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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 28, 2013 23:43:57 GMT -5
I liked the ending of RAW, but I can't for the life of me feel sorry or sad for Vince. Hell, any of the McMahons really. Every time they do this kind of build, they end up coming across as unlikeable and smarmy rather than sympathetic -- yet we're supposed to back HHH defending their honor anyway. Who could care that a rotten sociopath like the Vince character gets attacked by someone who doesn't care? In the end its just one evil person (or people) victimizing another. Am I alone on this? I'm with ya. He's been such an evil motherf***er pretty consistently since '98 it's like, yeah I'm not buying he's a face now. Couple that with me being a Brock mark anyway, and it's just like- "Crush him Lesnar!" Granted, I'd be a hundred times more excited if it wasn't obvious what tHHHey have planned.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 28, 2013 23:44:07 GMT -5
I liked the ending of RAW, but I can't for the life of me feel sorry or sad for Vince. Hell, any of the McMahons really. Every time they do this kind of build, they end up coming across as unlikeable and smarmy rather than sympathetic -- yet we're supposed to back HHH defending their honor anyway. Who could care that a rotten sociopath like the Vince character gets attacked by someone who doesn't care? In the end its just one evil person (or people) victimizing another. Am I alone on this? Vince almost never came across as a sociopath to me. I liked him better than Austin when they were feuding in the 90's when he seemed like a man who just wanted his business to have a good public face(this is when the feud was just starting of course, before the lousy corporate Ministry stuff.) He's rarely come across as worse than obnoxious to me, and a lot of the attempts to make him the bad guy have really bugged me. Because the fact is, as much as I dislike big business, I do like law & order and he's the one who can dish that out in WWE. I think the inconsistency is in his megalomania. This is a man who forced a woman to bark like a dog and made wrestlers submit to his will and power by making them kiss his ass. He also openly mocked a beloved announcer's cancer, HBK's religion, and admitted (in character) that he really doesn't care what his audience wants. You can't just flip a switch and make that go away. He's entertaining in a Mr. Burns way, but not at all sympathetic.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
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Post by Dat Dude on Jan 28, 2013 23:45:25 GMT -5
Honestly, I was hoping Brock was going to broke his arm too.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jan 28, 2013 23:46:04 GMT -5
If it weren't for Paul Heyman being more genuine about what people like him and Vince do for a living than Vince himself ever has been right before that happened, then maybe there could've been some sympathy there. That's part of it, but let's look at what Vince was doing when Lesnar attacked him: He was in the middle of the ring to personally humiliate somebody. Regardless of whether or not Paul E. deserves it is moot, as Vince revels in schadenfreude, so how can we possibly empathize here at all?
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
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Post by metylerca on Jan 28, 2013 23:46:19 GMT -5
Vince almost never came across as a sociopath to me. I liked him better than Austin when they were feuding in the 90's when he seemed like a man who just wanted his business to have a good public face(this is when the feud was just starting of course, before the lousy corporate Ministry stuff.) He's rarely come across as worse than obnoxious to me, and a lot of the attempts to make him the bad guy have really bugged me. Because the fact is, as much as I dislike big business, I do like law & order and he's the one who can dish that out in WWE. I think the inconsistency is in his megalomania. This is a man who forced a woman to bark like a dog and made wrestlers submit to his will and power by making them kiss his ass. He also openly mocked a beloved announcer's cancer, HBK's religion, and admitted (in character) that he really doesn't care what his audience wants. You can't just flip a switch and make that go away. He's entertaining in a Mr. Burns way, but not at all sympathetic. For everything Vince has done over the years, he's at least gone through phases where he gets the audience and has shown a softer, nicer side of himself. What has Paul Heyman done to endear the audience?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 23:47:34 GMT -5
And next week we'll get the avenger Triple H returning to attempt to fight the Beast Incarnate himself BROCK LESNAR.
How many people close to HHH does it take for Lesnar to defeat in order for Hunter to get his win back? That's what this is leading up to.
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Post by Error on Jan 28, 2013 23:48:47 GMT -5
We? I thought the IWC wasn't a hivemind... I feel sorry for the guy. Punk, Heyman, Brock, hell even the Shield came across as a bunch of meddling heels in that last segment. It validated everything Vince had done to Punk from October on, because in the end, Vince was right all along. I feel sorry for Brad Maddox too, because he was beaten down by three men while he was defenseless. He's also an old man getting attacked by a beast for no reason other than he was about to fire a man partly responsible for tinkering with match outcomes for the past few months now. Vince was trying to better his own company by ridding it of parasites. The character of Vince was completely in the right there, and the live audience cheering him on during that entire segment would probably agree with him there. On point one, WWE wants their Universe to be of one mind. On the rest, Heyman Inc. did what they did because of how Vince treated them. Even before the Maddox stuff, Vince was against Punk (remember MITB 2011?), was against Lesnar and against Heyman. He's the cause of this.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 28, 2013 23:49:30 GMT -5
I think the inconsistency is in his megalomania. This is a man who forced a woman to bark like a dog and made wrestlers submit to his will and power by making them kiss his ass. He also openly mocked a beloved announcer's cancer, HBK's religion, and admitted (in character) that he really doesn't care what his audience wants. You can't just flip a switch and make that go away. He's entertaining in a Mr. Burns way, but not at all sympathetic. For everything Vince has done over the years, he's at least gone through phases where he gets the audience and has shown a softer, nicer side of himself. What has Paul Heyman done to endear the audience? ECW ECW ECW... or something
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 28, 2013 23:49:56 GMT -5
Vince almost never came across as a sociopath to me. I liked him better than Austin when they were feuding in the 90's when he seemed like a man who just wanted his business to have a good public face(this is when the feud was just starting of course, before the lousy corporate Ministry stuff.) He's rarely come across as worse than obnoxious to me, and a lot of the attempts to make him the bad guy have really bugged me. Because the fact is, as much as I dislike big business, I do like law & order and he's the one who can dish that out in WWE. I think the inconsistency is in his megalomania. This is a man who forced a woman to bark like a dog and made wrestlers submit to his will and power by making them kiss his ass. He also openly mocked a beloved announcer's cancer, HBK's religion, and admitted (in character) that he really doesn't care what his audience wants. You can't just flip a switch and make that go away. He's entertaining in a Mr. Burns way, but not at all sympathetic. I guess it's just me, but none of that's up there with stuff like what Steve Austin did to Brian Pillman in the 90's. The worse thing there is the mocking of the cancer. I mean look at it this way, making someone bark like the dog is exactly the kind of stuff Ted Dibiase did in his gimmick in the 80's. People cheer him now when he makes a special appearence.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 28, 2013 23:49:59 GMT -5
I think the inconsistency is in his megalomania. This is a man who forced a woman to bark like a dog and made wrestlers submit to his will and power by making them kiss his ass. He also openly mocked a beloved announcer's cancer, HBK's religion, and admitted (in character) that he really doesn't care what his audience wants. You can't just flip a switch and make that go away. He's entertaining in a Mr. Burns way, but not at all sympathetic. For everything Vince has done over the years, he's at least gone through phases where he gets the audience and has shown a softer, nicer side of himself. What has Paul Heyman done to endear the audience? You misunderstand me. I don't think anyone should feel for Heyman. His character is a slimeball. But Vince is too. It'd be like watching a fist fight between Stalin and Hitler and having to root for one. "Can't they maybe just kill each other and we'll clap when it's over?" - Everybody.
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Post by joebob27 on Jan 28, 2013 23:50:17 GMT -5
And next week we'll get the avenger Triple H returning to attempt to fight the Beast Incarnate himself BROCK LESNAR. How many people close to HHH does it take for Lesnar to defeat in order for Hunter to get his win back? That's what this is leading up to. Needless to say, Mr. Ass is gonna get his kicked. There's one thing they could do to get him the heel heat, but I don't think they have the balls to do it. They did it with Orton and it worked.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 28, 2013 23:50:38 GMT -5
If it weren't for Paul Heyman being more genuine about what people like him and Vince do for a living than Vince himself ever has been right before that happened, then maybe there could've been some sympathy there. That's part of it, but let's look at what Vince was doing when Lesnar attacked him: He was in the middle of the ring to personally humiliate somebody. Regardless of whether or not Paul E. deserves it is moot, as Vince revels in schadenfreude, so how can we possibly empathize here at all? emotional pain and physical pain are quite different. That's how
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Post by Error on Jan 28, 2013 23:51:35 GMT -5
That's part of it, but let's look at what Vince was doing when Lesnar attacked him: He was in the middle of the ring to personally humiliate somebody. Regardless of whether or not Paul E. deserves it is moot, as Vince revels in schadenfreude, so how can we possibly empathize here at all? emotional pain and physical pain are quite different. That's how Bullying is bullying and emotional pain can cut far deeper than physical pain. Oh, no one pull the BE A S.T.A.R shit please.
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Lupin the Third
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I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 28, 2013 23:51:38 GMT -5
We? I thought the IWC wasn't a hivemind... I feel sorry for the guy. Punk, Heyman, Brock, hell even the Shield came across as a bunch of meddling heels in that last segment. It validated everything Vince had done to Punk from October on, because in the end, Vince was right all along. I feel sorry for Brad Maddox too, because he was beaten down by three men while he was defenseless. He's also an old man getting attacked by a beast for no reason other than he was about to fire a man partly responsible for tinkering with match outcomes for the past few months now. Vince was trying to better his own company by ridding it of parasites. The character of Vince was completely in the right there, and the live audience cheering him on during that entire segment would probably agree with him there. On point one, WWE wants their Universe to be of one mind. On the rest, Heyman Inc. did what they did because of how Vince treated them. Even before the Maddox stuff, Vince was against Punk (remember MITB 2011?), was against Lesnar and against Heyman. He's the cause of this. You reap what you sow. And what you reap is a MOTHERF***IN' F-5!!!!
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 28, 2013 23:52:05 GMT -5
For everything Vince has done over the years, he's at least gone through phases where he gets the audience and has shown a softer, nicer side of himself. What has Paul Heyman done to endear the audience? You misunderstand me. I don't think anyone should feel for Heyman. His character is a slimeball. But Vince is too. It'd be like watching a fist fight between Stalin and Hitler and having to root for one. "Can't they maybe just kill each other and we'll clap when it's over?" - Everybody. "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. " -Winston Churchill although to be honest I wish they used your logic to have some heel/heel matches occasionally
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 28, 2013 23:53:47 GMT -5
emotional pain and physical pain are quite different. That's how Bullying is bullying and emotional pain can cut far deeper than physical pain. Oh, no one pull the BE A S.T.A.R s*** please. when you're in your late 60's physical pain can lead to something fatal
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Death by Pickles!
Don Corleone
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Post by Death by Pickles! on Jan 28, 2013 23:54:06 GMT -5
From a business perspective, I can sympathize. You've got a group of people who, for the majority of two+ months, have been repeatedly interfering in matches, f***ing up main events, & injuring talent. Orton was *out* for weeks because of the Shield (kayfabe anyway), Sheamus f***s his shoulder up tonight. Cena's Superman, but imagine if he wasn't Kryptonian, & he took that. He's possibly out, & your Wrestlemania main event possibly goes up in flames.
Vince, money-loving business man he is, of course he wanted to nip that s*** in the bud.
EDIT: This post looks so dumb now, sorry Sean.
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Post by Error on Jan 28, 2013 23:54:11 GMT -5
Bullying is bullying and emotional pain can cut far deeper than physical pain. Oh, no one pull the BE A S.T.A.R s*** please. when you're in your late 60's physical pain can lead to something fatal So can emotional pain to anyone.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Jan 28, 2013 23:55:00 GMT -5
We? I thought the IWC wasn't a hivemind... I feel sorry for the guy. Punk, Heyman, Brock, hell even the Shield came across as a bunch of meddling heels in that last segment. It validated everything Vince had done to Punk from October on, because in the end, Vince was right all along. I feel sorry for Brad Maddox too, because he was beaten down by three men while he was defenseless. He's also an old man getting attacked by a beast for no reason other than he was about to fire a man partly responsible for tinkering with match outcomes for the past few months now. Vince was trying to better his own company by ridding it of parasites. The character of Vince was completely in the right there, and the live audience cheering him on during that entire segment would probably agree with him there. On point one, WWE wants their Universe to be of one mind. On the rest, Heyman Inc. did what they did because of how Vince treated them. Even before the Maddox stuff, Vince was against Punk (remember MITB 2011?), was against Lesnar and against Heyman. He's the cause of this. In 2011, Punk threw Vince's entire company into upheaval by shooting on live television and namedropping entirely different promotions on his programming. (Punk has since even admitted he was in it for himself and was selfish about the entire thing and the audience who supported him were stooges) And although it didn't mean much in the long run, Vince lost his position as C.O.O. because he went insane doing whatever it took to make sure CM Punk didn't leave his company with his most valuable possession in the WWE title. Once this happened, he faded away into relative obscurity in all things regarding Punk until Punk himself revealed he didn't care about the people and was going to keep the title and run amok in WWE no matter how much cheating and scheming it would take to accomplish it. Punk even hurt the company's goldenboy Cena and caused an entire PPV main event to go into disarray.
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Post by joebob27 on Jan 28, 2013 23:56:59 GMT -5
Just have Brock break Steph's arm. Problem solved. That's what I'd do if I had the book.
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