JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 41,965
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Sept 19, 2011 4:44:52 GMT -5
I thought the match was pretty good, and from the look Beth had after the match I think this is leading somewhere she seemed like she was close to snapping. Beth's spanking KK. Sorry that falls under the bimbo tactics category. I've gotta agree with that as soon as it happened, I said wasn't this one of the things they flat out stated they were against? I thought the spanking thing was to humiliate her just like Kelly's been doing it to humiliate to other divas.
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Post by celticjobber on Sept 19, 2011 4:53:27 GMT -5
I honestly thought it was one of the best matches on the card.
I'm usually one of the few Kelly Kelly defenders here, but there's no way she should've won tonight. It makes the "Divas of Doom" angle seem pointless.
Hell, Beth Phoenix might as well be released at this point, I don't see what WWE can do to salvage her character.
WWE's booking is making her into the female version of Lex Luger (always choking when she has the big title match).
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odor31
Unicron
The Stunner Collector
Posts: 3,240
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Post by odor31 on Sept 19, 2011 5:18:55 GMT -5
I can understand people being upset that Beth didn't win, I think she should have won also, but there was nothing wrong with that match. I'm starting to realize a large number of complaints about wrestling comes from fantasy booking gone awry. Exactly.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Sept 19, 2011 7:27:40 GMT -5
Okay... clearly I am pissed off from this pay per view and this is one of the reasons why. Beth Phoenix: One of the best wrestlers, has a unique look, good character and worked her ass off to get where she is. Instead they go with that untalented, generic Barbie doll who is one of the worst wrestlers I have ever seen in the ring. She has ZERO personality, ZERO wrestling skills and ZERO passion for the business. I have never ever liked her. She comes off being completely fake and not giving a damn about wrestling. Sadly, there's many other women like that on the roster. Tough Enough had that stupid "Melina vs. Alicia Fox" girl. EVERYONE knew that she had zero passion and what happens... they go ahead and sign her. I always hope that there will be a new head of talent relations. Because I know than person can do a better job than Johnny Ace, who is the reason why this continues. There's literally thousands of people who want to be in the WWE but are turned down for generic models or bodybuilders. Last I checked, Johnny Ace doesn't book the matches. And the diva's aren't all models. If you want to blame someone, blame Stephanie. She is the one who leads the booking of this.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Sept 19, 2011 7:30:31 GMT -5
I'm usually one of the few Kelly Kelly defenders here, but there's no way she should've won tonight. It makes the "Divas of Doom" angle seem pointless. it isn't pointless. Nattie/Beth talk a big game, but at the same time they don't take Kelly seriously. Every time they do that , it costs them. Basically, they don't practice what the preach.
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Post by redpyramidsh on Sept 19, 2011 7:47:15 GMT -5
I just want Beth to stay away from the flat iron from now on~
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Post by azrael502 on Sept 19, 2011 8:01:53 GMT -5
i thougth the match was damn good for a divas match
but i do think beth should have won
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Post by thecrocksays on Sept 19, 2011 8:51:30 GMT -5
Kelly will drop the title soon. She might be their centerpiece, but they are not going to build the entire division around her. They don't want any one diva becoming bigger than the division because they've been burned too many times in the past when they tried to create that "female Cena", for lack of a better term. Watch Maryse come back tonight and lay Kelly out. It would not only be hilarious, but is entirely possible.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Sept 19, 2011 8:55:14 GMT -5
Imo, nearly every K2 match is lackluster so no it wasn't bad just because Beth lost (yet again).
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Post by sunnytaker on Sept 19, 2011 9:03:38 GMT -5
i'm 3/4 expecting this to all end up with Eve turning on Kelly Kelly, making her first heel turn (not counting the 2 minute promo she made that one time never to be mentioned again) and winning the belt instead of either Beth or Nattie. who knows, she might even join them and use the DoD as her personal bodyguards to avoid future title defenses after that or something.
basically Eve and Kelly have been bestest of best friends for way too long in wrestling years without someone turning, and it's not usually the one with the title.
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Beast Army Ass
Hank Scorpio
What being a Philadelphia sports fan feels like.
Posts: 7,149
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Post by Beast Army Ass on Sept 19, 2011 9:11:38 GMT -5
While a match can be good by its base merits, if the wrestler you like doesn't win, then yeah, you tend to not like the match overall.
As a sortakinda example, I am an Eagles fan. Last night's game was technically a good one, in that there was lots of good plays being made by both teams on offense and defense. But the Eagles lost. So, in the end I didn't like the game. When fantasy booking goes awry, then sure it tends to sour people on a match, but plain and simple the whole point of a person being motivated to watch a match is to see their favorite (of the two) win. When that doesn't happen, people get pissy.
That being said Beth totally should've won. :-p
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 19, 2011 9:14:53 GMT -5
It was okay, for a Kelly Kelly match. It might even be the best Kelly Kelly match. That, unfortunately, does not make it a good match, regardless of the results.
She has some cool moves, but the vast majority of them just have a very choreographed feel to them. Obviously they are, but they shouldn't LOOK like it. I'd be my testicle that there are more attractive women out there who could do the moves more convincingly and put a more fluid match together.
Also, I hate her face.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Sept 19, 2011 9:57:54 GMT -5
It was a surprisingly good match. I hated the ending though since I can't stand Kelly Kelly and wanted Beth to win. At least it gave us adorable sad Beth though She looked so cute, like she needed a hug.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 19, 2011 9:59:10 GMT -5
Also, Beth Phoenix looked AMAZING last night. She wasn't wearing her hooker lipstick, and it made a huge difference.
Seriously, someone needs to tell the make up people to cut that shit out.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Sept 19, 2011 10:36:23 GMT -5
It should also be noted that after the superplex, Beth was constantly holding her neck, and had was stumbling around a bit, which lead directly to Kelly reversing the Powerbomb into the sunset flip for the win.
It's the classic "one move cost'em".
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Post by thesunbeast on Sept 19, 2011 11:40:18 GMT -5
I think the upsetting thing here with most people is the notion of the "Kelly Kelly is bad" thing. If you don't regard Kelly Kelly as bad, then the idea's expressed in this thread don't make any sense. Kelly Kelly being bad is an absolute must as a prerequisite.
Give the woman a break. What I really think is going on here is what usually goes on with most people, that is: People use whatever knowledge (or lack thereof) that they have to justify their own subjective personal tastes. People try to pretend that their own subjective personal tastes are objectively true. You like person A, then OK. But as soon as someone finds out that Person A holds a marathon title, they say "yeah, my favorite is person A, because this person has a marothon title".
Essentially, what they're really saying is "I like person A, because this person has a marathon title, and so there is something objectively valuable about this person, and that's the reason why I like them, and so my subjective personal tastes are better than your subjective personal tastes because my subjective personal tastes are only applied to those who have objectively valuable things to them, and therefore my reasoning is smarter than your reasoning because my subjective personal tastes happen to match up with those things out there that are objectively valuable, and your subjective personal tastes do not". A person with this mind set tries to make it apparent that they are absolutely incapable of having subjective personal tastes that are not based off of their belief that this view is objectively the best.
Case in point, one could probably make a poll right here in this forum and ask everyone who their favorite wrestler or diva is, and I'd reckon that most would try to give some explanation as to why their favorite is really objectively better than all the rest and that's why that's their favorite.
So Beth vs Kelly.
I think Beth has a certain role, and I think Kelly Kelly has a certain role. I think that Kelly Kelly is really good at the type of role that she has, and I don't think that she can get much better unless she changes completely. I think that Beth Phoenix is the best female wrestler in the WWE. Also, Beth Phoenix is my favorite female wrestler in the WWE, because I happen to like the types of female wrestlers that have alot to offer athletically, and I believe that in this regard, that Beth is the best. This does not mean that I think that my personal tastes are objectively better than others, not in entertainment.
Kelly Kelly is a diva type, which really means, that if she's beautiful, and if her being beautiful is actually going to be a part of her character rather than just an interesting side effect, than that means that she has to wrestle......like a beautiful princess. No elbow drops, no knee drops, no headbutts, no backbreakers ect, her moves have to be......cute. Like rolls and flips, and twirls and tricks. All of which I think Kelly Kelly is very good at and very athletic at. Plus, Kelly Kelly is IMO good at having facial expressions and characteristics that match her character. It's not like she's wrestling like a beauty queen but when she gets hurt she yells like a monster. Kelly could even make a mistake or two, and she'd get away with it, because she could sell her princess character well and she could afford it.
As far as mistakes, I don't think it's all bad. I think It's doing things that mess up your persona that's what's bad. Bobby Heenan was a goofball as a character, so if he slipped on a banana peel and it was unscripted, Heenan would get away with it. Heenan could screw up alot and it would always still be a part of his character somehow. People might just say "well, it's still Bobby" and not much might be done because not much would be taken away from his character, and then not the show overall. Now, If Mr. Perfect slipped on a banana peel, that's another story, or if John Morrison messed up a parkour spot, he might suffer for it. If Kelly Kelly dropped the F bomb, she would suffer for it much more than CM Punk ever would. That's how I view mistakes in WWE, and I think history supports it.
So Beth Phoenix is more in line with my subjective personal tastes than Kelly Kelly, but that doesn't mean that I believe that my subjective personal tastes are objectively true, and so definitely not objectively true enough for me to bash Kelly Kelly as if she's objectively bad at all these things.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on Sept 19, 2011 11:54:56 GMT -5
the match was terrible cuz kelly is terrible from a performer's standpoint. You can do all the flips you want, but if you dont look co-ordinated in the ring, then you aint sh**
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 19, 2011 12:52:07 GMT -5
That's a whole lot of mental gymnastics to basically say that Kelly being bad is okay because it fits her character.
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Post by Error on Sept 19, 2011 12:55:31 GMT -5
To me it sucked other than the Superplex spot (kudos to both for that, amazing). The whole story the announcers were telling was of K2 being the underdog despite dominating the match minus one spot and then she wins. It was just an ass backwards match.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 13:02:37 GMT -5
This was the best diva match of the year. I thought it was better and had a hotter crowd than even the World title and both secondary title matches.
Then again, I also thought Del Rio vs. Cena last night was fantastic and the best match on the show but all I see for the most part is “this sucks, Cena’s champ again??” type comments regarding that match. It’s like a **** match can turn into a DUD if the person you like doesn’t win.
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