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Post by Error on Jan 29, 2013 0:19:13 GMT -5
The man who brought you Dean Ambrose and will bring you El Generico deserves to be avenged!!! Triple H will get his revenge at Mania
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 29, 2013 0:20:41 GMT -5
You misunderstand me. I don't think anyone should feel for Heyman. His character is a slimeball. But Vince is too. It'd be like watching a fist fight between Stalin and Hitler and having to root for one. "Can't they maybe just kill each other and we'll clap when it's over?" - Everybody. I think the idea is, they are both assholes but Vince is our asshole.Twenty thousand people did use to chant it at him nightly.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 29, 2013 0:24:36 GMT -5
They know perfectly well that the crowd's not going to treat Lesnar like a true heel.
McMahon's involvement is just like a microphone. It signifies that something important is happening. I don't think we're supposed to react to him like a real character.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Jan 29, 2013 1:38:01 GMT -5
I liked the ending of RAW, but I can't for the life of me feel sorry or sad for Vince. Hell, any of the McMahons really. Every time they do this kind of build, they end up coming across as unlikeable and smarmy rather than sympathetic -- yet we're supposed to back HHH defending their honor anyway. Who could care that a rotten sociopath like the Vince character gets attacked by someone who doesn't care? In the end its just one evil person (or people) victimizing another. Am I alone on this? Sean, I'd like to say that I love your avatar. I love it because of schadenfreude, because my opinion is that Vince McMahon is a horrible person in real life and on the day that was filmed I got the satisfaction of seeing a guy who caused a lot of real life suffering get a bite in the ass courtesy of karma. (The spiritual concept, of course, not Kia Stevens.) When I feel that way about somebody in real life, no way am I ever gonna sympathize with a character he plays.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 29, 2013 1:42:38 GMT -5
Vince is right up there with WWE's top babyfaces. Vince, Cena, Sheamus & Miz: Major douchebags. I love when they get what's coming to their smartass jerk selves. These are the heroes! What's wrong with this company? Yeah so they should listen to the internet and turn the real life douchebag in CM Punk face so that people can ignore his douchebaggery and cheer him even more
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jan 29, 2013 1:45:57 GMT -5
I'm with you. Babyface Vince is super smarmy and smug. Remember him burying Big Show during the summer as well, calling him and his contract 'useless'?
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Post by flatsdomino on Jan 29, 2013 1:55:04 GMT -5
I think the only time I ever (kayfabe) felt sorry for him was when HHH came out and told him his services were no longer needed. Of course, that went nowhere really. Same here. Vince - and the whole McMahon family, really, but Vince is the most active on-screen character, still, somehow - is pretty much the biggest Mary Sue character in wrestling history, in that he can absolutely do no wrong and should be bowed down to and cheered and praised and stand up for WWE blah blah blah - but he's also the strangest Mary Sue character in wrestling history, as he's only one when he's not basically being SATAN HIMSELF. I guess that's the benefit of being the owner of the whole fn' company - you get to have it your way. But dating back to the second Vince face turn after the Stephanie/HHH wedding, I just couldn't root for a guy who, months earlier, had his daughter abducted so he could get at Stone Cold Steve Austin. And don't even get me started on how after a year's worth of some of the most heinous acts a heel could ever commit, without ever TRULY getting his comeuppance, we were supposed to cheer him during the InVasion as a righteous man defending all that was good against the previously noble Shane McMahon, just because, well, he's Vince McMahon, dammit. And that's just been the trend for years. Throw in a lot of real-life reasons to not embrace Vince as a super-good guy (Heyman, Joey Styles, and Punk's shoots standing as uses of this used in Kayfabe) as well as the fact that, like Triple H, any time he's heavily featured and glorified on the show is somewhat tainted by the fact that you know he's writing the damn thing, making it all come across as one big ego stroke (and he's been getting particularly bad with his ego strokes again during this most recent run, particularly that embarassing "match" with Punk), and it's very hard to sell Vince McMahon as a noble face at all, or get sympathy on him. The night after MITB was a rare example of it done right. I can love crazy bastard Vince, I can love infrequently-appearing figurehead Vince who's not really a character; but Fearless Leader Vince always leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,887
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Post by khali on Jan 29, 2013 2:16:30 GMT -5
Vince's character is absolutely vile, but I can see why he would get sympathy here. Heyman sabotaged numerous matches and nearly injured pretty much all of his top stars. Then he lied to his face about it. When Paul was about to get his (which the live crowd clearly wanted) it got ruined and he was attacked.
Also, it's insane that Vince is still getting involved physically at his age. When Lesnar came out, I thought they would just do the break the arm spot.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
Posts: 6,208
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Post by Toxik916 on Jan 29, 2013 3:21:37 GMT -5
I love Vinny Mac and I want to see HHH destroy Lesnar at Mania.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 11:22:55 GMT -5
I'm no Brock Lesnar fan, but this entire "Vince-face run" has really seemed lame to me.
He was the most hated, devious, bastard the WWE ever created.
Then one day he shows back up and its just like, "Oh snap y'all for no reason at all - I'm a good guy now!"
Not surprising coming from the mind of VKM, but just made his involvement in the Punk/Cena/Ryback angle completely idiotic.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 29, 2013 11:38:33 GMT -5
Neither Vince or Stephanie can be a face. Fans will do the "we're not worthy thing" to Vince, but it's impossible to feel sympathy for either of them. Even Heyman is automatically a face when up against them.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 29, 2013 11:45:40 GMT -5
we're supposed to, but I don't. people often compain about how unlikeable the faces are in WWE, but Vince sticks out to me as the worst. he's supposed to be a cool old guy, but he comes off as a bully. he blatantly stacks matches in the favor of the babyface, making the heel the underdog (and by extension makes people root for the heel, partially because he's the underdog and partially out of spite). and even though he turned out to be right about Punk and Heyman being in league with Maddox and the Shield, he initially made the accusation with no evidence at all, which made him look crazy, and by the time he finally did have evidence, it was long after it would've mattered. furthermore, most fans felt that it was the most boring outcome possible and were hoping Vince was wrong, because then at least things would be interesting. plus he insisted on being booked as if he was somehow on equal footing with CM Punk when before that he'd always let the obviously superior wrestler just beat the hell out of him. considering Punk's WWE's patron "Cool Heel who the fans cheer anyway" and was in the middle of a heel turn the fans didn't want or buy, it should come as no surprise that Vince came off as an asshole. it should come as no surprise that a lot of people just cheered when Brock finally showed up and cleaned his clock (Brock being the OTHER "Cool Heel" certainly had an impact).
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 29, 2013 11:49:56 GMT -5
That's why I laughed at Punk being taken out of the segment. So his mixed heat doesn't screw it up. But sure, the crowd is going to boo Brock Lesnar because he beats up Vince. Makes sense. surrely if we take out one badass heel the crowd loves and replace him with another badass heel the crowd loves the results will be different
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 29, 2013 18:10:31 GMT -5
I'm no Brock Lesnar fan, but this entire "Vince-face run" has really seemed lame to me. He was the most hated, devious, bastard the WWE ever created. Then one day he shows back up and its just like, "Oh snap y'all for no reason at all - I'm a good guy now!" Not surprising coming from the mind of VKM, but just made his involvement in the Punk/Cena/Ryback angle completely idiotic. there was plenty of reason. The Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars were over and those things were the only reason he started acting like he did. Even in storyline, because before that period he never had to deal with the worry his champ would jump ship or deal with someone like Austin
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xxshoyuweeniexx
King Koopa
Going Big and Saying That
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Member is Online
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 29, 2013 18:24:43 GMT -5
I'm no Brock Lesnar fan, but this entire "Vince-face run" has really seemed lame to me. He was the most hated, devious, bastard the WWE ever created. Then one day he shows back up and its just like, "Oh snap y'all for no reason at all - I'm a good guy now!" Not surprising coming from the mind of VKM, but just made his involvement in the Punk/Cena/Ryback angle completely idiotic. there was plenty of reason. The Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars were over and those things were the only reason he started acting like he did. Even in storyline, because before that period he never had to deal with the worry his champ would jump ship or deal with someone like Austin And after that era was over, he still was a devious bastard who mocked religion and other awful things. I think he's over like Ted DiBiase or other old school heels when they come back and get face pops, it's a longevity thing. Who wants to bet Heath Slater gets a large pop in 10 years when he comes back and gets beaten up by 20 time WWE Champion The Bo?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 29, 2013 19:01:28 GMT -5
I'm still.laughin at his initial defiant nose to nose stare with Brock. Like I know he fashions himself as this physical he-man cuz he works out a ton, but shit it's silly looking hin tryim to look like he wants to go toe to toe with a legit badass. It's always been wonky, but now that he's .near 70 it seems more so
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jan 29, 2013 19:07:39 GMT -5
It's funnier because he's old and dresses like a clown
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kolani
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 516
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Post by kolani on Jan 29, 2013 21:20:31 GMT -5
there was plenty of reason. The Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars were over and those things were the only reason he started acting like he did. Even in storyline, because before that period he never had to deal with the worry his champ would jump ship or deal with someone like Austin And after that era was over, he still was a devious bastard who mocked religion and other awful things. I think he's over like Ted DiBiase or other old school heels when they come back and get face pops, it's a longevity thing. Who wants to bet Heath Slater gets a large pop in 10 years when he comes back and gets beaten up by 20 time WWE Champion The Bo? 20 time implies The Bo is going to lose the title once he gets his hands on it. Not gonna happen.
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Post by kingbookermark on Jan 29, 2013 21:31:20 GMT -5
I'm pro- Heyman Punk Shield & Brock Lesnar so I look forward to the end of that thief champion The Rock.
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Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
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Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jan 29, 2013 21:33:46 GMT -5
Like I said in the Raw thread, after that Raw I was kinda glad to see Brock F5 Vince.
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