|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 11, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -5
It's another one of those self loathing aspects that comes up a lot in wrestling. You've got to be passionate about the business but not too much or you're a saddo. It's very odd. and, if we're being honest, if this IS a view held by the wrestling industry, then they deserve to be told they're stupid for holding it. god forbid you hire someone who actually wants to be there and actually cares about putting on the best show possible. and it's not like she's doing it for free.
|
|
|
Post by heyguesswhatidid on Sept 11, 2013 9:36:50 GMT -5
What if Tommy Rich had gotten a tattoo? or any number of transitional champs? If it meant a lot to them, it would be fine.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 11, 2013 9:39:22 GMT -5
as for people saying "oh Kelly Kelly's a former Divas champ, so the belt sucks and has no prestige" I say "yes, because the WCW, WWE, AWA, NWA, NJPW, AJPW, TNA and ECW Heavyweight titles were never ever held by sub-par talents at any time in their lineage either".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 9:39:34 GMT -5
What if Tommy Rich had gotten a tattoo? or any number of transitional champs? If it meant a lot to them, it would be fine. What if HHH did it?
|
|
|
Post by heyguesswhatidid on Sept 11, 2013 9:51:05 GMT -5
If it meant a lot to them, it would be fine. What if HHH did it? That would be fine. I'm not one to tell him what to do with his body or tell him to compromise his personal feelings. Actually, if HHH had gotten his first WWE title win date tattooed on his body soon after he won it, it would very meaningful after he felt that he was going to be held down for years. He broke out on his own when he got the chance to run with DX and made himself into a star. He was already a high profile star before he got with Stephanie in real life. That's what led to him having the story with her that led to his real life relationship.
|
|
Lardlad
El Dandy
Live reaction to @WWE #WWENetwork
Posts: 8,272
|
Post by Lardlad on Sept 11, 2013 14:25:16 GMT -5
Meltzer just added another response to the same subject on the F4W message board:
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Sept 11, 2013 14:39:06 GMT -5
That didn't clarify anything. And unlike Brock, this was her main goal. Lesnar is just a c***.
I didn't see Meltzer being a jerk until that rambling retort.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 11, 2013 14:43:30 GMT -5
Swing and a miss, Dave.
|
|
Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
|
Post by Sektor on Sept 11, 2013 15:03:10 GMT -5
So AJ really just wanted to become a decorated amateur wrestler but failed and then went to WWE instead? Man, that comparison really sucked.
|
|
|
Post by cool guy on Sept 11, 2013 15:10:24 GMT -5
Meltzer just added another response to the same subject on the F4W message board: Meltzer is a moron. Let me give a better comparison. This is like an actor who wants to someday win an academy award getting a tattoo to commemorate her first starring role in a film. It may not be the highest goal achievable, but it's still important to her for clear reasons, so shut the f*** up, Dave.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Sept 11, 2013 15:13:45 GMT -5
Oof, Meltzer, word salad much? That explanation barely meant anything. However, it's a cumulative effect, and in an industry where wrestlers NEED to band together to be treated fairly, gestures like tattooing the date of your first title win, again, particularly for a title that's considered unimportant by the company, offers the company a potential weakness to exploit. This is far less a condemnation of AJ, however, than a condemnation of the wrestling industry as a whole. I think Meltzer was kind of looking at this sadly from a "man, these wrestlers just make life harder for themselves" perspective, but again, he said it in a condescending way that hardly seemed appropriate. There is literally nothing AJ Lee or anyone can do to actually make the WWE see its female talent as MORE replaceable or unimportant. I kind of see your point, but the levels of respect that the WWE has for its female wrestlers is already at negative infinity. Practically speaking, she just doesn't have the power to lower it. But here's the other thing, I think this "belt mark" thing is a false villain. Wrestlers don't debase themselves because they're fans. They debase themselves because they buy into the FALSE COMPETITION. They buy into the mindset that the stars are the ones who Worked Their Way Up and Really Deserve It, so they never fully trust one another, and the egregious, cut-throat unfairness of the bosses and bookers is just part of the game. There are no rational reasons to actually become a wrestler. Well... I take that back. If you look like Tor Johnson or Bam Bam Bigelow or someone, you might as well become a wrestler. But for most people, it's objectively an awful job. But the percent of Fan-wrestlers is lower than the percent of people who apply the sports mindset to pro wrestling, and THAT is what keeps them from organizing. ...I do like how just a given here is that the bosses of the WWE are just pure evil who will gleefully exploit anyone they can get away with exploiting. I get what you're saying at least if we focus particularly on the women; however, I do have to believe that people like AJ at least have the potential to be viewed differently given that she has legitimate training and experience in the industry pre-WWE. But yes, on the women's division in particular, the company does nothing to make them appear anything less than expendable, even despite the reality show. Again, the point is just more that the industry is mostly filled with sharks who will dive in at the first scent of blood in the water, and sadly exuberance for the industry with a fan-like point of view is often viewed as something exploitable. As for the last sentence...sadly, yeah, that's basically how a company like WWE will most often operate. Business is business, after all; if they feel they can let somebody go and replace them cheaply, if they feel they can get the talent to work more dates for less pay, if they feel any number of things that will improve the bottom line, they'll pursue it. That's just business in general, but wrestling has a historically awful track record of doing that at the expense of the wrestlers' well-being. I don't really view wrestlers who take genuine pride in being trusted with <whatever> title as "problems"; their emotions are genuine, their excitement is genuine, their dedication to the craft is most likely genuine as well. However, again, it's about being aware of the twisted world of wrestling backstage politics, and how even the most seemingly innocuous thing can have a negative effect on yourself or those around you. How many stories have we heard that basically amount to "so-and-so was depushed because he accidentally spilled water near Randy Orton's favorite Chaucer compendium" or whatever? It's just lunacy, and I think being aware of how the office might exploit you is a way that wrestlers can stand together, and make it clear they will not be taken advantage of. That said, you're absolutely right: the delusion that "the best always rise to the top" in pro wrestling does create more disunion that almost any other factor among wrestlers, and it has to go.
|
|
FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,524
|
Post by FinalGwen on Sept 11, 2013 15:13:53 GMT -5
Has Meltzer ever won any accomplishments or awards in his life? If so, is he going to say they count for nothing because he's reporting on a fake sport? Somehow I doubt it.
|
|
|
Post by wallabylikeyou on Sept 11, 2013 15:32:29 GMT -5
I don't know what people in wrestling want sometimes. They want professionals with a passion for 'the business' but people who act like asses get pushed and people with passion are looked down on. I'm not even sure what Meltzer's point is anymore since he's muddled it further with each clarification.
AJ wanted to do a thing, then did it, then felt proud for having got it done. Good for her. Whether she wants to commemorate it with a tattoo or a nice meal or by patting herself on the back doesn't really affect me in any way, so...whatever.
|
|
|
Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on Sept 11, 2013 15:41:33 GMT -5
Meltzer wants so badly to be one of the boys...
|
|
|
Post by Super Weak Machine on Sept 11, 2013 16:05:02 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how big or small it is; if what you've accomplished is a dream you've had ever since you were a child, who's to say that it isn't important? Who's to say that you can't celebrate it? It's not anybody's business to tell you that it shouldn't mean anything to you.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,266
|
Post by chazraps on Sept 11, 2013 16:13:07 GMT -5
Why does my cell phone offer "Meltzer" as a suggestion when I type "Melt?" I've never texted anyone his name prior to today, and I just went to send my thoughts on that weird word salad of a response of his to someone and his actual name was an auto-complete option.
Also, that response with the horrible comparison shows he's pretty clearly a jerk in this scenario.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 16:41:33 GMT -5
I've been staying out of this thread for the most part because it's silly all the way around, but what the hell does this even mean?
|
|
Lardlad
El Dandy
Live reaction to @WWE #WWENetwork
Posts: 8,272
|
Post by Lardlad on Sept 11, 2013 17:04:49 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer... the guy who created his own wrestling Hall of Fame...
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 11, 2013 17:30:32 GMT -5
Each explanation Meltzer gives, the more smugness he emits. So because someone didn't accomplish something in the real world, they should not be proud of their success in pro wrestling and take pride in that? Just say you think her tattoo is dumb, Dave. Stop digging yourself further in the hole.
|
|
|
Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Sept 11, 2013 17:41:18 GMT -5
At this point, I would copyedit Meltzer for f***ing free if it meant he stopped writing in glorified word salad.
|
|