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Post by notasmark on Jul 28, 2012 4:46:18 GMT -5
This is womens logic at it's best. "I can post pictures of my cleavage but if anyone says something sexual or says i am attractive there will be hell to pay!"
This girl has done it for attention. She's deliberately unbuttoned her shirt to show maximum boob (As a matter of fact you can see abit of her bra, thats how much boob she is showing)
I love how her friend says "Creepy guys shouldnt contact you for wearing a shirt when it's hot" when CLEARLY the girl has undone buttons for this attention. Maybe if she had been in a bikini and taken photos with friends those types of comments would be inappropriate but when you do that this of thing it's asking for comments related to sex.
It would be like me going on Facebook taking my shirt off and posing in my underwear and then getting mad if anyone complimented me/messaged me. It's ludicrous.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 28, 2012 10:48:13 GMT -5
This is womens logic at it's best. "I can post pictures of my cleavage but if anyone says something sexual or says i am attractive there will be hell to pay!" This girl has done it for attention. She's deliberately unbuttoned her shirt to show maximum boob (As a matter of fact you can see abit of her bra, thats how much boob she is showing) I love how her friend says "Creepy guys shouldnt contact you for wearing a shirt when it's hot" when CLEARLY the girl has undone buttons for this attention. Maybe if she had been in a bikini and taken photos with friends those types of comments would be inappropriate but when you do that this of thing it's asking for comments related to sex. It would be like me going on Facebook taking my shirt off and posing in my underwear and then getting mad if anyone complimented me/messaged me. It's ludicrous. Yes, how DARE she! How dare she speak out against pervy comments because, GASP(!), she had a shirt that emphasized her breasts! Nothing was "asking for comments related to sex", because it's never appropriate to do that. It's the fault of the sexless, basement dwelling morons who think that they'll win a girl over by talking about all the awful things they want to do to her.Seriously, how @#$%ing dare you.
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Post by Fantozzi on Jul 28, 2012 11:27:36 GMT -5
total overreaction here, i can only read "oh" and a line that was supposed to be funny (not even written by a man!)
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jul 28, 2012 14:27:50 GMT -5
A girl on my Facebook a while back posted a pic of herself full on naked Doesn't that violate terms or something? I guess, but I don't suppose it'll get taken down unless it gets reported. Probably did after a while.
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Post by notasmark on Jul 28, 2012 15:04:12 GMT -5
This is womens logic at it's best. "I can post pictures of my cleavage but if anyone says something sexual or says i am attractive there will be hell to pay!" This girl has done it for attention. She's deliberately unbuttoned her shirt to show maximum boob (As a matter of fact you can see abit of her bra, thats how much boob she is showing) I love how her friend says "Creepy guys shouldnt contact you for wearing a shirt when it's hot" when CLEARLY the girl has undone buttons for this attention. Maybe if she had been in a bikini and taken photos with friends those types of comments would be inappropriate but when you do that this of thing it's asking for comments related to sex. It would be like me going on Facebook taking my shirt off and posing in my underwear and then getting mad if anyone complimented me/messaged me. It's ludicrous. Yes, how DARE she! How dare she speak out against pervy comments because, GASP(!), she had a shirt that emphasized her breasts! Nothing was "asking for comments related to sex", because it's never appropriate to do that. It's the fault of the sexless, basement dwelling morons who think that they'll win a girl over by talking about all the awful things they want to do to her.Seriously, how @#$%ing dare you.I don't think i said anything that bad to be honest. If you want to post photos that men are going to find sexy you have to expect the comments that come along with it. Just like if a man posts a photo of himself shirtless he has to expect sexual related comments whether that's a "You're sexy" or more. If the comments are too much just block the person no need to complain publically. This girl has gone for sexual attention she has undone atleast 5 buttons on that photo to maximise breast her body language is an attempt to be sexy and she is wearing makeup and lipstick this was definetly a request for sexual attention. Does she deserve perverted comments? No. But of course if you post a photo where your bra is visible and you can basically see a majority of the boob some men are going to be attracted and post sexual things. I don't understand why women get so upset over it though. Wow a man said nice boobs is that really such a bad thing? If someone said i had a nice ass or something i wouldnt be offended. If someone says they want to have sex with me isnt that flattering? I'd be flattered even if the person was unattractive. EDIT: The same thing kind of relates in person. No i don't think a woman deserves to get raped if she wears a low cut dress but if you're looking at a woman at a club who is showing maximum boob and legs and she gets mad that isnt justified in my opinion. Men are attracted to certain things and alot of what women wear today is worn to attract men. All because you're attracting men you don't particularly like doesent mean you can complain.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 28, 2012 17:05:51 GMT -5
I think it was brought up earlier, one female poster asked about liking this dress, which may've been a bit revealing in different ways, should she be harassed while wearing it. Sometimes women enjoy feeling confident. Hell, if I looked good without my shirt on (and somedays I do, today I don't), I would feel better about it. And, there really is a disconnect because people are relating comments of "hey you're sexy" to "I want to f*** you". And again, I talked to another woman today that I met up with at the wharf today, and she knows about getting penis pictures and sexual harassment, and sexism at work. I'm almost certain most women can profess to having stuff like this happen at some point, which is why I have some sympy. And some people don't have their sympy at all.
Sometimes a person will take a picture and think, hey, I look good with this, and post it. It's not meant as looking for sexual comments. Maybe it's just a nice picture, and people are like, oh how can that be, they're looking for attention. It's weird. People who look for attention seem to be seen as the most vile scum on the planet. Also, it really goes back to straw maning with the example of, "oh, if you look at a chick in a bar, she'll get mad". It's like, a straw man in sexy clothing argument. Is it because you gave her a look, or is it because you're creepily staring at her for 5 minutes straight? I've gone to bars many times and thought to myself, "holy tits batman". But just because someone is wearing something sexy, doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And maybe that's where everyone is missing. It's like, angrily agreeing. Nobody wants people to be raped, but the reason rape is brought up is because the reasoning and logic is similar.
She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should know that guys are gonna say some sexual things to her.
She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should have known she could have been raped.
Hell, have guys been in situations where they're fooling around with a girl (looking at the thread though I'm going to say a few haven't), but if I'm fooling around with a chick and she doesn't want to go any further or go all the way, is it excusable for me to sexually harass her, even if like, she's half naked? I mean, look at her, her tits are hanging out, literally, she should expect me to sexually harass her? No, of course not. To some people it might be ok, but those people are literally called narcissists, according to this book anyway. And there are cases where it's going to happen, but it's a f***ed up world and we should fight to change perceptions and attitudes. Which may not happen here, but maybe one sexist guy will be like, yeah, he's right, or whoever here is right, or whatever.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 28, 2012 17:18:26 GMT -5
I think it was brought up earlier, one female poster asked about liking this dress, which may've been a bit revealing in different ways, should she be harassed while wearing it. Sometimes women enjoy feeling confident. Hell, if I looked good without my shirt on (and somedays I do, today I don't), I would feel better about it. And, there really is a disconnect because people are relating comments of "hey you're sexy" to "I want to f*** you". And again, I talked to another woman today that I met up with at the wharf today, and she knows about getting penis pictures and sexual harassment, and sexism at work. I'm almost certain most women can profess to having stuff like this happen at some point, which is why I have some sympy. And some people don't have their sympy at all. Sometimes a person will take a picture and think, hey, I look good with this, and post it. It's not meant as looking for sexual comments. Maybe it's just a nice picture, and people are like, oh how can that be, they're looking for attention. It's weird. People who look for attention seem to be seen as the most vile scum on the planet. Also, it really goes back to straw maning with the example of, "oh, if you look at a chick in a bar, she'll get mad". It's like, a straw man in sexy clothing argument. Is it because you gave her a look, or is it because you're creepily staring at her for 5 minutes straight? I've gone to bars many times and thought to myself, "holy tits batman". But just because someone is wearing something sexy, doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And maybe that's where everyone is missing. It's like, angrily agreeing. Nobody wants people to be raped, but the reason rape is brought up is because the reasoning and logic is similar. She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should know that guys are gonna say some sexual things to her. She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should have known she could have been raped. Hell, have guys been in situations where they're fooling around with a girl ( looking at the thread though I'm going to say a few haven't), but if I'm fooling around with a chick and she doesn't want to go any further or go all the way, is it excusable for me to sexually harass her, even if like, she's half naked? I mean, look at her, her tits are hanging out, literally, she should expect me to sexually harass her? No, of course not. To some people it might be ok, but those people are literally called narcissists, according to this book anyway. And there are cases where it's going to happen, but it's a f***ed up world and we should fight to change perceptions and attitudes. Which may not happen here, but maybe one sexist guy will be like, yeah, he's right, or whoever here is right, or whatever. Speaking of strawmen....... I really wish people could recognize the difference between harassment and failed attempts at flirting. There is a substantial difference that always seems to go ignored.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
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Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jul 28, 2012 17:35:17 GMT -5
I think it was brought up earlier, one female poster asked about liking this dress, which may've been a bit revealing in different ways, should she be harassed while wearing it. Sometimes women enjoy feeling confident. Hell, if I looked good without my shirt on (and somedays I do, today I don't), I would feel better about it. And, there really is a disconnect because people are relating comments of "hey you're sexy" to "I want to f*** you". And again, I talked to another woman today that I met up with at the wharf today, and she knows about getting penis pictures and sexual harassment, and sexism at work. I'm almost certain most women can profess to having stuff like this happen at some point, which is why I have some sympy. And some people don't have their sympy at all. Sometimes a person will take a picture and think, hey, I look good with this, and post it. It's not meant as looking for sexual comments. Maybe it's just a nice picture, and people are like, oh how can that be, they're looking for attention. It's weird. People who look for attention seem to be seen as the most vile scum on the planet. Also, it really goes back to straw maning with the example of, "oh, if you look at a chick in a bar, she'll get mad". It's like, a straw man in sexy clothing argument. Is it because you gave her a look, or is it because you're creepily staring at her for 5 minutes straight? I've gone to bars many times and thought to myself, "holy tits batman". But just because someone is wearing something sexy, doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And maybe that's where everyone is missing. It's like, angrily agreeing. Nobody wants people to be raped, but the reason rape is brought up is because the reasoning and logic is similar. She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should know that guys are gonna say some sexual things to her. She dressed in a sexy outfit, she should have known she could have been raped. Hell, have guys been in situations where they're fooling around with a girl (looking at the thread though I'm going to say a few haven't), but if I'm fooling around with a chick and she doesn't want to go any further or go all the way, is it excusable for me to sexually harass her, even if like, she's half naked? I mean, look at her, her tits are hanging out, literally, she should expect me to sexually harass her? No, of course not. To some people it might be ok, but those people are literally called narcissists, according to this book anyway. And there are cases where it's going to happen, but it's a f***ed up world and we should fight to change perceptions and attitudes. Which may not happen here, but maybe one sexist guy will be like, yeah, he's right, or whoever here is right, or whatever. I feel like you're imparting a naivete to women that's kind of infantilizing. Like I'm always pretty aware of whether my tits are hanging out or not. If I choose to take a picture where I put myself out, like the pictures in this thread, I'm aware of doing it. I'm free to do this, and putting a picture like that up is an act of sexual agency, neither good nor bad. It comes across to me like you're undercutting the element of this that is her choice to put up something that's pretty explicitly sexual. Like this is an image that would be found in a men's magazine. It's not like I'm just happening about my day and obliviously without my control or conscious awareness throw up a picture with my boobs hanging out. This is not to say that it's correct for men to harrass her or make shitty comments. Or to say that she's wrong to put up a picture like that. But I think that you're undercutting the element of decision making involved when putting the picture up in the first place, and the things that you just kind of know from living in the world we live in. Again I totally disagree with the part that says that no one can complain about receiving shitty comments, harassment etc. Like the decision to speak out about anything lies with the individual. Men don't have a right to dictate when it's ok and when it's not ok for women to speak out about something. And it is wrong when men make shitty comments, harass women, etc. Of course the better world would be one where that doesn't happen, but in discussing this situation in the real world of today you can't just remove the element of self awareness.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 28, 2012 17:56:03 GMT -5
Yes, how DARE she! How dare she speak out against pervy comments because, GASP(!), she had a shirt that emphasized her breasts! Nothing was "asking for comments related to sex", because it's never appropriate to do that. It's the fault of the sexless, basement dwelling morons who think that they'll win a girl over by talking about all the awful things they want to do to her.Seriously, how @#$%ing dare you.I don't think i said anything that bad to be honest. If you want to post photos that men are going to find sexy you have to expect the comments that come along with it. Just like if a man posts a photo of himself shirtless he has to expect sexual related comments whether that's a "You're sexy" or more. If the comments are too much just block the person no need to complain publically. This girl has gone for sexual attention she has undone atleast 5 buttons on that photo to maximise breast her body language is an attempt to be sexy and she is wearing makeup and lipstick this was definetly a request for sexual attention. Does she deserve perverted comments? No. But of course if you post a photo where your bra is visible and you can basically see a majority of the boob some men are going to be attracted and post sexual things. I don't understand why women get so upset over it though. Wow a man said nice boobs is that really such a bad thing? If someone said i had a nice ass or something i wouldnt be offended. If someone says they want to have sex with me isnt that flattering? I'd be flattered even if the person was unattractive. EDIT: The same thing kind of relates in person. No i don't think a woman deserves to get raped if she wears a low cut dress but if you're looking at a woman at a club who is showing maximum boob and legs and she gets mad that isnt justified in my opinion. Men are attracted to certain things and alot of what women wear today is worn to attract men. All because you're attracting men you don't particularly like doesent mean you can complain. Actually, what you said, and continue to say, is absolutely vile.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 28, 2012 17:56:08 GMT -5
It's not really naivety or whatever. They probably do know that there is going to be a sexual element, but again, maybe they also just like the look of it, you know what I'm saying. Another example could be showing off your body after months of work out results. They likely know there's a sexual element to it, but the main point is, here is my before and after. And of course, some chicks could be like, hey, this looks hot, here's my tits, which is fine as well. But I think the overarching theme of the thread, at least at the beginning seemed to be, the only reason is sexual attention.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 28, 2012 18:11:28 GMT -5
It's not really naivety or whatever. They probably do know that there is going to be a sexual element, but again, maybe they also just like the look of it, you know what I'm saying. Another example could be showing off your body after months of work out results. They likely know there's a sexual element to it, but the main point is, here is my before and after. And of course, some chicks could be like, hey, this looks hot, here's my tits, which is fine as well. But I think the overarching theme of the thread, at least at the beginning seemed to be, the only reason is sexual attention. And the question is, and which continues to go unanswered, is "If not sexual, then what is the purpose"? If she was proud of how she looked, why upload it and not keep it on her phone for her to see? If she wanted to show it to friends,why make it public when privacy setting were included? If she wanted to just reveal her clothing and what she was wearing, why center the image on her open shirt and bra? The point HMark made earlier about "Who cares, even if she was completely naked, you can't say anything about it" loses impact when you think about the context. Why is the woman naked? and all that. Also, it's wrong when you give various reasons for why women (and men) do this in the photo or what they feel, but the opposite side is stereotyped as dateless creeps who are a second away from raping someone because they think everything means a cue to have sex.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 28, 2012 18:27:18 GMT -5
It's not really naivety or whatever. They probably do know that there is going to be a sexual element, but again, maybe they also just like the look of it, you know what I'm saying. Another example could be showing off your body after months of work out results. They likely know there's a sexual element to it, but the main point is, here is my before and after. And of course, some chicks could be like, hey, this looks hot, here's my tits, which is fine as well. But I think the overarching theme of the thread, at least at the beginning seemed to be, the only reason is sexual attention. And the question is, and which continues to go unanswered, is "If not sexual, then what is the purpose"? If she was proud of how she looked, why upload it and not keep it on her phone for her to see? If she wanted to show it to friends,why make it public when privacy setting were included? If she wanted to just reveal her clothing and what she was wearing, why center the image on her open shirt and bra? The point HMark made earlier about "Who cares, even if she was completely naked, you can't say anything about it" loses impact when you think about the context. Why is the woman naked? and all that. Also, it's wrong when you give various reasons for why women (and men) do this in the photo or what they feel, but the opposite side is stereotyped as dateless creeps who are a second away from raping someone because they think everything means a cue to have sex. Well, again, as I said, there are many reasons people post pics of themselves online. Hell, an argument could be made that everyone on Facebook is an attention whore, posting status updates, pictures of themselves, etc. It could be all about ego. Sometimes if I post a pic of myself that I think is good, it's nice to get some positive reinforcement. Some people like attention because it makes them feel wanted or better about themselves. When it's to the point where it's a mental illness, then of course that's the problem. Maybe she does want attention and does want to show it off to other people because she's proud of it. Maybe she wants some type of response saying "you're hot", "you're sexy" without going into the realm of, "I want to f*** you". No sexy picture means that a woman wants somebody to sexually harass her. Can it happen? Yes. I don't live in a world where it doesn't, but that doesn't mean attitudes like that shouldn't be fought. And yeah, look, I'm sure there are a number of rhode scholars who say shit like that, married people, but again, I guess people look at that stereotype, because I think people who post stuff like that are pathetic losers, and it's more or less the stereotype of a pathetic loser. So that's probably where that comes in. And again, maybe she does want attention. But that doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And again, we're talking sexual harassment, not random compliments. Also, in regards to what HMark said, I will go back and check it but my guess is what he means is, "hey naked lady, want to suck me off?" People are going to say, sweet jesus, this chick is naked. This is pretty crazy. Because depending on the circumstances, it could be. But I think what he meant was, don't sexually harass her, even if she's naked, there's no excuse. Going back to the whole fooling around with chicks example, if someone is naked or half naked in front of me, it still doesn't make it somewhat justifiable for me to sexually harass, assault or do whatever with her if she doesn't want to.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 28, 2012 18:37:07 GMT -5
And again, maybe she does want attention. But that doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And again, we're talking sexual harassment, not random compliments. Also, in regards to what HMark said, I will go back and check it but my guess is what he means is, "hey naked lady, want to suck me off?" People are going to say, sweet jesus, this chick is naked. This is pretty crazy. Because depending on the circumstances, it could be. But I think what he meant was, don't sexually harass her, even if she's naked, there's no excuse. Going back to the whole fooling around with chicks example, if someone is naked or half naked in front of me, it still doesn't make it somewhat justifiable for me to sexually harass, assault or do whatever with her if she doesn't want to. And, again, there seem to be discontent on what is harassment. Like I said, nothing in the posts on the 2 pictures is harassment, or can be considered as such. The messages are different, since they're not shown. Again, people get that harassment is wrong, but when it gets to the point when you start regarding everything as a type of harassment is when it goes wrong.
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Post by Cela on Jul 28, 2012 18:42:24 GMT -5
Also, was anyone thinking of this?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 28, 2012 18:44:38 GMT -5
And again, maybe she does want attention. But that doesn't mean you can sexually harass her. And again, we're talking sexual harassment, not random compliments. Also, in regards to what HMark said, I will go back and check it but my guess is what he means is, "hey naked lady, want to suck me off?" People are going to say, sweet jesus, this chick is naked. This is pretty crazy. Because depending on the circumstances, it could be. But I think what he meant was, don't sexually harass her, even if she's naked, there's no excuse. Going back to the whole fooling around with chicks example, if someone is naked or half naked in front of me, it still doesn't make it somewhat justifiable for me to sexually harass, assault or do whatever with her if she doesn't want to. And, again, there seem to be discontent on what is harassment. Like I said, nothing in the posts on the 2 pictures is harassment, or can be considered as such. The messages are different, since they're not shown. Again, people get that harassment is wrong, but when it gets to the point when you start regarding everything as a type of harassment is when it goes wrong. And this is why the thread goes in circles. It seems to be implied, in the first picture at least, that she got creepy private messages. Why do I believe that? Because girls on the internet frequently get creepy private messages. It happens all the time, and if I asked every woman I have ever met if they got a creepy private message, the majority would say yes. The problem I, and others have, is it's viewed as "normal", due to it's frequency. "But it's the internet....." it happens at times in real life too, the internet just makes it easier because of the anonymity which I've already said a dozen times.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Jul 28, 2012 18:47:35 GMT -5
And the question is, and which continues to go unanswered, is "If not sexual, then what is the purpose"? If she was proud of how she looked, why upload it and not keep it on her phone for her to see? If she wanted to show it to friends,why make it public when privacy setting were included? If she wanted to just reveal her clothing and what she was wearing, why center the image on her open shirt and bra? The point HMark made earlier about "Who cares, even if she was completely naked, you can't say anything about it" loses impact when you think about the context. Why is the woman naked? and all that. Also, it's wrong when you give various reasons for why women (and men) do this in the photo or what they feel, but the opposite side is stereotyped as dateless creeps who are a second away from raping someone because they think everything means a cue to have sex. Well, again, as I said, there are many reasons people post pics of themselves online. Hell, an argument could be made that everyone on Facebook is an attention whore, posting status updates, pictures of themselves, etc. It could be all about ego. Sometimes if I post a pic of myself that I think is good, it's nice to get some positive reinforcement. Some people like attention because it makes them feel wanted or better about themselves. When it's to the point where it's a mental illness, then of course that's the problem. Maybe she does want attention and does want to show it off to other people because she's proud of it. Maybe she wants some type of response saying "you're hot", "you're sexy" without going into the realm of, "I want to f*** you". No sexy picture means that a woman wants somebody to sexually harass her. This is true, yet if you post a sexualized photo of yourself, you have to be prepared for the full breadth of responses you could possibly get for it, from "Hey, you look really pretty in this" to "I wanna ravage you." I do not at all endorse the latter response, as no woman deserves to be sexually harassed, but they shouldn't really act like this is an inconceivable front to their person that someone would dare respond to a blatantly sexualized image in this fashion. It doesn't make the vile responses right, but unless you specify in the caption of the photo that "I only want these kinds of responses to the photo. THIS is okay, THIS is not," etc., then you can't really depend on people to keep themselves in check, especially if you're not restricting access to who can see the photo. I mean, FFS, you're not trying to get harassed, I understand that, but you're not wearing a tight-fitting shirt with a push-up bra because it's comfortable. The only possible other explanation I can imagine is that you'd want to show off the new thing you bought (which many a female on my friends list has done, only to be bombarded with totally inappropriate responses). Again, not saying anybody deserves to be harassed. You just have to be aware of the risk you're taking with posting a photo like that, because you can't control or dictate what kind of attention you get from it. In a perfect world, you could post photos and rely on people to respond with class. But this isn't a perfect world, it's the internet.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Jul 28, 2012 19:25:05 GMT -5
And this is why the thread goes in circles. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png)
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 28, 2012 19:42:45 GMT -5
Ok, it's lockdown time, and I'm giving the reason:
If somebody answers your question, stop re-asking the question every single post. You don't have to agree with everything the person's answer gives, but good Lord, stop re-asking it as if the other person hasn't even made an attempt at responding directly.
Also, please try speaking to more women for perspective on gender issues. Please.
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