Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 17:50:19 GMT -5
I've been staying out of this thread for the most part because it's silly all the way around, but what the hell does this even mean? I think? he's saying AJ is that child, and she had been in a bigger spot before as Raw GM, so why does she care so much about this? But...there's way too much extraneous bullshit in there for me to be sure. Meltzer seems like he's overheating or something, he's way over-complicating this in his head. She had a goal, she accomplished it, she got a tattoo. No ficitious scripted Nobel Prize for Medicine analogies needed, pal.
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Post by celticjobber on Sept 11, 2013 18:20:51 GMT -5
Meltzer just added another response to the same subject on the F4W message board: His comparison makes no sense whatsoever. It's more like an actor getting a tattoo of the date they won an Oscar, or the date they landed a huge role in a movie. I've always thought Dave jammed all of that UFC crap that I don't care about into the Wrestling Observer because he has a huge inferiority complex about covering "fake shit" like pro wrestling. This only confirms it. He's still the best pro wrestling reporter, but he's biased as f*** on some subjects (it's obvious from this and other things that he doesn't like AJ Lee, for example). And he's more than a bit smug.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,090
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Post by chazraps on Sept 11, 2013 18:25:57 GMT -5
Meltzer just added another response to the same subject on the F4W message board: His comparison makes no sense whatsoever. It's more like an actor getting a tattoo of the date they won an Oscar, or the date they landed a huge role in a movie. I've always thought Dave jammed all of that UFC crap that I don't care about into the Wrestling Observer because he has a huge inferiority complex about covering "fake shit" like pro wrestling. This only confirms it. He's still the best pro wrestling reporter, but he's biased as f*** on some subjects (it's obvious from this and other things that he doesn't like AJ Lee, for example). And he's more than a bit smug. At this point, I disagree. Peter Rosenberg has surpassed him.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 11, 2013 18:44:59 GMT -5
Plus, even if AJ was in a bigger spot as Raw GM, it doesn't change that being a titleholder just means something more. Even if being a "belt mark" is one thing in the business, it is something that can't easily be taken away from the performer. I believe Roddy Piper wrote in his book that, even though he was a main eventer throughout the '80s, he asked for his IC Title reign in 1992 because in the same "old school" viewpoint a "belt mark" comes from: if you're a main eventer for years, but you never actually held a title belt, your impact on the company can be wiped away as completely inconsequential, no matter how big a star you were. If you held a title, however, you're always going to be a part of the company's history.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Sept 11, 2013 19:50:39 GMT -5
The Lesnar comparison, much like this entire situation, is ludicrous. Lesnar didn't give a shit about winning the title, based on his comment, and the fact that he left WWE to try the NFL and MMA. AJ is the case of someone living out their childhood dream. Its apples and oranges.
Dave should just quit reporting on wrestling and blow Dana White full time, or answer with "ummmm, I don't know" as a full time gig on the LAW.
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Post by Manute Bol on Sept 11, 2013 20:23:55 GMT -5
His comparison makes no sense whatsoever. It's more like an actor getting a tattoo of the date they won an Oscar, or the date they landed a huge role in a movie. I've always thought Dave jammed all of that UFC crap that I don't care about into the Wrestling Observer because he has a huge inferiority complex about covering "fake shit" like pro wrestling. This only confirms it. He's still the best pro wrestling reporter, but he's biased as f*** on some subjects (it's obvious from this and other things that he doesn't like AJ Lee, for example). And he's more than a bit smug. At this point, I disagree. Peter Rosenberg has surpassed him. Rosenberg does fantastic interviews, but I wouldn't really consider him a wrestling reporter in the same sense as Meltzer. Rosenberg has been able to incorporate his position at a radio station with his passion for wrestling, but to call him a wrestling reporter is quite a stretch.
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deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
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Post by deancubed on Sept 12, 2013 5:05:18 GMT -5
When I was a kid, I loved listening to rap music. I particularly loved listening to the Beastie Boys. A couple years ago I released a rap album, just because I wanted to. It made me just enough money to cover the expense of making it, and it was up on iTunes for about a year, and it was fun to promote and share with people. So, you can imagine that I'm someone that really likes rap and hip-hop culture and the people that make rap music. Ever since I was a kid. That's a true story. But here's another...
For a moment, imagine I work at a record label. Someone with decision making power at this big company noticed my album and liked what I was doing. This label is known for tons of artists of all kinds, and if you are anyone in the rap industry, at some point you are signed to these guys. So there's this wall, and the photos of the artists that went gold are up next to a gold record, and lots of people love coming to this record label's lobby to look at them. Keep in mind that these gold records aren't real, it's not based on album sales, it's just a fun tourist trap. So let's say this executive says 'I have a feeling that your album might be the kind of thing that is hot right now. Can we sign you?'
Now, I didn't push them to sign me, and while I worked hard at what I did and I looked up to everyone on that wall, I didn't make a Jay-Z record. My album was (and this is true) full of songs about being a geek. There's a song about picking up chicks on World of Warcraft, there's a song about living in my parent's basement. I didn't go through any childhood struggle or trauma compared to say, Eminem, or Tupac. But I have had struggles in my life, and people that know me, know what those struggles are.
So the label decides to push me a bit and they do a video for the 'parent's basement' song - or better yet, say I wrote a rap song about buying cheap clothes at a Thrift Shop. Recording that song wasn't something I was trying to be successful with, and the video was just a job that I got paid for, although I admit I had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. But what no one predicted was that this video gets viral on Youtube. It's not Gangnam Style, it's not the hottest thing ever, but it's a big deal for a few months one summer.
Now, suddenly my picture gets put up on the wall along with a gold record. Some tourists that check out this wall even snap a photo of MY record on the wall. And I celebrate this thing. Keep in mind that these gold records aren't real, it's not based on album sales, it's just a fun tourist trap. I didn't do much - executives made all the big decisions and they were the ones that put me out there. All I did was write a fun rap song, and it wasn't the best thing ever but it made people smile for a few months. And at no point did I tell anyone I was the next Jay Z or Eminem. I'm not even T-Pain. I'm not even Will Smith. I'm not even a Marky Mark. Pun intended.
But I'm happy! I got the date they put my record on the wall tattooed on the back of my neck because my name is officially associated with that company that at one point signed the Beastie Boys and all my childhood heroes. My photo is on the same wall as Jay-Z's photo! I made a comedy record and not a 'Real' rap record but still it was a fun year enjoying my 15 minutes of fame! Keep in mind that these gold records aren't real, it's not based on album sales, it's just a fun tourist trap.
And then a music critic (not a musician) that writes for Rolling Stone visits the lobby one day, and says -
"I don't know what that kid's so happy about. I bet it rubs people the wrong way that he got that tattoo, I mean, he might never make a lasting impact on this business! He's a fad for a year, and he's proud that his photo is on this wall way over here in the comedy section next to Weird Al, Tenacious D, and Denis Leary's one song? He's not even in the real rappers section with Biggie and Pac! What a naive kid! I bet this company is screwing with his paycheck because they know he was going to bend over backwards for them just to put his photo on this wall! These records aren't even real gold records! It's just a tourist trap! What a naive kid! Some people would say he doesn't even respect the rap industry!"
I can only imagine the crap he'd have said if I was also a girl rapper...
The End.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 12, 2013 6:20:03 GMT -5
Is there any other business like wrestling that hates its fans so much?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 6:55:43 GMT -5
Is there any other business like wrestling that hates its fans so much? The video games industry and, depending on what town you live in, NFL football.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Sept 12, 2013 7:39:53 GMT -5
See mindsets like these are what's really turning me off wrestling as a whole. Too much juvenile shenanigans backstage and childish behaviour that gets in the way of the on screen product and (in turn) the fan's enjoyment of the whole show.
"We're looking for someone to be passionate about what they do for a living!"
"There's one over there!"
"Nah we can't have anyone care TOO much about wrestling. What a mark!"
I don't see this problem with any other profession or hobby for that matter. The wrestling business as a whole needs to get with the times and stop worrying about what goes on backstage with any of the wrestler's personal lives and just get on with business as normal. Unless it interferes with a wrestler's business life why should they have to be forced to walk on their tip toes whenever they're in private just to make sure they don't get screwed off by some old jack off who's jealous of the fact that they're wrestling and he's not?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 12, 2013 8:13:27 GMT -5
Is there any other business like wrestling that hates its fans so much? Based on where these screwed-up wrestling mentalities come from, I'm going to guess carnies.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 12, 2013 9:19:43 GMT -5
Is there any other business like wrestling that hates its fans so much? Based on where these screwed-up wrestling mentalities come from, I'm going to guess carnies. I think with wrestling it all goes back to the fact that it used to be a way or tricking people into giving up money for what was a work. the term "mark" basically means "moron whose easily parted from his money". so even though the cat's been out of the bag for like 30+ years, the mentality that wrestling fans are still morons who are worthy of nothing but contempt for being stupid hasn't gone away. it is f***ing stupid, but that's the wrestling industry for you.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Sept 12, 2013 10:11:30 GMT -5
Is there any other business like wrestling that hates its fans so much? Microsoft takes the cake as far as hating it's fans is concerned.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,623
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Post by PKO on Sept 12, 2013 10:29:52 GMT -5
A lot of people write a lot of stupid stuff about wrestling, but this is one of the stupidest things I've read.
And badly written too.
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Post by corndog on Sept 12, 2013 11:41:26 GMT -5
I've been staying out of this thread for the most part because it's silly all the way around, but what the hell does this even mean? I think? he's saying AJ is that child, and she had been in a bigger spot before as Raw GM, so why does she care so much about this? But...there's way too much extraneous bullshit in there for me to be sure. Meltzer seems like he's overheating or something, he's way over-complicating this in his head. She had a goal, she accomplished it, she got a tattoo. No ficitious scripted Nobel Prize for Medicine analogies needed, pal. He overcomplicated it, but yeah that's what I got. He definitely should have kept it simple, but people kept arguing it and he had to try and compare it to real life scenarios. Also hate to burst most people's bubble, but Meltzer knows the business much better than we do. He's not always right, but he has seen how things work, and worked closely with it for a very long time. There may be a few in here, having worked in the business or seriously reporting on it, other than that, most of us know far less about how the business works than he does. I did notice in the commentary they were making fun of AJ about the tatoo, and then made fun of her about main eventing Raw. You just have to put two and two together. I guess you could throw NXT 3 in there as well to show what the WWE thinks of their Divas division. The fact is, not too long ago, AJ was involved in main event storylines, essentially she was bigger than the Divas division. I f this was the Divas division 7-10 years ago, okay it's a very big accomplishment. If AJ did nothing more than won the title and disappeared, I would understand her thinking it's a big deal. But if anything, it's a been a step back for her. She is bigger than the title, not the other way around and basically what he is a saying is that AJ marking out for a belt she has already outdone in her career makes her a mark. Wow, I guess it is easy to overcomplicate things when explaining this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 11:46:16 GMT -5
Now, I didn't push them to sign me, and while I worked hard at what I did and I looked up to everyone on that wall, I didn't make a Jay-Z record. My album was (and this is true) full of songs about being a geek. There's a song about picking up chicks on World of Warcraft, there's a song about living in my parent's basement. I didn't go through any childhood struggle or trauma compared to say, Eminem, or Tupac. But I have had struggles in my life, and people that know me, know what those struggles are. The End. Can I have a link to your music? I quite like some of the "nerdcore" stuff
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Sept 12, 2013 11:53:25 GMT -5
I don't see whats so wrong about what he said. He's stating what the perception is backstage when it comes to being a mark for a belt in the wrestling business and aj essencially marking for her accomplishment. I guess i missed the point that's got so many people up in arms about this, but i don't understand why people are so upset about the comments other than it having to do with aj.
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Post by gnr123 on Sept 12, 2013 12:09:59 GMT -5
I think? he's saying AJ is that child, and she had been in a bigger spot before as Raw GM, so why does she care so much about this? But...there's way too much extraneous bullshit in there for me to be sure. Meltzer seems like he's overheating or something, he's way over-complicating this in his head. She had a goal, she accomplished it, she got a tattoo. No ficitious scripted Nobel Prize for Medicine analogies needed, pal. He overcomplicated it, but yeah that's what I got. He definitely should have kept it simple, but people kept arguing it and he had to try and compare it to real life scenarios. Also hate to burst most people's bubble, but Meltzer knows the business much better than we do. He's not always right, but he has seen how things work, and worked closely with it for a very long time. There may be a few in here, having worked in the business or seriously reporting on it, other than that, most of us know far less about how the business works than he does. I did notice in the commentary they were making fun of AJ about the tatoo, and then made fun of her about main eventing Raw. You just have to put two and two together. I guess you could throw NXT 3 in there as well to show what the WWE thinks of their Divas division. The fact is, not too long ago, AJ was involved in main event storylines, essentially she was bigger than the Divas division. I f this was the Divas division 7-10 years ago, okay it's a very big accomplishment. If AJ did nothing more than won the title and disappeared, I would understand her thinking it's a big deal. But if anything, it's a been a step back for her. She is bigger than the title, not the other way around and basically what he is a saying is that AJ marking out for a belt she has already outdone in her career makes her a mark. Wow, I guess it is easy to overcomplicate things when explaining this. If it was 7-10 years ago doesn't mean dick. She had a goal and she accomplished it, that's all tat matter's. Meltzer is looking far to into this and acting like she's a mark for having a tattoo of the day she won the belt. She's obviously a huge fan of wrestling, and she made it to the top of the Diva's division. Sure, people are going to be like "so what?" But, to her it's a big accomplishment. And in the end of the day that's all the matters.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 12:10:56 GMT -5
I don't see whats so wrong about what he said. He's stating what the perception is backstage when it comes to being a mark for a belt in the wrestling business and aj essencially marking for her accomplishment. I guess i missed the point that's got so many people up in arms about this, but i don't understand why people are so upset about the comments other than it having to do with aj. You don't agree with people being up in arms about it or you literally don't understand why? 'Cause I'm just telling you, there's been like a dozen different people who all said why this makes the wrestling business look like some carnival shit run by man-children and they wish it'd grow up.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Sept 12, 2013 12:27:29 GMT -5
Meltzer comes across as a prick here. And honestly, if I had achieved my dream of becoming a pro wrestler in the WWE... I'd want to remember the date of any title win (no matter how minor the title)too. I don't think AJ's tattoo is dumb.
Plenty of wrestlers have worse tattoos.
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