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Post by BlackHoleMark on Nov 20, 2010 16:09:22 GMT -5
Can someone give me insight on the batman issue and batman Inc? I haven't gotten the batman comic in months for financial reasons, but I know Bruce is back? Can someone catch me up on this? So, I don't know how much you know, but here goes. So, it turns out when Darkseid killed Batman, he didn't really kill him, but sent him back in time. Bruce Wayne has spent the past couple months traveling through time regaining his memories and being put in various historical situations affected by the myth of the Bat. He's back now. Dick is going to remain as Batman in Gotham City, and Bruce has come out and told the the public that he has been funding Batman for years and now will be taking the concept worldwide. He'll be training Batmen throughout the world. I got all the relevant comics (minus Batman and Robin) yesterday at my comic store, I'll probably drop a blurb about them when I finish them. It's a very Grant Morrison thing. On paper, it sounds like a terrible idea, but it could work. When Return of Bruce Wayne was first announced, some people HATED it, but I really liked it, so, we'll see. |
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MasonK565
El Dandy
Biggest Damian Wayne fan on FAN.
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Post by MasonK565 on Nov 20, 2010 16:57:52 GMT -5
I knew about the Bruce death thing and all that, but the Batman Inc is what I didn't know. Thanks!
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Nov 21, 2010 12:34:07 GMT -5
It's a terrible idea really. Batmen? Really?
I still say in a few years we'll see an Armour Wars style storyline when Bruce shuts everyone down
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 21, 2010 12:58:13 GMT -5
Avengers 7 is an interesting book. On the one hand, I love that the Infinity Gems are back. On the other hand, Bendis has already contradicted both the Illuminati book and classic Gem lore. DAMMIT! After Illuminati, I was hoping they'd realize "Hmm. That was a horrible use of the Infinity Gems. They just went out and got them like they were picking up their dry-cleaning. Let's leave them to DnA from now on..." Someone really needs to strap Bendis to a chair and make him read "The Thanos Quest", Clockwork Orange-style. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2010 14:24:04 GMT -5
I'm still not totally sold on the Batmen concept, but if it continues like the first Batman Inc issue I've got no problem. I absolutely loved it, the flirty Batman-Catwoman to and throw, the art, the standard Morrison high concepts. It wasn't quite as good as Batman & Robin #1, but hopefull it'll be able to keep it up.
And to be honest, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the Inc concept. Everyone knows one day it'll be retconned or closed down and Bruce will be back in Gotham, but right now the stories are exciting, I still get to read Dick/Damien stories and it allows the character to develop new narratives, while still able to retain more traditional Batman awesomeness. I'm having fun reading these comics and wondering what will happen next and that as much as anything else is why I read comics.
I'm really not enjoying Bendis' Avengers though, which is disappointing as for the most part I actually really liked his pre-Seige New Avengers book. Its just bland cosmic stuff and when you compare it to the ridiculously awesome Thanos Imperative, it really shows its flaws.
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Post by BlackHoleMark on Nov 21, 2010 17:12:53 GMT -5
It's a terrible idea really. Batmen? Really? I still say in a few years we'll see an Armour Wars style storyline when Bruce shuts everyone down Here's the thing. Comic book sales across the board are slipping. It's a cheap ploy, but big events like this drive sales. There's only so many sales you are going to get with a deluge of monthly Batman comics that are just "Batman solves a crime, Batman fights a guy, etc." Big events not only drive comic book people to buy things, but also many times are discussed in mainstream media, driving people who would not otherwise buy comics to check it out. Even if they get just a few new customers, it's worth it. And I must say, at least it's something. I've been reading all my Batman comics (#400 up to present day) in anticipation of the new direction, and I have to say, even if this idea flops terribly (which I don't think it will even if it doesn't succeed), it is no worse than half assed one-offs that are so boring and seem to dominate the Batman line from time to time. Batman has more or less been the same exact way for 70 years. Change can be good, even if it seems like such a radical departure. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 21, 2010 18:14:09 GMT -5
The rest of the post is well thought out and argues your opinion really well ( I personally think the Batmen is a dopey idea, but then the Skittles rainbow of Lanterns I think is a dumb concept too and people seem to dig that), but the above quote just ain't true. Thirties Batman is vastly different from Fifties Batman who's different than Seventies Batman and so on.
While the character hasn't changed THAT much at his core since say the late seventies ( though of course tweaked here and there after Dark Knight Returns et al), he's quite a bit different than the character that would kill with no thought at all in his original adventures and WAAAAAAAY different than the goofy, smiley, weird sci-fi tales of the sixties.
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Post by BlackHoleMark on Nov 21, 2010 21:40:25 GMT -5
The rest of the post is well thought out and argues your opinion really well ( I personally think the Batmen is a dopey idea, but then the Skittles rainbow of Lanterns I think is a dumb concept too and people seem to dig that), but the above quote just ain't true. Thirties Batman is vastly different from Fifties Batman who's different than Seventies Batman and so on. While the character hasn't changed THAT much at his core since say the late seventies ( though of course tweaked here and there after Dark Knight Returns et al), he's quite a bit different than the character that would kill with no thought at all in his original adventures and WAAAAAAAY different than the goofy, smiley, weird sci-fi tales of the sixties. Sorry, I should say the format of Batman has been the same for 70 years, not Batman himself. Yes, they had aliens and now they don't and villains come and go, but the format is the same. Batman finds out about a crime, goes out, fights a villain, stuff happens, villain is defeated, next arc. Even other huge events (thinking mostly of Knightfall here) didn't really change the "system" of Batman. When Jean Paul was Batman, he followed the same system. He would go out and fight a guy, beat him, and move on to the next guy. His dilemmas and issues were different, but the format was the same. Batman Inc. is unlike anything that has been done in a Batman comic. |
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Nov 22, 2010 11:30:36 GMT -5
Batman has survived this long for a reason.
The formula works, and, if anything, a big part of Batman is that mystique and that intimidation thing he has going on. Something about turning that into a franchise, for me, it kinda cheapens the whole point of Batman.
If anyone can be Batman, what makes Bruce so special? If anyone can be Batman, what makes Dick so special?
Why care about those characters when anyone can just step in and replace them because anyone can contact Wayne and apply to be an International Batman.
It doesnt ring right with me, but I may be wrong, it may be the best thing ever and change my mind. If I stick with it.
Gotta say though, DC is fast becoming WWF circa 1997 - Batman Inc, Flash Force, GLC, JLA, JSAx2 - Faction Wars time!
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 22, 2010 12:00:45 GMT -5
Batman has survived this long for a reason. The formula works, and, if anything, a big part of Batman is that mystique and that intimidation thing he has going on. Something about turning that into a franchise, for me, it kinda cheapens the whole point of Batman. If anyone can be Batman, what makes Bruce so special? If anyone can be Batman, what makes Dick so special? Why care about those characters when anyone can just step in and replace them because anyone can contact Wayne and apply to be an International Batman. It doesnt ring right with me, but I may be wrong, it may be the best thing ever and change my mind. If I stick with it. Gotta say though, DC is fast becoming WWF circa 1997 - Batman Inc, Flash Force, GLC, JLA, JSAx2 - Faction Wars time! Basically. I mean, it kind of works with The Green Lantern. Their whole point is to kind of be a Galactic Police Force kind of deal. Batman, though, has always been portrayed as the "one man army" kind of archetype. Now, with there being a ton of Batmen, it kinda kills the mystique for me. But, then again, I'm sure it's just a way to let Grant Morrison make a bunch of Silver Age references, since it seems like that's what he's best at as a writer. |
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 14:27:40 GMT -5
what's the big deal with Batmen? Why is hated so much? I think it's an interesting and original take that could lead to something really cool, like ra's al ghul killing them.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 22, 2010 14:30:05 GMT -5
what's the big deal with Batmen? Why is hated so much? I think it's an interesting and original take that could lead to something really cool, like ra's al ghul killing them. Again, part of the appeal of Batman is that he's unique. If everyone's Batman, then all of a sudden, the REAL Batman doesn't look so special anymore. He looks.....well, like a normal guy in a bat costume. |
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 16:12:17 GMT -5
what's the big deal with Batmen? Why is hated so much? I think it's an interesting and original take that could lead to something really cool, like ra's al ghul killing them. Again, part of the appeal of Batman is that he's unique. If everyone's Batman, then all of a sudden, the REAL Batman doesn't look so special anymore. He looks.....well, like a normal guy in a bat costume. I get this, and I must admit I have not read it so I am a bit uninformed but it seems to me PLEASE CORRECT me if I am WRONG. But from my perspective he isn't picking regular joes off the street to do this. he has to be using people trained as he is? |
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 16:54:48 GMT -5
If the story is anything like Batman Beyond I think I will love it.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Nov 22, 2010 17:06:36 GMT -5
It doesnt really matter who he is picking, or how trained they are, it's just the fact that they are going to have lots of Batmen, Batgirls and all the rest running around.
Batman is one guy, at a push I'd have gone for two (although frankly, Id actually have preferred to se Nightwing back, as I preferred Dick as Nightwing) but when you have loads, no matter how well trained they are or how good they might be, Batman stops being as important or mysterious or imposing as he is meant to be.
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 18:01:11 GMT -5
It doesnt really matter who he is picking, or how trained they are, it's just the fact that they are going to have lots of Batmen, Batgirls and all the rest running around. Batman is one guy, at a push I'd have gone for two (although frankly, Id actually have preferred to se Nightwing back, as I preferred Dick as Nightwing) but when you have loads, no matter how well trained they are or how good they might be, Batman stops being as important or mysterious or imposing as he is meant to be. What if it plays for a much bigger picture? |
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Legion
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Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Nov 22, 2010 18:06:45 GMT -5
You've still damaged, imo and ironically, the Bat brand by having others be Batmen even in the short term
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 18:18:02 GMT -5
So do you feel the same about Batman Knightfall? When Bane put batman on the sidelines and Jean-Paul Valley took the job?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 22, 2010 18:30:18 GMT -5
You've still damaged, imo and ironically, the Bat brand by having others be Batmen even in the short term because Green Lantern and Flash were hurt so badly by all those years where Kyle Rayner and Wally West wore the outfits [/Dan Didio] [/Alex Ross] |
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Post by spartan on Nov 22, 2010 20:43:43 GMT -5
You've still damaged, imo and ironically, the Bat brand by having others be Batmen even in the short term because Green Lantern and Flash were hurt so badly by all those years where Kyle Rayner and Wally West wore the outfits [/Dan Didio] [/Alex Ross] Is this sarcasm cause I have always liked Wally as The Flash, I just assumed it was a popular character |
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