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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 1, 2013 21:26:40 GMT -5
A heel Cena won't hijack the story if he cites a dislike of Daniel Bryan as the reason for his turning. He could say something like "I've given everything I have, but some of you still boo me. What's worse, you actually cheer for Daniel Bryan. He's a punk. He's nothing compared to me. I've been the face of this company for years. I carried this company when guys like Stone Cold and the Rock left. It's an insult to me for anyone to suggest he's the new face of the WWE. I'm still the man and will be until I decide otherwise"
He could go on to explain that he only picked Bryan to face him at Summerslam because he wanted to please the fans, but while he was injured, the people forgot about him and embraced Daniel Bryan, in spite of everything Cena has done for the WWE. Then have him say that for those fans still part of the CeNation, he still stands for them, for everyone else, they can shove it. This creates tribalism among the fans. Ideally, duelling rivalry between the Bryan fans and the Cena fans. Cena should turn his own fans heel along with him.
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Post by xCompackx on Sept 1, 2013 21:48:09 GMT -5
McMahon/Austin worked because they didn't have all that political BS piled on top of it. McMahon just wanted a champion who would bend to his will, and Austin wasn't that champion. It was easy to follow, and didn't rely on too many political undertones. We didn't get boring promos about how Austin was a "mid card talent at best." It was fun, and we got to live vicariously through Austin as he kicked McMahon's ass every week. All "THIS BUSINESS" talk going on throughout this angle is so dull. I want to see guys kick ass, not discuss marketing agendas and crap like that. Personally, I think the "THIS BUSINESS" stuff is just a natural progression for that concept. With how "real" WWE has been the past few years (something I'm not entirely a fan of), that's just something that comes from that. The basic story is still there, just maybe a bit more hidden.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,796
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Post by fw91 on Sept 1, 2013 22:03:47 GMT -5
people are worried that HHH is gonna "bury" Bryan. Past history warrants worry, but you have to enjoy the ride. This is the best storyline in ages. Not a huge fan of his, but seeing a motivated Orton, is very refreshing. HHH as a corporate heel is a nice change too. Bryan will become a star of this. HHHATE needs to be put aside. With him doing things like getting Bruno in the hall, and whatnot he has a business sense.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 1, 2013 22:33:09 GMT -5
In HHH's defence I would argue that DB has already been elevated to such a height, he can't be buried.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Sept 1, 2013 22:48:35 GMT -5
I think it is a great storyline.
Only thing that spoils it for me is the fear that WWE is going to drop the ball and mess things up like they do with every other angle. It's inevitable that it's going to happen. The only question is how.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 1, 2013 22:49:53 GMT -5
The problem I have with it isn't so much the end result but the fact that there's just no way HHH's heel turn makes any bit of sense. You can slice it any way you want, but the guy arbitrarily attacking Daniel Bryan to allow an Orton cash in makes no sense. It conflicts with every bit of TV we saw leading up to it, where HHH was the even keeled, rational boss character compared to Vince's heel boss.
Further, and I mentioned this before, the big problem with the "best for business" aspect is that it requires the audience to accept two dubious claims: 1) That Bryan would be a Ronnie Garvin style disaster as champion (which wasn't true when he held the belt on SD) and 2) That Orton is this massive draw destined to bring on a new boom period, which is comically and empirically untrue. I guess my point is that the whole angle has already buried Bryan without it being the intent. Even if Orton isn't God's gift to wrestling (and he most assuredly is not), HHH and Vince have already done a masterful job illustrating why Bryan shouldn't be a top guy. It's the Ronnie Garvin argument: The guy is a solid B+ wrestler who is a quality challenger, but we don't seriously want the guy as our champ or face of the company.
Bryan is being buried here on two fronts, the obvious and the abstract. Obvious in that he is being beaten up at the end of every show the the new Corporation. Abstract in that his very role in the company has been deconstructed for the purpose of this storyline, and maybe there are people out there who agree with HHH and Vince that the guy isn't main event material. And the argument isn't that he can't wrestle at a high level...it's that he doesn't fit the look and mold of a mega star franchise player. With Austin his inability to fit the mold Vince wanted made him seem even cooler and more of an anti hero. Bryan is a bearded little guy that they don't want on top.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 22:56:16 GMT -5
I'm not worried about Triple H burying Bryan because I think Bryan has already made it further than I ever thought he would. If he never had big huge success again, he'd still retire comfortably. I just don't like Triple H as a character at all. He's stale. I'm tired of him. Tired of his voice. Tired of his acting. Tired of his hammy self awareness. Tired of all of it and he's a channel changer for me. The problem is that there became enough things that were channel changers to make me not care anymore. Plus, I'm tired of authority figure angles. I've seen it over and over again and just because they're winking at internet rumors this time it doesn't make it any less blah.
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Post by bigalbass86 AKA Smokin Vokoun on Sept 1, 2013 22:57:34 GMT -5
I never want to think about how WWE will screw up again. I know this probably puts me in the "Lets wait and see" crowd, but that's how my mind operates. What's the point of enjoying the show if you have the fear that they are gonna screw up something good. Yes, they have screwed up a lot in the past. I understand that. But if something good comes along, I want to enjoy it as long as it lasts. So yeah, I'm enjoying the story so far.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Sept 1, 2013 22:57:51 GMT -5
I spent over $350 for a pair of 300 level tickets (third party) to attend SummerSlam this year. I had a great time and thought it was a great show. After the ending of Raw the night after, I was ready to stop watching for a while. I'm sure everything has already been said before, but I'll echo the sentiment: This storyline is putting over HHH more than anyone else...and he doesn't need it. Saying that it is unnecessary is an understatement. It is completely uninteresting, unoriginal, and it really sucks the life out of the show. They had been doing a good job of putting Daniel Bryan over prior to this and now it has stopped that push dead in its tracks. Rather than watching and enjoying the rise of a talented Superstar, I'm having to suffer through this beaten to death powerplay storyline that leaves so much to be desired. The booking of the entire roster being out there on the stage not once but twice while DB got the beatdown is an embarrassment. Obviously it is leading to a more complex angle involving other performers but it suffered from sloppy writing and poor refinement. HHH and Vince should have threatened the entire roster THE FIRST WEEK. Additionally, making these "tough" competitors who are presented as "stars" look like inferior, job-scared cowards is to the benefit of absolutely no one. It becomes impossible to suspend disbelief and does a lot to ruin the mystique of both the babyface and the hell characters. This storyline is really sucking the fun out of this for me as a fan. I really don't see how HHH is getting more over due to this storyline. Yeah, he's getting boos but I'd say a majority of the hate is aimed at Orton and the Shield. If anyone is getting putting over, it's Bryan. Yes, he's being left a broken mess to end a few shows but he's getting more and more support from the fans. He push is far from 'stopped in its tracks' because he's being built up as the underdog who will take down this entire corrupted regime. As for the roster, I don't see anything wrong with what's happened so far. As others have stated, Bryan isn't exactly know for having too many friends aside from Kane (who's currently MIA due to the Wyatt Family) so most of the guys shouldn't be willing to risk anything to help them. Only the week after HHH had those who spoke out about his treatment of Bryan taken out by the Shield did things start to change. Having done that, those guys were visibly upset at having to watch the next Bryan beatdown. That will further the storyline into their rebellion. And yes, they should be scared for their jobs in kayfabe. HHH has shown in the past that he's not afraid of people walking out on the WWE, so I doubt he'd be worried about firing a dozen or so of them. If this same thing continues to happen for another month, then people should have a reason to complain. As it is now, I think the WWE has handled things pretty damn well.
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,377
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Post by Rave on Sept 1, 2013 23:07:08 GMT -5
One problem I have with it is that it's less "That dastardly Orton stole the title after the biggest match of Bryan's career with the help of Triple H!" and more "LOOK AT TRIPLE H AND WHAT HE DID! Oh, and someone won the title afterward, but TRIPLE H!", plus that whole line about the title being Trips' personal property and how Orton's just carrying it for him. I am beyond tired of Trips being pushed as the end-all be-all. Another problem I have with it is any and all references to Orton being "the future of the company", though that might just be their intent. If you've got a ten time champion who's been around for eleven years, he's not the future in any way. It's like TNA calling AJ Styles the same thing. It sounds stupid.
On the bright side, at least they're no longer trying to make Trips sympathetic, plus it's the first storyline in years that's made me give a damn about Big Show, though that rumored Show/Trips match might kill that off again.
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Chris
AC Slater
Posts: 175
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Post by Chris on Sept 1, 2013 23:15:37 GMT -5
I spent over $350 for a pair of 300 level tickets (third party) to attend SummerSlam this year. I had a great time and thought it was a great show. After the ending of Raw the night after, I was ready to stop watching for a while. I'm sure everything has already been said before, but I'll echo the sentiment: This storyline is putting over HHH more than anyone else...and he doesn't need it. Saying that it is unnecessary is an understatement. It is completely uninteresting, unoriginal, and it really sucks the life out of the show. They had been doing a good job of putting Daniel Bryan over prior to this and now it has stopped that push dead in its tracks. Rather than watching and enjoying the rise of a talented Superstar, I'm having to suffer through this beaten to death powerplay storyline that leaves so much to be desired. The booking of the entire roster being out there on the stage not once but twice while DB got the beatdown is an embarrassment. Obviously it is leading to a more complex angle involving other performers but it suffered from sloppy writing and poor refinement. HHH and Vince should have threatened the entire roster THE FIRST WEEK. Additionally, making these "tough" competitors who are presented as "stars" look like inferior, job-scared cowards is to the benefit of absolutely no one. It becomes impossible to suspend disbelief and does a lot to ruin the mystique of both the babyface and the hell characters. This storyline is really sucking the fun out of this for me as a fan. I really don't see how HHH is getting more over due to this storyline. Yeah, he's getting boos but I'd say a majority of the hate is aimed at Orton and the Shield. If anyone is getting putting over, it's Bryan. Yes, he's being left a broken mess to end a few shows but he's getting more and more support from the fans. He push is far from 'stopped in its tracks' because he's being built up as the underdog who will take down this entire corrupted regime. As for the roster, I don't see anything wrong with what's happened so far. As others have stated, Bryan isn't exactly know for having too many friends aside from Kane (who's currently MIA due to the Wyatt Family) so most of the guys shouldn't be willing to risk anything to help them. Only the week after HHH had those who spoke out about his treatment of Bryan taken out by the Shield did things start to change. Having done that, those guys were visibly upset at having to watch the next Bryan beatdown. That will further the storyline into their rebellion. And yes, they should be scared for their jobs in kayfabe. HHH has shown in the past that he's not afraid of people walking out on the WWE, so I doubt he'd be worried about firing a dozen or so of them. If this same thing continues to happen for another month, then people should have a reason to complain. As it is now, I think the WWE has handled things pretty damn well. If you don't see that then I cannot help you. I wish I could be blissfully unaware of what is going on but that isn't the case. I'm happy for you that this meets your needs as a viewer but they could be and should be doing a lot better with it instead of turning it into the Triple H show.
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Post by thegame415 on Sept 1, 2013 23:41:43 GMT -5
My quesion is how should it be booked: Bryan dominating everyone? Then, people would complain about how he wins all the time just like they do Cena.
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on Sept 1, 2013 23:49:54 GMT -5
My quesion is how should it be booked: Bryan dominating everyone? Then, people would complain about how he wins all the time just like they do Cena. Bryan going around and murdering Orton, The Shield, and Hunner on a weekly basis would be satisfying to watch, but then it would get pretty old as there wouldn't be any tension created from it. The current direction of the angle we've got at the moment does that tension-creating job well.
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Post by thegame415 on Sept 1, 2013 23:55:57 GMT -5
My quesion is how should it be booked: Bryan dominating everyone? Then, people would complain about how he wins all the time just like they do Cena. Bryan going around and murdering Orton, The Shield, and Hunner on a weekly basis would be satisfying to watch, but then it would get pretty old as there wouldn't be any tension created from it. The current direction of the angle we've got at the moment does that tension-creating job well. I agree. I think no matter what, the IWC will never be happy. Actually, the Internet will never be happy.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Sept 2, 2013 0:04:56 GMT -5
Some people just don't trust WWE when it comes to HHH stories. I used to trust them...but their track record doesn't give me much hope. True enough. Somehow, you almost figure this ends with HHH somehow with the belt, Orton chasing him, and Daniel Bryan a footnote. That said, I like where this is going, and Orton makes the perfect POS heel.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Sept 2, 2013 1:26:29 GMT -5
I'm glad Bryan has gotten a little chance to shine like he has. However, I'm already ready for Cena to come back so they can begin preparations for his match against Orton at WrestleMania.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 2, 2013 1:33:08 GMT -5
I just don't have faith in the booking. Since 2004, we've heard that Orton is "the future of dis business" and not just in cheesy, overdone promos from Trips either. It's been "Orton/Cena headline 'Mania" for almost a decade, and so now we've got Orton on top as the corporate champion, Cena out injured, and I'm really wanting to hold out hope that maybe they'll say "we've got someone who connected with the audience, like all of it, let's run with it" but I just can't do it.
Trips will remain the focal point, since he's an "Attitude Era star", and I just see Cena winning the Rumble (again) with a "surprise" return. Bryan will challenge for the title until then, and I even see him winning it but Orton WILL win the Rumble title match, either retaining in a "last chance for D-Bry" or beating him via shenanigans, only t have Cena close the show by getting the title shot to "make everything right again".
I don't want to be right, but it's paint by numbers at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 2:21:02 GMT -5
Bryan going around and murdering Orton, The Shield, and Hunner on a weekly basis would be satisfying to watch, but then it would get pretty old as there wouldn't be any tension created from it. The current direction of the angle we've got at the moment does that tension-creating job well. I agree. I think no matter what, the IWC will never be happy. Actually, the Internet will never be happy. ...Of course it won't. It's a stupid expectation that it ever will be. There are piles of different people, with piles of different opinions. I hate it when people do this stupid thing where they act like the IWC all think the same thing and that because posters they read aren't meeting their assumed idea of how the internet feels about an idea the "internet will never be happy"
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 2, 2013 2:23:51 GMT -5
I think it's great for the sheer fact that Orton and Triple H are the bad guys. This isn't like 2011 when babyface Triple H came in and confused the audience as to whether or not CM Punk was a good guy. WWE wants the audience to outright hate Triple H and Orton, which is a breath of fresh air.
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Post by cool guy on Sept 2, 2013 2:35:20 GMT -5
The reason the Austin/McMahon storyline was so successful was that it was cathartic to see Austin constantly and utterly destroying and embarrassing these corporate stuffed-shirts who kept trying (and failing) to hold him down. It wasn't so much a "will the underdog finally defeat the corporate machine" story as it was like watching a Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote cartoon. McMahon almost always came away looking weak and foolish in this angle, which was what made people so eager to see Austin get his hands on him, and I can't see HHH doing that. I get the blurred kayfabe/reality angle, but if you can't have 1997 Vince McMahon, you almost need a guy like Johnny Ace or Paul Heyman in the role - some slimy character who surrounds himself with tougher guys like Orton and the Shield while the crowd clamors to see Bryan finally get to him. The "Ultimate Ass-kicker" just doesn't work in that role. See, some of this is actually why I like the angle. McMahon was a cartoon character, Triple H is a villain. I've never wanted to see a wrestling character get beat up this badly, so as long as they deliver the payoff this whole thing will have turned out wonderfully. I see some people complaining that this is a rehash, and to an extent that's true, but it's a stylish and well-done rehash that's doing a lot to distinguish itself from the original.
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