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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Jan 1, 2012 12:31:42 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesn't want the next series to be more fantasy oriented? I mean yeah it'd be cool to see Batman fighting Killer Croc, but I like the whole police drama aspect of it.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 1, 2012 12:42:59 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesn't want the next series to be more fantasy oriented? I mean yeah it'd be cool to see Batman fighting Killer Croc, but I like the whole police drama aspect of it. They could easily find a middle ground. Nolan himself probably could have if he'd tried, but he clearly wasn't interested in doing it that way. I'd just a like a bit more......comic in my comic book movie. When the trailer hit for this new film, it was like'sigh' another action movie that Batman just happens to be in. It didn't get me near half as excited as the trailer for Avengers did.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Jan 1, 2012 13:24:16 GMT -5
I was a little skeptical about Heath Ledger portraying Joker at first. Not because of "Brokeback Mountain," but because I could not picture this pretty boy who starred in "10 Things I Hate About You" and "A Knight's Tale" as The Joker himself. When I saw the images, I was like "Okay, a different look than I would have pictured." Initially, people all thought of this:
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 1, 2012 13:33:50 GMT -5
When the trailer hit for this new film, it was like'sigh' another action movie that Batman just happens to be in. To be fair, you could say the same about the earlier, more fantasy-oriented Batman films. Batman Returns is pretty much just a typical Tim Burton movie that just happens to have Batman in it.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 1, 2012 14:07:50 GMT -5
When the trailer hit for this new film, it was like'sigh' another action movie that Batman just happens to be in. To be fair, you could say the same about the earlier, more fantasy-oriented Batman films. Batman Returns is pretty much just a typical Tim Burton movie that just happens to have Batman in it. Not really, Catwoman and Penguin are integral parts of that film, and while yes it is clearly a Burton film, it is also clearly a Batman film
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 1, 2012 15:27:16 GMT -5
I remember people doing nothing but complaining about Ledger's Joker after some of his "makeup test" pictures started showing up on the internet. I personally didn't care, I'm always open to new interpretations on characters like that, but there was definitely a backlash.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 1, 2012 15:35:06 GMT -5
To be fair, you could say the same about the earlier, more fantasy-oriented Batman films. Batman Returns is pretty much just a typical Tim Burton movie that just happens to have Batman in it. Not really, Catwoman and Penguin are integral parts of that film, and while yes it is clearly a Burton film, it is also clearly a Batman film They were absolutely nothing like the characters in the comics either. Plus, Ras Al-Ghul was an integral part of the first movie, and The Joker/Dent were integral parts of the second movie. I'm not seeing how these movies are not clearly Batman films, but Burton's are.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 1, 2012 16:08:46 GMT -5
Not really, Catwoman and Penguin are integral parts of that film, and while yes it is clearly a Burton film, it is also clearly a Batman film They were absolutely nothing like the characters in the comics either. Plus, Ras Al-Ghul was an integral part of the first movie, and The Joker/Dent were integral parts of the second movie. I'm not seeing how these movies are not clearly Batman films, but Burton's are. They felt more like watching a comic book. Nolan's films do not feel like watching a comic book because he goes in for the realism like stuff. While Burton's Penguin was a sort of mutant penguinoid man, he was undoubtedly a comic book character. Joker, Ras and now Bane seem to have had a lot of their 'comic bookness' taken away and what remains, while making for entertaining films, does not leave me with a comic book film, it leaves me with an action movie that happens to star Batman.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 1, 2012 16:20:57 GMT -5
They were absolutely nothing like the characters in the comics either. Plus, Ras Al-Ghul was an integral part of the first movie, and The Joker/Dent were integral parts of the second movie. I'm not seeing how these movies are not clearly Batman films, but Burton's are. They felt more like watching a comic book. Nolan's films do not feel like watching a comic book because he goes in for the realism like stuff. While Burton's Penguin was a sort of mutant penguinoid man, he was undoubtedly a comic book character. Joker, Ras and now Bane seem to have had a lot of their 'comic bookness' taken away and what remains, while making for entertaining films, does not leave me with a comic book film, it leaves me with an action movie that happens to star Batman. I wouldn't equate the gothic opera stuff that Burton always does with a comic book feeling. Penguin didn't really feel like a comic character, he was just a deformed terrorist that played off of Christopher Walken. Joker and Ras were A LOT more like their comic characters than Penguin was, and just because Nolan has gone for realism doesn't remove the comic feel of it. I just don't get that complaint, the movies don't have to be completely unrealistic just to have a comic book feeling.
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Post by Cela on Jan 1, 2012 16:38:58 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesn't want the next series to be more fantasy oriented? I mean yeah it'd be cool to see Batman fighting Killer Croc, but I like the whole police drama aspect of it. I want a series that has the Nolan grit and care to it, but with the fantasy aspect. It is possible.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 1, 2012 16:39:52 GMT -5
You see the key words in both my post and yours was the personal pronouns.
I dont feel like Nolan has given me a comic book movie, and I don't feel his direction for Joker especially (not so much Ras, he was just missing his supernatural stuff) was all that comic book like. It was just a gangster with a Glasgow smile and an annoying lip smacking habit. It worked brilliantly in the film Nolan was making, but didn't feel like Joker to me at all (but frankly, unless they dress up Mark Hamill in Joker gear, it isn't going to).
At no point did I say it had to be completely unrealistic, just more fantastical. Nolan stripped out all the fantasy, but I certainly concede that Burton pumped almost too much in. What's needed is a balance.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 1, 2012 16:53:11 GMT -5
I can understand that, I just thought it was a great interpretation of The Joker that combined the darkest elements of the 80s and 90s views of him but without the Barbara Gordon rape. My favorite superhero movies are the ones that tend to be more realistic (Begins, The Dark Knight, Unbreakable, Kick-Ass) so I love the direction that Nolan took with Batman, but I'm open to something that's a slightly darker version of the animated series. The reboot should clearly have Clock King though, as Clock King wins everything.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 1, 2012 16:57:56 GMT -5
I prefer the realism. Action with no substance is a very boring thing...just look at the Schumacher movies.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 1, 2012 17:20:47 GMT -5
I'm on board with Legion mostly. I didn't think the Nolan movies stripped all the comic book feeling from it... but for me his movies all seemed to lack the elements that stand out most to me in a comic book movie. The grittiness stripped some of the awe that usually comes with comic book heroes, and to me the Nolan Batman movies lacked the moments like, say, Iron Man saving the village in Iron Man or Superman stopping the plane in Returns. It just felt like, in pursuit of realism, you lose some of the cool that comes from superhero movies. Even if you wanted to take a more realistic approach, I don't think you have to strip all the superhero aspects of the character (and yes, I know Batman isn't powered, but he's still a superhero).
It felt like the best parts of The Dark Knight don't involve him actually doing things, but involve the Joker doing things. The most heroic moment of the film is carried out by convicts and civilians, not the hero. Ultimately if you wanted me to point out anything Batman did that was just cool, like in other movies, I'd have a problem coming up with something. As a package, the film works for me (until the Two-Face arc, at least), but the title character doesn't do much that stands out to me. I don't have a problem with a realistic take, but in a way it did come off less as a comic book movie and more as Law and Order: Gotham City to me.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jan 1, 2012 17:33:56 GMT -5
i just remember Neil Gaiman posting on his twitter "i quite enjoyed the dark knight, i dont see an issue with heath's joker at all, i thought it was brilliantly written and more like the 90's joker" which of corse he then got bombed by people saying things like "YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT COMIC BOOKS!!!#!@$@#%@%%%!" Yes, Neil Gaiman knows nothing about comic books, especially ones aimed towards a more mature audience. It's not as if he did Sandman or anything.
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dav
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Post by dav on Jan 1, 2012 17:41:02 GMT -5
I can understand that, I just thought it was a great interpretation of The Joker that combined the darkest elements of the 80s and 90s views of him but without the Barbara Gordon rape.Wait, wait, what?
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 1, 2012 17:44:22 GMT -5
I can understand that, I just thought it was a great interpretation of The Joker that combined the darkest elements of the 80s and 90s views of him but without the Barbara Gordon rape.Wait, wait, what? I meant that The Joker in the movie had some dark elements, but not to that extent. Although I'm not really sure if she actually was raped in "The Killing Joke," but I just assumed so.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 1, 2012 17:54:58 GMT -5
She wasn't.
After he shot her, he stripped her and took photos and sent them to her dad.
Moore claims in his original script the Joker was actually going to rape Jim Gordon, but that got nixed as the editors at DC didn't want people thinking the Joker was gay
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 1, 2012 17:57:56 GMT -5
I meant that The Joker in the movie had some dark elements, but not to that extent. Although I'm not really sure if she actually was raped in "The Killing Joke," but I just assumed so. Unless I missed a lot when reading it, she was just shot.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 1, 2012 18:04:14 GMT -5
She wasn't. After he shot her, he stripped her and took photos and sent them to her dad. Moore claims in his original script the Joker was actually going to rape Jim Gordon, but that got nixed as the editors at DC didn't want people thinking the Joker was gay I thought there was something else implied there, but I haven't read it in about 5 years so you're right. My bad for that ugly error.
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