IWC opinions you disagree with

[molson5]

I hate the exagerated cynical stuff about the WWE:

-it's the worst promotion ever
-everything was better in the past
-Vince hates wrestling
-Vince only pushes "roided up hosses who can't work"
-Vince only pushes guys he creates
-Vince only started ECW to stop the chants
-Vince is responsible for wrestlers living unhealthy lifestyles

I don't even think this is a "IWC board", but I would consider those IWC opinions, at least in the gutters of the IWC (i.e. most wrestling message boards, youtube comments).

[fw91]

"Michael Cole is terrible and ruins tv shows"

[Been burned too many times]

Mar 8, 2012 19:01:58 GMT -5 fw91 said:

"Michael Cole is terrible and ruins tv shows"

Agreed!

The idea that the Rock is a sellout, hates wrestling, etc.

The idea that Cena is the cause of everything wrong with the company. "The attitude era was the best, Cena ruined everything and made it PG!"

[rapidfire187]

Mar 8, 2012 18:55:49 GMT -5 molson5 said:

-Vince only started ECW to stop the chants

I kind of wonder about that one. You have to admit, that would make a f*** ton of sense. He certainly didn't start the ECW brand to make money, and if he did, he failed miserably.

[fw91]

Mar 8, 2012 18:55:49 GMT -5 molson5 said:

I hate the exagerated cynical stuff about the WWE:

-it's the worst promotion ever
-everything was better in the past
-Vince hates wrestling
-Vince only pushes "roided up hosses who can't work"
-Vince only pushes guys he creates
-Vince only started ECW to stop the chants
-Vince is responsible for wrestlers living unhealthy lifestyles

I don't even think this is a "IWC board", but I would consider those IWC opinions, at least in the gutters of the IWC (i.e. most wrestling message boards, youtube comments).

well the last one is not really iwc, but dicks like mushnick

[wildojinx]

All the hate for Shawn Michaels. There are people who STILL hate him for not jobbing to vader, for his "lost my smile" stuff, for screwing bret,etc. When it comes to bret, he and shawn have long since buried the hatchet (hopefully bret will edit the line about never apologizing to shawn out of future copies of his book), and didnt vader put over shawn in a recent interview (which probably means theres no real heat between them either).

[bigbadbull]

Mar 8, 2012 18:47:42 GMT -5 xCompackx said:

I seriously don't get the idea that Triple H "buries" people. He got beat clean by Batista at WM 21, John Cena at 22 and less than cleanly by Randy Orton at 24. In fact he lost 3 times in a row to Batista. How is that "burying" anyone?

You still don't get it?

[Doctor Of Style]

That in-ring ability is much more important than mic skills, charisma and presence.

[kidkamikaze10]

That in-ring ability = athleticism and not-botching.

But the women's wrestling ones (sucks, can't draw, doesn't matter, shouldn't exist) are the biggest things for me. Even more so than minority wrestlers one: that they have just as much opportunities as their white counterparts. (and no, I don't mean primarily black people, though you could make a great case for black women. Has any Asian talent other than sideshows acts like Khali, made it in the US side of the industry?).

It's just that it isn't just a IWC thing, it's an industry wide problem.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2012 17:01:36 GMT -5 showster22 said:

I'll start this off

Golldberg was a Failure in the WWE. I dont get this. He shows up the day after WM to a big pop. He beats the rock in his first match with the company (He did it clean to mind you) He beats Jericho, suffers his first loss in the elimination chamber, but cmoes back and beats Trips 2 times in one on one matches. he loses the title in dec in a triple threat (which I'm coll with because hes better chasing the title then holding it) fews with lesner (He wins there too) and left the company

Now how does beating every top guy on raw = failure.
and dont give me that stupid wig excuse because its not like he put it on himself and danced around in it.

Because in wrestling, winning isn't everything. It was a completely underwhelming run, in terms of quality. He didn't get the belt at the right time, and he went out with a whimper. Plus, he only lasted a year. This is a guy that a few years prior was one of the top 3 stars in wrestling, and he has fans turn on him and peaces out after one year.

Its not who he lost to or what he wore on his head, it was just a ho-hum, uneventful, short run.




I disagree with the usual "all WWE wrestlers are bland and only do 5 moves" talk, which is usually in defense of Miz or some other maligned in-ring performer. Its what you do before the 5 moves that matters, some guys keep the match popping with creative exchanges and psychology, while some just beat the other guy up slowly for 10 minutes.

[showster22]

Mar 8, 2012 22:49:12 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Mar 8, 2012 17:01:36 GMT -5 showster22 said:

I'll start this off

Golldberg was a Failure in the WWE. I dont get this. He shows up the day after WM to a big pop. He beats the rock in his first match with the company (He did it clean to mind you) He beats Jericho, suffers his first loss in the elimination chamber, but cmoes back and beats Trips 2 times in one on one matches. he loses the title in dec in a triple threat (which I'm coll with because hes better chasing the title then holding it) fews with lesner (He wins there too) and left the company

Now how does beating every top guy on raw = failure.
and dont give me that stupid wig excuse because its not like he put it on himself and danced around in it.

Because in wrestling, winning isn't everything. It was a completely underwhelming run, in terms of quality. He didn't get the belt at the right time, and he went out with a whimper. Plus, he only lasted a year. This is a guy that a few years prior was one of the top 3 stars in wrestling, and he has fans turn on him and peaces out after one year.

Its not who he lost to or what he wore on his head, it was just a ho-hum, uneventful, short run.




I disagree with the usual "all WWE wrestlers are bland and only do 5 moves" talk, which is usually in defense of Miz or some other maligned in-ring performer. Its what you do before the 5 moves that matters, some guys keep the match popping with creative exchanges and psychology, while some just beat the other guy up slowly for 10 minutes.

Can you explain what you mean by not gettint the belt at the right time ? as I see it maybe he could have won the elimination chamber but other then that I don't see a problem with when he got the belt. Unless you mean you think he should have got it right at the start of his run ( I disagree with this too)

And as for him leaving. they droped the ball not having him in the last few weeks but I think it was Bill who didnt want to resign

[Cam]

Most of them.

[rapidfire187]

Mar 8, 2012 20:09:30 GMT -5 kidkamikaze10 said:

That in-ring ability = athleticism and not-botching.

But the women's wrestling ones (sucks, can't draw, doesn't matter, shouldn't exist) are the biggest things for me. Even more so than minority wrestlers one: that they have just as much opportunities as their white counterparts. (and no, I don't mean primarily black people, though you could make a great case for black women. Has any Asian talent other than sideshows acts like Khali, made it in the US side of the industry?).

It's just that it isn't just a IWC thing, it's an industry wide problem.

Depends on what you mean by success, but Khali is far from the only one. The Great Muta probably had the most successful run in the US out of every Japanese wrestler that's tried it, just never worked for WWE. TAKA had a nice run with WWE. Taijiri had a fantastic run with WWE and ECW. Funaki had a very long but uneventful WWE career. KENTA had a lot of high profile matches in ROH, and Kobashi and Misawa both got royal treatment for their sole US appearances in ROH.

Not saying that WWE has a good track record with pushing Asian wrestlers, far from it, but Khali is definitely not the only one to have success in the US.

[Beartato]

That any random jobber is instantly awesome and deserves a shot. Some definitely do, but most of them don't.

[Allie Kitsune]

There's no doubt that Tajiri had a great run.

They mishandled Ultimo Dragon pretty badly (though he still got to work Mania at MSG like he wanted to), and if we're counting Middle Easterners (and people of Middle Eastern heritage), then no, Daivari didn't really do all that much either.

But that leads to something else.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that by and large, there's been an internet stereotype that Black Wrestlers can't "work". Every now and then, you get the supposed "rule-proving exception" in a Shelton Benjamin or a Jay Lethal, but I still get the feeling there's a stereotype that they're awkward hosses like Ahmed Johnson, Bobby Lashley, or Ezekiel Jackson; or just otherwise unremarkable brawlers like Stevie Ray, Faarooq, or Godfather Shango. Or worse yet, that they're completely useless, like Virgil.

Booker and Rock (even if he claims to be more draft horse than black these days) made it to the top, but I don't know if anyone would say they were great "workers" either.

The industry needs a black Bret Hart to break that stereotype for good.

[Deleted]

Mar 9, 2012 9:57:05 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

There's no doubt that Tajiri had a great run.

They mishandled Ultimo Dragon pretty badly (though he still got to work Mania at MSG like he wanted to), and if we're counting Middle Easterners (and people of Middle Eastern heritage), then no, Daivari didn't really do all that much either.

But that leads to something else.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that by and large, there's been an internet stereotype that Black Wrestlers can't "work". Every now and then, you get the supposed "rule-proving exception" in a Shelton Benjamin or a Jay Lethal, but I still get the feeling there's a stereotype that they're awkward hosses like Ahmed Johnson, Bobby Lashley, or Ezekiel Jackson; or just otherwise unremarkable brawlers like Stevie Ray, Faarooq, or Godfather Shango. Or worse yet, that they're completely useless, like Virgil.

Booker and Rock (even if he claims to be more draft horse than black these days) made it to the top, but I don't know if anyone would say they were great "workers" either.

The industry needs a black Bret Hart to break that stereotype for good.

I have never come anywhere close to seeing this stereotype. Ron Simmons, Booker T, Shelton Benjamin, Kofi Kingston, Kenny King, all damn good, and get credit for it. The simple fact of the matter is this: there aren't as many black wrestlers as white wrestlers. Black people make up 12% of the population in the US, and they're even more of a minority in wrestling. So, of course there are going to be less of them that are in prominent positions, and in position to be called great workers.

[Chip Jordan]

I sometimes feel like standing up and saying “I’m a twenty-seven year old heterosexual male and I like Rey Mysterio”. People who say someone so small can’t convincingly hang with main-eventers should be forced to watch his match with The Undertaker at 2010 Royal Rumble.

And if they still don’t agree they should be forced to watch Mickie James vs Michelle McCool from 2010 Royal Rumble as punishment.

[Allison Reynolds]

Lately I am disagreeing with the reasons people are hating The Miz for, I just don't think he deserves it. I don't even like the Miz.

[Allie Kitsune]

Mar 9, 2012 11:00:00 GMT -5 Chip Jordan said:

I sometimes feel like standing up and saying “I’m a twenty-seven year old heterosexual male and I like Rey Mysterio”. People who say someone so small can’t convincingly hang with main-eventers should be forced to watch his match with The Undertaker at 2010 Royal Rumble.

And if they still don’t agree they should be forced to watch Mickie James vs Michelle McCool from 2010 Royal Rumble as punishment.

I don't think that it's so much Rey's size as it is that his moveset is kind of contrived, and his knees are made up of glass dust (and would blow away in a strong breeze).

It's not that he can't hurt a main eventer. Those knee braces he uses are lethal weapons.

[Hit Girl]

"WWE only pushes roided guys" - No, they don't. The two current world champions prove this.

"Chris Benoit should be in the Hall Of Fame" - No, he's a murderer. That alone overshadows all his wrestling accomplishments.

"John Cena sucks" - No, he doesn't. He's exactly the kind of top guy that WWE needs.