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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Sept 10, 2013 18:50:36 GMT -5
For a woman, the divas/womans title is the highest honor they can get. No, that's Playboy. For a woman wrestler.....that is.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Sept 10, 2013 18:51:20 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't care about AJ that much. I just think the idea of an employer mocking his employees for loving his or her job is messed up. I know wrestling culture is weird to put it mildly, but like, really? No. I could see it. Imagine, running a business, or just working for a company and one of your coworkers/employees just tend to love it a bit too much. Living in Southern California, I have one or two friends who are pretty much psychotic about Disneyland. One of them used to work there (until he got fired for reasons he will not pubilicly admit). He left bitterly, yet still goes on and on about the virtues of Disnely and continually goes there every couple of days. I can imagine working with this guy, and their coworkers and bosses go "dude, calm down. You're here every day. After all the nonsense you've seen, this place shouldn't still be so magical. How old are you?". There's surely a fine line between "happy about job person still works" and "borderline psychotic about job that he doesn't have anymore" though. The concept of making fun of people who are happy to win belts is less comparable to psycho Mickey Mouse and more comparable to an actor who fist pumps when he finds his character got a cool battle scene when he wins a plot thing.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Sept 10, 2013 18:51:23 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't care about AJ that much. I just think the idea of an employer mocking his employees for loving his or her job is messed up. I know wrestling culture is weird to put it mildly, but like, really? No. I could see it. Imagine, running a business, or just working for a company and one of your coworkers/employees just tend to love it a bit too much. Living in Southern California, I have one or two friends who are pretty much psychotic about Disneyland. One of them used to work there (until he got fired for reasons he will not pubilicly admit). He left bitterly, yet still goes on and on about the virtues of Disnely and continually goes there every couple of days. I can imagine working with this guy, and their coworkers and bosses go "dude, calm down. You're here every day. After all the nonsense you've seen, this place shouldn't still be so magical. How old are you?". That analogy doesn't work here. Your friend didn't work their whole life sacrificing their body and time just for an opportunity to be in the company. It's not like AJ just sent her resume into the WWE and got in and was handed the title. She is "marking" out so much for her title win because of all the hard work she put into it and her dreams finally got realized.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Sept 10, 2013 18:53:58 GMT -5
It's funny to me because a lot of people in this thread defending AJ are people who a few months ago were laughing at Bret in the Wrest Of Wrestling section and calling him a mark simply because he had a room in his house with a replica belt and a photo of him winning the belt in it. This is indeed a simple case of AJ being protected species on this board.
As for what I think in regards to the tattoo I agree with Meltzer. She should not take a fake title win so seriously. I guess it'd be the equivalent of someone receiving a small supporting role in the next Batman movie and then getting a Batman tattoo on them or maybe the bat mobile or another random prop from the film on it. Would that be weird? Yes. It's mark behaviour and someone in AJ's early days in the business probably should of got that out of her very quickly.
I just feel bad for her 3-4 years down the track when she stops marking out for the fact she's a WWE Superstar and see's it just as a job but still has the dumb tattoo
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Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Sept 10, 2013 18:57:12 GMT -5
It's funny to me because a lot of people in this thread defending AJ are people who a few months ago were laughing at Bret in the Wrest Of Wrestling section and calling him a mark simply because he had a room in his house with a replica belt and a photo of him winning the belt in it. This is indeed a simple case of AJ being protected species on this board. Yeah, no way that this is hyperbole or totally untrue. Anecdotes make great supporting facts.
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BigBadZ
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Post by BigBadZ on Sept 10, 2013 18:59:37 GMT -5
I can't go through the whole thread right now, but I wonder if the Undertaker had tattoos from when he won them. I know it's highly unlikely but how would this view of "pros" or "fans on the roster" change? Plus my mental image of Taker pointing to his left arm and saying "this guy here represents that time I took Big Show through Death Valley and won the tag titles, but for a short time I also considered eating him."
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Post by celticjobber on Sept 10, 2013 19:00:23 GMT -5
It's funny to me because a lot of people in this thread defending AJ are people who a few months ago were laughing at Bret in the Wrest Of Wrestling section and calling him a mark simply because he had a room in his house with a replica belt and a photo of him winning the belt in it. This is indeed a simple case of AJ being protected species on this board. I'm one of the biggest Bret Hart fans/defenders on the planet. But I'm also a huge AJ fan, and I appreciate her love for pro wrestling. And the point Dave Meltzer was making was that it's one thing to be a mark for something important like the WWE title, and another to mark for a "lower-level" title like the Divas belt (or the US/IC titles).
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 10, 2013 19:05:30 GMT -5
No. I could see it. Imagine, running a business, or just working for a company and one of your coworkers/employees just tend to love it a bit too much. Living in Southern California, I have one or two friends who are pretty much psychotic about Disneyland. One of them used to work there (until he got fired for reasons he will not pubilicly admit). He left bitterly, yet still goes on and on about the virtues of Disnely and continually goes there every couple of days. I can imagine working with this guy, and their coworkers and bosses go "dude, calm down. You're here every day. After all the nonsense you've seen, this place shouldn't still be so magical. How old are you?". That analogy doesn't work here. Your friend didn't work their whole life sacrificing their body and time just for an opportunity to be in the company. It's not like AJ just sent her resume into the WWE and got in and was handed the title. She is "marking" out so much for her title win because of all the hard work she put into it and her dreams finally got realized. Oh, I was just pointing out how I can see why WWE, and many other "real companies", would hold contempt for employees who are passionate about their product.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Sept 10, 2013 19:06:10 GMT -5
As for what I think in regards to the tattoo I agree with Meltzer. She should not take a fake title win so seriously. I guess it'd be the equivalent of someone receiving a small supporting role in the next Batman movie and then getting a Batman tattoo on them or maybe the bat mobile or another random prop from the film on it. Would that be weird? Yes. It's mark behaviour and someone in AJ's early days in the business probably should of got that out of her very quickly. I just feel bad for her 3-4 years down the track when she stops marking out for the fact she's a WWE Superstar and see's it just as a job but still has the dumb tattoo 1. That Batman analogy doesn't work. A small supporting role in a Batman film is not "making it." AJ winning the Divas Title is symbolic. It's confirmation that her dream really has come true. It's a life-altering moment for her. Besides, plenty of people that have never worked on a Batman movie have Batman tattoos. Why? Because they love Batman. 2. It's not a dumb tattoo to her. It's not dumb period. It doesn't stand out. She can't see it. It doesn't draw attention. It's not a horrible design. It's meaningful to her. A tattoo like that isn't something you wind up regretting later. It's not even close to that outlandish. I'm really struggling to figure out why being a fan of the entertainment industry you're in is a bad thing.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Sept 10, 2013 19:08:13 GMT -5
I just don't see how it's a "lifelong dream" when the belt has been around for only 7 years. And is she going to get a tattoo for every time she wins the belt? What if they go the Jacqueline route by having her win a male's title that no one gives a shit about?
I mean it's her body and everything and I guess if that date is special to her, whatever. But is it so hard to use the Arabic numeral system? The tallys look incredibly tacky.
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Post by Clueless Steve on Sept 10, 2013 19:10:05 GMT -5
I just don't see how it's a "lifelong dream" when the belt has been around for only 7 years. It's the only title for a female to win. Winning the top female title was the lifelong dream, not specifically the Divas Championship.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Sept 10, 2013 19:10:18 GMT -5
It's tough, because I see Dave's point, but he comes from a completely different perspective. He's been around wrestling for a long time, so he's more engrained in the business side of it then the wrestling side. But AJ is about my age, and I can kinda relate. Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder are about my age too, and from Hawkins having a huge wrestling toy collection, to Zack Ryder dressing up as Shawn Michaels in the crowd at SummerSlam 2002, we have this huge fandom and it's hard to get away from it.
AJ was the same person who bawled and wrote a letter to Lita upon meeting her at an autograph signing.
So I'm actually going to be a fence sitter on this one, in that I get Dave's logic, but he comes from a different mindset. A couple of funny mark out moments for wrestlers though.
Road Dogg marked out when he won the WWE Tag Team Titles for the first time from the LOD, though I think he was doing it more as a joke. He would put the belt in the window of his car, carry it with him through security, telling fans they can look but can't touch. In a less joking manner though, Big Vito got upset after he was told he was going to lose the WCW Hardcore Title. He was eating with Chavo Guerrero, and Chavo was told he had to lose his belt and Vito said, "well, I guess this is the last supper", referring to the last time he would be eating with his title.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Sept 10, 2013 19:10:30 GMT -5
As for what I think in regards to the tattoo I agree with Meltzer. She should not take a fake title win so seriously. I guess it'd be the equivalent of someone receiving a small supporting role in the next Batman movie and then getting a Batman tattoo on them or maybe the bat mobile or another random prop from the film on it. Would that be weird? Yes. It's mark behaviour and someone in AJ's early days in the business probably should of got that out of her very quickly. If that person worked hard and life's dream was to be on a batman film they have every right to "mark" over that. Just cause you don't see it as a big deal doesn't mean it isn't a big deal for her.
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Post by 2 Cold Scorkum on Sept 10, 2013 19:13:17 GMT -5
It's just a really dumb tattoo. People get dumb tattoos all the time.
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odor31
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Post by odor31 on Sept 10, 2013 19:13:38 GMT -5
Sounds like Meltzer wants a run as Divas Champion.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Sept 10, 2013 19:16:21 GMT -5
Sounds like Meltzer wants a run as Divas Champion. Dave Meltzer is the new Oklahoma or the new Hervina
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Sept 10, 2013 19:20:04 GMT -5
As for what I think in regards to the tattoo I agree with Meltzer. She should not take a fake title win so seriously. I guess it'd be the equivalent of someone receiving a small supporting role in the next Batman movie and then getting a Batman tattoo on them or maybe the bat mobile or another random prop from the film on it. Would that be weird? Yes. It's mark behaviour and someone in AJ's early days in the business probably should of got that out of her very quickly. I just feel bad for her 3-4 years down the track when she stops marking out for the fact she's a WWE Superstar and see's it just as a job but still has the dumb tattoo 1. That Batman analogy doesn't work. A small supporting role in a Batman film is not "making it." AJ winning the Divas Title is symbolic. It's confirmation that her dream really has come true. It's a life-altering moment for her. Besides, plenty of people that have never worked on a Batman movie have Batman tattoos. Why? Because they love Batman. 2. It's not a dumb tattoo to her. It's not dumb period. It doesn't stand out. She can't see it. It doesn't draw attention. It's not a horrible design. It's meaningful to her. A tattoo like that isn't something you wind up regretting later. It's not even close to that outlandish. I'm really struggling to figure out why being a fan of the entertainment industry you're in is a bad thing. 1. What if their goal was always to be in Batman? What if as a kid they loved Batman and became an actor just to be in Batman and they felt that having 10 lines in a Batman movie is their life success? And yes, people do get tattoo's of Batman, Anime etc and I never understood it. A tattoo is usually there for life how are the people with Batman tattoo's going to explain that to their children someday? 2. It's there for life though. What if the WWE does the wrong thing by her and she hates the company? What if she stops being a fan of the company and becomes a business woman (Which she should be doing) and recognizes the belt simply means job security and that's it? Then the tattoo is dumb to her also.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 19:21:24 GMT -5
I don't really see her as a belt mark. It was just a concrete date that she "made it", and she commemorated it.
I'm sick of the ironic sense of detachment that permeates everything, not just wrestling. There's a cynicism ingrained in that, under the guise of "getting it".
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 10, 2013 19:22:40 GMT -5
1. That Batman analogy doesn't work. A small supporting role in a Batman film is not "making it." AJ winning the Divas Title is symbolic. It's confirmation that her dream really has come true. It's a life-altering moment for her. Besides, plenty of people that have never worked on a Batman movie have Batman tattoos. Why? Because they love Batman. 2. It's not a dumb tattoo to her. It's not dumb period. It doesn't stand out. She can't see it. It doesn't draw attention. It's not a horrible design. It's meaningful to her. A tattoo like that isn't something you wind up regretting later. It's not even close to that outlandish. I'm really struggling to figure out why being a fan of the entertainment industry you're in is a bad thing. 1. What if their goal was always to be in Batman? What if as a kid they loved Batman and became an actor just to be in Batman and they felt that having 10 lines in a Batman movie is their life success? And yes, people do get tattoo's of Batman, Anime etc and I never understood it. A tattoo is usually there for life how are the people with Batman tattoo's going to explain that to their children someday? 2. It's there for life though. What if the WWE does the wrong thing by her and she hates the company? What if she stops being a fan of the company and becomes a business woman (Which she should be doing) and recognizes the belt simply means job security and that's it? Then the tattoo is dumb to her also. Tiny lines on the back of her neck. Here is what she'll say to her kids: "I was a wrestler. Being my children, you know this, as you are my kid and are aware of who I am."
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Post by Clueless Steve on Sept 10, 2013 19:23:21 GMT -5
1. That Batman analogy doesn't work. A small supporting role in a Batman film is not "making it." AJ winning the Divas Title is symbolic. It's confirmation that her dream really has come true. It's a life-altering moment for her. Besides, plenty of people that have never worked on a Batman movie have Batman tattoos. Why? Because they love Batman. 2. It's not a dumb tattoo to her. It's not dumb period. It doesn't stand out. She can't see it. It doesn't draw attention. It's not a horrible design. It's meaningful to her. A tattoo like that isn't something you wind up regretting later. It's not even close to that outlandish. I'm really struggling to figure out why being a fan of the entertainment industry you're in is a bad thing. 1. What if their goal was always to be in Batman? What if as a kid they loved Batman and became an actor just to be in Batman and they felt that having 10 lines in a Batman movie is their life success? And yes, people do get tattoo's of Batman, Anime etc and I never understood it. A tattoo is usually there for life how are the people with Batman tattoo's going to explain that to their children someday? 2. It's there for life though. What if the WWE does the wrong thing by her and she hates the company? What if she stops being a fan of the company and becomes a business woman (Which she should be doing) and recognizes the belt simply means job security and that's it? Then the tattoo is dumb to her also. 1. By showing their kids why they love Batman? By introducing them to Batman themselves and bonding over the mutual interest? 2. That scenario is highly unlikely. Anyway, getting on bad terms with the WWE doesn't mean that AJ still won't love wrestling. She won the biggest prize a female wrestler can win. Good terms or not, that will never stop being special.
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