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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 22, 2012 14:40:33 GMT -5
After reading this thread completely all I got to say is "Never change, FAN. Never change."
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Post by norsisclouds on Apr 22, 2012 14:49:11 GMT -5
They'd be right though. And to be honest, it's not as if any of the girls in WWE right now are fantastic(yes, this includes Beth) There's quite a bit of people in the WWE locker room that would disagree with you on that. Two examples being Punk and JR. Specifically when it comes to Natalya, who is widely considered the best wrestler in the diva roster. And yes, there is a gap in terms of athleticism, wrestling knowledge, and experience between Natalya and the rest of the roster, including Beth. I mean, believe what you want to believe, but I've watched the vast majority of the divas roster in the E, at FCW, and for those who worked outside of the E, in the Indies. And Natalya has worked way better matches than any of the others. Again, including Beth, AJ, Naomi, and the other divas who are considered "upper tier" by fans (wait, I think that's it). Back to the situation. AJ caught her off guard. And scrapped her face at that (honestly, I think if they had played up the blood aspect the angle would have been sold much better). Sure, it doesn't make Natalya look good, but the point was made: AJ is off her rocker. And not in a productive, title push way. If I were booking this, I'd have Natalya beat her in a rematch, and try to help her move on from DB. To your first point, exactly. I've even heard Beth say that Natalya is better than her and better than most of the men when it comes to technical wrestling, and I think that people in the back know this. Natalya even talked about Triple H being one of her big fans and taking the time to work with her and suggesting she do the double sharpshooter. I have nothing against AJ I just find it interesting that people are starting to talk down Natalya's talent because they like someone else better... Natalya is the best female wrestler on the roster, period. You can't compare her experience level and skill to any of the women on the roster really--the last person that might be comparable to her in the last ten years is Molly Holly, but Natalya even has better technical wrestling skill than she did. Honestly, I can see why people might think the gap isn't that big if they've never seen her other work, or they just go by what they see in the tag matches, but even then you could go back and watch that Superstars match between her, Eve, Beth and Tamina from about a month and a half ago where she outclasses them all in less than a minute of time. I'm glad that she's happy with her job because I always think that must be really frustrating to have so much talent and not be able to show it. Anyway, I think AJ will probably heel turn to be with Bryan--but I don't think the writers know what to do with Natalya yet. Her character seems a bit...caught in a grey area. On Superstars or NXT she's a face, that sometimes turns into a heel, and on Smackdown she's just confused. |
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Post by Kitty Shamrocks on Apr 22, 2012 15:11:19 GMT -5
"You guys are biased! You like one wrestler more than another!"
Uh, no shit? I'm gonna go ahead and say some of the detractors of AJ are actually, wait for it, BIASED!!! against AJ, because they like A DIFFERENT WRESTLER MORE.
Man, what a crazy world we live in.
(I haven't watched the segment, nor do I really care since the Diva's division bores me to hell, but god, what a dumb argument this is. I'm glad I was able to be part of it)
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 22, 2012 15:21:33 GMT -5
As the guy that pretty well downgraded Nattie, I should say that I actually PREFER her to AJ. My opinion on either of their skill has zero to do with me liking AJ more. I don't, I actually like Nattie better.. but that said, I don't think either is that great; which is what I'm saying.
I'll even concede the point that she probably is the best woman on the roster, all I'm saying is that that's really not saying much when most of 'em suck, and Nattie's decent; hence my "she's not that good" thing. She's ok, sure, she's better than the others, sure too, but again it's not like some massive chasm between any of the women, top to bottom. I'm not just talking ring skills either, I mean the entire package of what it takes to be a wrestler, it's far more the all the moves ya know of course.
The argument of who's better though, no matter what side of the fence you're on- Pro Nattie, Pro AJ, or me just fairly apathetic to either is moot anyway really when it's all kayfabe anyhow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 16:17:44 GMT -5
They'd be right though. And to be honest, it's not as if any of the girls in WWE right now are fantastic(yes, this includes Beth) There's quite a bit of people in the WWE locker room that would disagree with you on that. Two examples being Punk and JR. Why should that matter? Depending on the subject of discussion, what's good to them and what's good to someone else can be exactly the same or totally different. |
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Post by norsisclouds on Apr 22, 2012 16:38:21 GMT -5
Liking someone better sure. Of course this is wrestling--but there are opinions on who you like better, and there are facts about who is a better wrestler. I wouldn't say that Hurricane was a better wrestler than Chris Benoit for example.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 22, 2012 16:41:50 GMT -5
There's quite a bit of people in the WWE locker room that would disagree with you on that. Two examples being Punk and JR. Why should that matter? Depending on the subject of discussion, what's good to them and what's good to someone else can be exactly the same or totally different. Hence the word "disagree" in there. Notice how that's different from "They'd be right" and "Let's be honest here" like it's absolute fact. Also gotta say, I absolutely love that once again accusations of bias and blind hate are being thrown around despite people giving reasons for their opinions. You gotta wonder who are the ones who are actually biased here. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Apr 22, 2012 16:48:20 GMT -5
Liking someone better sure. Of course this is wrestling--but there are opinions on who you like better, and there are facts about who is a better wrestler. I wouldn't say that Hurricane was a better wrestler than Chris Benoit for example. And what proof do you have of Natalya being a better wrestler than AJ? I'm not saying she isn't, but AJ's wrestled literally one match longer than 2 minutes since being called up and that was a Superstars match against Tamina where she got her ass kicked for a few minutes before hitting a couple of moves and a finisher to beat her. Hell I personally think Natalya gets a lot of slack only because of her last name. If she wasn't a Hart, I don't think she'd get near as much praise as she does. |
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,185 
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 22, 2012 16:49:33 GMT -5
Honestly. I can believe it because adrenaline does things to people to allow them to pull off things they couldn't do before.
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PKO
King Koopa
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Post by PKO on Apr 22, 2012 16:52:40 GMT -5
Also gotta say, I absolutely love that once again accusations of bias and blind hate are being thrown around despite people giving reasons for their opinions. You gotta wonder who are the ones who are actually biased here. If that thread wasn't made in response to this one, it's worth pointing out to several people in this thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 16:59:42 GMT -5
Liking someone better sure. Of course this is wrestling--but there are opinions on who you like better, and there are facts about who is a better wrestler. I wouldn't say that Hurricane was a better wrestler than Chris Benoit for example. I was talking more about differing opinions on a particular wrestler. One fan's choice for best technical wrestler is probably another fan's choice for most overrated technical wrestler. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 17:07:50 GMT -5
Why should that matter? Depending on the subject of discussion, what's good to them and what's good to someone else can be exactly the same or totally different. Hence the word "disagree" in there. Notice how that's different from "They'd be right" and "Let's be honest here" like it's absolute fact. Yeah, I know. I was just questioning why JR and Punk's opinions of Natalya were even brought into the discussion. |
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,706
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 22, 2012 17:10:32 GMT -5
Also gotta say, I absolutely love that once again accusations of bias and blind hate are being thrown around despite people giving reasons for their opinions. You gotta wonder who are the ones who are actually biased here. If that thread wasn't made in response to this one, it's worth pointing out to several people in this thread. I loved that thread. And sadly, it's pretty much exactly how some act here.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 17:13:15 GMT -5
"You guys are biased! You like one wrestler more than another!" Uh, no s***? I'm gonna go ahead and say some of the detractors of AJ are actually, wait for it, BIASED!!! against AJ, because they like A DIFFERENT WRESTLER MORE. Man, what a crazy world we live in. (I haven't watched the segment, nor do I really care since the Diva's division bores me to hell, but god, what a dumb argument this is. I'm glad I was able to be part of it) *Reaching into my big bag of internet message board comebacks* YOU'RE A DUMB ARGUMENT!!!Sorry, I didn't mean to be so ruthless and attack you personally  Mods I beg of you not to close this exciting thread. Your condescending reply to this wonderful topic aside, I'll throw in my two cents on the matter of bias. Favoritism is a fact of life, I understand and accept that. The part that causes me mild annoyance is when people can't set their allegiance aside and look at something objectively. I like to call a spade a spade regardless of who I'm riding with, but not everyone does this and I realize it is unfair to assume they will...so the whole fireman vs a volcano act is usually invoked... I like AJ. Obviously not as much as others around the net, but I do like her. It's just that when I saw the segment before it aired here in America, I thought "That was pretty wack. I wonder if the mythical IWC will feel the same way...". So when I saw this topic yesterday morning I thought cool, I'm not alone. Then, I scroll down the first page and see "Eh, it's no big deal. I don't see the problem. She caught her by surprise" etc and was like hubba wha? So in my half-awake state, I decided to bring up the Kelly Kelly thing since it was similar in nature and I honestly wanted to know if someone could at least set their personal bias aside, and explain what made Kelly Kelly's deal so bad and why this was being considered to be "one of the best pieces of dramatic work in the division". I mean to be fair, Kelly was also angry and caught Beth by surprise so it shouldn't have been a big deal either right? |
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,706
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 22, 2012 17:32:31 GMT -5
"You guys are biased! You like one wrestler more than another!" Uh, no s***? I'm gonna go ahead and say some of the detractors of AJ are actually, wait for it, BIASED!!! against AJ, because they like A DIFFERENT WRESTLER MORE. Man, what a crazy world we live in. (I haven't watched the segment, nor do I really care since the Diva's division bores me to hell, but god, what a dumb argument this is. I'm glad I was able to be part of it) *Reaching into my big bag of internet message board comebacks* YOU'RE A DUMB ARGUMENT!!!Sorry, I didn't mean to be so ruthless and attack you personally Mods I beg of you not to close this exciting thread. Your condescending reply to this wonderful topic aside, I'll throw in my two cents on the matter of bias. Favoritism is a fact of life, I understand and accept that. The part that causes me mild annoyance is when people can't set their allegiance aside and look at something objectively. I like to call a spade a spade regardless of who I'm riding with, but not everyone does this and I realize it is unfair to assume they will...so the whole fireman vs a volcano act is usually invoked... I like AJ. Obviously not as much as others around the net, but I do like her. It's just that when I saw the segment before it aired here in America, I thought "That was pretty wack. I wonder if the mythical IWC will feel the same way...". So when I saw this topic yesterday morning I thought cool, I'm not alone. Then, I scroll down the first page and see "Eh, it's no big deal. I don't see the problem. She caught her by surprise" etc and was like hubba wha? So in my half-awake state, I decided to bring up the Kelly Kelly thing since it was similar in nature and I honestly wanted to know if someone could at least set their personal bias aside, and explain what made Kelly Kelly's deal so bad and why this was being considered to be "one of the best pieces of dramatic work in the division". I mean to be fair, Kelly was also angry and caught Beth by surprise so it shouldn't have been a big deal either right? Really, the difference for me lies in not AJ/Kelly but Natalya/Divas of Doom. Natalya to me wasn't taking an agressive stance at all, and even after being wailed on had a look of "wtf? I was just trying to help" to her. DoD were making it their mission to destroy K2, so you'd think they'd have SOME fight in them. Maybe I need to watch them side by side, but that's how I remember it. |
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HBL
Unicron
This is what yoga does to you.
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Post by HBL on Apr 22, 2012 17:47:18 GMT -5
I can't read it all and I have no idea why it's nine pages but it's WWE,and it isn't supposed to make sense.
My job here is done.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Apr 22, 2012 17:51:41 GMT -5
Also gotta say, I absolutely love that once again accusations of bias and blind hate are being thrown around despite people giving reasons for their opinions. You gotta wonder who are the ones who are actually biased here. If that thread wasn't made in response to this one, it's worth pointing out to several people in this thread. This is why this thread is so long, haha. I think people are just trolling now, because people articulate reasons, and then people respond with points that were just refuted. And then people start smashing their heads against their computers and repeating themselves. |
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,185
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 22, 2012 17:54:58 GMT -5
I can't read it all and I have no idea why it's nine pages but it's WWE,and it isn't supposed to make sense. Bye! No. What's been happening is that people have given actual responses to why it might make sense(Adrenaline, emotions etc.) and the people decided that they will just ignore that and keep arguing hoping to just to get a rise out of people. Seriously, what else can it boil down to when people have given actual, logical explanations to this and people just continue to ignore it and bring up stuff that has nothing to do with that angle to call people biased. |
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Post by molson5 on Apr 22, 2012 18:49:05 GMT -5
I can't read it all and I have no idea why it's nine pages but it's WWE,and it isn't supposed to make sense. Bye! No. What's been happening is that people have given actual responses to why it might make sense(Adrenaline, emotions etc.) and the people decided that they will just ignore that and keep arguing hoping to just to get a rise out of people. Seriously, what else can it boil down to when people have given actual, logical explanations to this and people just continue to ignore it and bring up stuff that has nothing to do with that angle to call people biased. I'll tell you what its, it's love. There's certain characters people just develop huge crushes on - Zack Ryder, Natalia to name two, and when you get that special feeling, you're just seeing things from a very different place than anyone else - especially differently than the WWE. And hey, crushes are great, everyone has their fans, that's part of the fun of it. I think you just have to understand that not everyone shares the crush, least of all WWE management. If you're not particularly into Natalya, seeing her beat down by someone who is currently part of a main event angle seems, well, like traditional good booking. |
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Apr 22, 2012 18:55:29 GMT -5
There's this thing called "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." That's what I was going to say. |
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Mods I beg of you not to close this exciting thread.
