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Post by linecookguy on Dec 28, 2011 23:40:52 GMT -5
We will talk about promo's when he finally gets angry or says something other than his WWWYKI on the mic.All I have ever seen him do is his catchphrases and talk really, really, really fast. I don't think there is a wrestler that actually looks at Zack Ryder like he is a legitimate threat. As I stated before same thing goes for the Miz When Zack gets some ruthless aggression we can talk Why does every character need to have ruthless aggression? Someone does something different with a mid card act then you want him to do what everyone else does? And a lot of times when there isn't anything different people complain that everyone acts the same. Ryder doesn't need to show Ruthless Aggression at least not until way down the line when a situation might call for it. Every wrestler needs to be able to be SRS and have aggression, you are fighting, your kicking ass! Why should he talk really fast and say WWWYKI and fist pump all the time. All the great wrestlers have that it factor, can talk on the mic, and have the ringwork to back it up. Ryder hasn't shown me any of that. He can't win me over as a threat because he acts F'n goofy
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 28, 2011 23:45:45 GMT -5
I've asked before and nevr gotten a response. If Zack Ryder is being shoved down people's throats then what exactly consitutes a natural push? Cody Rhodes's push, since the day he stepped in the company. He was never shoved down anyone's throat, never suddenly took a level in badass and was be able to beat people that would've mopped the floor with him a few months before. He's constantly evolved and its led him to a lot of different places. That's a natural push, imo. Not that Ryder's is all that unnatural, but they kinda skipped a step in the build up like they seem to with a lot of wrestlers. Well the reason I think they were skipping steps is because Ryder was a special case. Like take what you said about Cody for instance. His push was slow and steady, because his rise to popularity was steady. And that's the case with most midcarders rise to fame. Whereas in Ryder's case his popularity practically spiked overnight. So the WWE likely felt that they needed to capitalize on this right away out of fear that if they delayed it too long the fans will get bored with the revolution and move on to something else. And if the push got a backlash, the WWE would have likely backed off on it. But the fact is, the fans ate up every minute of it, so the WWE had no reason to slow it down.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Dec 28, 2011 23:46:23 GMT -5
I'm not getting the "he's a good talker" bit. He's a good solid wrestler, but he cuts terrible promos. Came in here to pretty much say the same thing. I like Ryder, I think he absolutely can be the future, and he SHOULD be the guy that leads the new generation of top babyfaces against a heel Cena, should Cena ever turn. I mean, John Cena went down the same route before getting to where he is now. Bland rookie ---> Comedy heel ---> Comedy babyface ---> Semi-serious babyface with serious crowd support and a US title run. So I'd say he's coming along nicely. But man alive, can he not cut a promo. His silly facials (a byproduct of his essentially midcard gimmick) keeps me from taking him seriously at a top level...until he gets in the ring. Dude has WWE Style down PAT. He can actually grow into one of their top main event performers. Not an all-time great WRESTLER, but a guy who delivers in big match situations, sort of like Cena. But yeah, whereas I'd had him marked about even with Ziggler in terms of "Silly Gimmick" (in Dolph's case, it's "Silly Name") and "Poor Promo" skills, Ziggler has pulled ahead ever since he found his niche on promos and has become a stellar talker, and an even better in-ring worker. And I think it's because Ziggler has had more of an opportunity to cut promos and work on finding the right approach to his on-mic character. The more airtime and mic time Ryder gets, the more confident I am that he'll eventually work out the awkwardness of the promos/deliveries he does now. Because at this point, he's not much better than Morrison. And that's kinda saying something.
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Shazam
Mephisto
And then there's this ***hole...
Posts: 727
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Post by Shazam on Dec 28, 2011 23:48:41 GMT -5
Well, to perhaps slightly echo the statements of the OP, I've grown weary of Zach myself. I wish he would sit down and watch the first 2 videos that he did post Dirt Sheet when he started the WWWYKI gimmick, because that was comedy gold. Ever since then, he was a heel (which was I always thought a bad use), then morphed into the face that he is now, but he forgot what was funny in the first place. WWW should not be drawn out in the drawl that he does it in now.
Other than that, he's not terribly funny. Santino has him beat, and Santino's not that funny. He's okay in the ring, which is all you need these days, but I'm hoping a new level gets added to him soon, otherwise I won't be surprised when he's gone next year.
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Post by linecookguy on Dec 28, 2011 23:51:57 GMT -5
Well, to perhaps slightly echo the statements of the OP, I've grown weary of Zach myself. I wish he would sit down and watch the first 2 videos that he did post Dirt Sheet when he started the WWWYKI gimmick, because that was comedy gold. Ever since then, he was a heel (which was I always thought a bad use), then morphed into the face that he is now, but he forgot what was funny in the first place. WWW should not be drawn out in the drawl that he does it in now. Other than that, he's not terribly funny. Santino has him beat, and Santino's not that funny. He's okay in the ring, which is all you need these days, but I'm hoping a new level gets added to him soon, otherwise I won't be surprised when he's gone next year. Thank You Sir
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 28, 2011 23:55:20 GMT -5
I've asked before and nevr gotten a response. If Zack Ryder is being shoved down people's throats then what exactly consitutes a natural push? Cody Rhodes's push, since the day he stepped in the company. He was never shoved down anyone's throat, never suddenly took a level in badass and was be able to beat people that would've mopped the floor with him a few months before. He's constantly evolved and its led him to a lot of different places. That's a natural push, imo. Not that Ryder's is all that unnatural, but they kinda skipped a step in the build up like they seem to with a lot of wrestlers. I wouldn't say that. Cody and Ted were put up against HHH and HBK very early on, and after that, they rotted around doing nothing of note once they broke up. It took a few months before Cody started doing anything. I'd say the most natural push (at least until his title win) would be John Cena more than anything (up until his Mania win against JBL).
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Post by jadison on Dec 28, 2011 23:59:13 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes's push, since the day he stepped in the company. He was never shoved down anyone's throat, never suddenly took a level in badass and was be able to beat people that would've mopped the floor with him a few months before. He's constantly evolved and its led him to a lot of different places. That's a natural push, imo. Not that Ryder's is all that unnatural, but they kinda skipped a step in the build up like they seem to with a lot of wrestlers. Well the reason I think they were skipping steps is because Ryder was a special case. Like take what you said about Cody for instance. His push was slow and steady, because his rise to popularity was steady. And that's the case with most midcarders rise to fame. Whereas in Ryder's case his popularity practically spiked overnight. So the WWE likely felt that they needed to capitalize on this right away out of fear that if they delayed it too long the fans will get bored with the revolution and move on to something else. And if the push got a backlash, the WWE would have likely backed off on it. But the fact is, the fans ate up every minute of it, so the WWE had no reason to slow it down. I'd agree with you there. They were right to give him a push, fans really did demand it. That's what makes Ryder feel more like a fad though, they hotshotted him pretty good and that doesn't work so well with smallish guys like him. I think his potential at that moment with his webshow was higher than his overall potential down the road if they did more of a slow build the way they've done with Rhodes, who to me is light years beyond Zack as far as range and skills. Bottom line, he deserves his push, WWE was right to do it, but it doesn't feel like a push that's going to create a lasting main event star. However, my perspective could be clouded by the fact that I just don't enjoy the gimmick.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Dec 29, 2011 0:29:53 GMT -5
Personally I feel like Ryder is their most marketable superstar and can easily surpass both Cena and Punk as top face of WWE.
Considering the current trends of this generation are YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter which are all things Ryder relies on, I can see him becoming this generation's Hulk Hogan when they finetune his character more.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Dec 29, 2011 0:33:32 GMT -5
OP I hate Punk, so you're allowed to hate Ryder. You have no hard feelings with me. As I say, to each his own.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 29, 2011 0:39:21 GMT -5
...and so begins the "now he's popular, so I don't like him" swing. I've been waiting for this. Except, believe it or not, not everyone was sucking the guy's nut before. It's not really that strange of a thing to happen. When the guy wasn't being pushed beyond Superstars, pretty much the only people who paid attention to him were those who liked his show and sought him out on the online shows. But when a guy starts getting pushed, more people get exposed to him. And some of those people are going to commit the cardinal sin of not liking him. The people trying to turn it into a hipster "He was better before he became mainstream" thing are just missing the point.
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Post by Sparvid on Dec 29, 2011 0:42:55 GMT -5
Only thing I'm not crazy about is the crowd being called upon to do that "WOO! WOO! WOO!" chant like 35 times a show (feels like it anyway) The one thing I don't like about Ryder is (partially) changing his catchphrase from "Woo Woo Woo! You know it!" (where the crowd easily could say the latter part for him) to "Woh! Woh! Woh!", with identical intonation.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 29, 2011 0:43:55 GMT -5
Personally I feel like Ryder is their most marketable superstar and can easily surpass both Cena and Punk as top face of WWE. Considering the current trends of this generation are YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter which are all things Ryder relies on, I can see him becoming this generation's Hulk Hogan when they finetune his character more. Not a chance in hell. He doesn't have the mic skills to do it.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 29, 2011 3:16:22 GMT -5
This. People who bitch because someone famous doesnt Retweet or reply to them on Twitter are dicks. I hope you're not implying that I do that. Like I already said, while he's not legally obligated to talk to fans, would it hurt to talk to them more? What's stopping him? He's not some whirlwind artist hard at work on a number of projects. Ten minutes a day wouldn't kill him, considering how dependent he's been on rallying from his fans. I don't know if Ryder reads this thread but I just checked his twitter today and he replied to like 10 fans. ...Considering how I check his twitter on a daily basis I know how strange that is. Uh. RYDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD I THINK YOU ARE GREAT! WOO WOO WOO! But try cutting longer promos!
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Post by Shaun2k5 on Dec 29, 2011 3:34:01 GMT -5
I've asked before and nevr gotten a response. If Zack Ryder is being shoved down people's throats then what exactly consitutes a natural push? Cody Rhodes's push, since the day he stepped in the company. He was never shoved down anyone's throat, never suddenly took a level in badass and was be able to beat people that would've mopped the floor with him a few months before. He's constantly evolved and its led him to a lot of different places. That's a natural push, imo. Not that Ryder's is all that unnatural, but they kinda skipped a step in the build up like they seem to with a lot of wrestlers. What you mean is creative had nothing for him and have constantly re-hashed his gimmick in a desperate bid to find somewhere to put him. The fact that he's considered a "great" IC champion yet is defending the belt against Booker T says all.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 29, 2011 3:41:50 GMT -5
Was Kurt Angle a badass in 1999-2000? NO! He was a whiny little comedy act like Santino. Just because he isn't a badass now doesn't mean he'll never be a badass. Whoa whoa. Kurt Angle was a whiny little comedy act? Hardly. Yes he was funny, but that had more to do with the fact that he was supposed to be completely out of touch with what was popular, they still made it clear that the dude could kick your ass. Santino has the same level of out of touch "comedy" because he's a silly foreigner, but he was never made to look like anything above a comedy act like Kurt was. Anyways, Ryder is decent. I will admit that constantly coaxing the fans to do the "woo woo woo" is a bit annoying, much like how WWE does with everything else.
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Post by gonzo16 on Dec 29, 2011 9:55:30 GMT -5
Ryder will never be main event or top of the card material. His character has gotten over, but it has a ceiling also, so you have to take the good of it with the bad. He got over because of his hard work, and he was a very sympathetic character, and now that he isn't sympathetic anymore I feel his popularity will start to die down.
It won't be long until he starts getting booed or in the very least starts getting very light reactions from the crowd because he's not the underdog anymore , and his character is going to annoy people.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 29, 2011 10:33:35 GMT -5
Ryder will never be main event or top of the card material. And what's wrong with that?
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Post by gonzo16 on Dec 29, 2011 10:46:09 GMT -5
Ryder will never be main event or top of the card material. And what's wrong with that? Nothing, I was directing that at someone that said he will be at the top of the card one day. Not everyone has to be at the top of the card to be successful
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,603
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Post by trollrogue on Dec 29, 2011 12:47:43 GMT -5
I was gonna say something bad about Z-Ride, but then I recalled DAT TIGER BOMB!!
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 29, 2011 12:53:46 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes's push, since the day he stepped in the company. He was never shoved down anyone's throat, never suddenly took a level in badass and was be able to beat people that would've mopped the floor with him a few months before. He's constantly evolved and its led him to a lot of different places. That's a natural push, imo. Not that Ryder's is all that unnatural, but they kinda skipped a step in the build up like they seem to with a lot of wrestlers. What you mean is creative had nothing for him and have constantly re-hashed his gimmick in a desperate bid to find somewhere to put him. The fact that he's considered a "great" IC champion yet is defending the belt against Booker T says all. What's wrong with Cody Rhodes defending the belt against Booker T?
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