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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 21:40:48 GMT -5
On that same level, I remember someone (forgot who it was) mentioning that Bret Hart was selfish for taking less money from the WWF (i.e. being a "belt mark") because it had a trickle down effect on the rest of the roster. Hogan was someone who demanded a lot of money, but in doing so, it made other people more money as well. If your top star (and AJ might be their top star as far as women go) is more concerned with fake belts than he/she is about money or the business aspect of things, then it will definitely hurt the rest of the roster. This is probably over-analyzing things, as the WWE likely sees everyone (save for maybe Cena) as replaceable parts, so if AJ left it really wouldn't make a lick of difference to them, but being a "belt mark" certainly has a downside from where Meltzer is likely viewing it from, and I can definitely see why wrestlers would look down on that. Going back to the tattoo standpoint, the fact that she is being mocked for it is overblown. It's a tattoo! It's not like she is being mocked for her race or gender or things she has no control over. She voluntarily tattooed the date of when she won a fake title on her neck. That's going to get some comments from people who view wrestling as a business. If I got a tattoo of the date I got promoted at my job, I'd never hear the end of it, and that is something tangible and meaningful. What happened to AJ was the equivalent of my boss telling me "we are going to make you fake VP today" and then me having run to my nearest tattoo parlor to have the date engraved on my body. Ultimately, this is a big deal over nothing. Not sure if you meant somebody on the board or somebody within the industry, because I know Nash & Hall and Hogan have all said in more recent times something similar about Hart. How his willingness to take less pay just to have the belt hurt the bottom dollar of all those under him when he was champion. Because it allowed the office to point to him and say "What, you expect to make more than the WWF Champion?" and essentially use him as a pawn. Yeah I meant someone from the industry, I just forgot who said it. Nash, Hall, and/or Hogan make sense. I'm guessing most wrestlers from that era felt the same way.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Sept 10, 2013 21:41:46 GMT -5
A lot of wrestlers go through knee-deep shit to realize their dreams. I mean no disrespect to AJ but I just don't get this defense. Were her hardships more valid than other wrestlers who get roundly criticized on here? That AJ Lee struggle, ya'll. Worse than the Harlem Struggle.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 10, 2013 21:52:08 GMT -5
This mockery of it is an old school carny mentality that needs to die. Back in the territory days, wrestling was made up primarily of second generation wrestlers, sons of promoters and broken down ex-football players. It was looked at almost entirely as a carnival business designed to make money off of the generally ignorant public. It was a side show peddling gimmicks and collecting cash. It was a JOB to most.
But today, generations removed, a great deal of wrestlers coming up were passionate fans. And with that, holding a title, any title, is the culmination of everything they dreamed about. When they were kids, they play wrestled, made cardboard belts, set up leagues with friends, attended PPVs, collected autographs. The business, as presented, MEANT something to them. They didn't get into it to make a living, but because they loved it first and foremost. So, AJ being proud of her title, despite the inherent lack of historical significance of this particular belt, shouldn't be mocked by those in the industry. Because the industry, as they knew it, is over and is never coming back.
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Post by Chestnutrice on Sept 10, 2013 21:54:58 GMT -5
I think Meltzer's point was that people who are seen as overly passionate about the business (to the point where they are emotional about things like title wins) are historically taken advantage of by promoters. He probably wanted to say that AJ should look over her shoulder for people who want to use this to bury or misuse her. Unfortunately, he came across as a total condescending jerk while saying it. He did though, he said it on WOR. That's why I don't understand why people think he's making a disparaging remark to her.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Sept 10, 2013 21:58:43 GMT -5
I don't agree, but JBL was mocking it pretty hard. It might be how old timers (re:idiots) feel
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 10, 2013 22:08:20 GMT -5
I think Meltzer's point was that people who are seen as overly passionate about the business (to the point where they are emotional about things like title wins) are historically taken advantage of by promoters. He probably wanted to say that AJ should look over her shoulder for people who want to use this to bury or misuse her. Unfortunately, he came across as a total condescending jerk while saying it. He did though, he said it on WOR. That's why I don't understand why people think he's making a disparaging remark to her. Yeah I didn't think he came across mean as he just kind of came across surprised that she would do it and then he and Alvarez kind of batted back and forth sort of what people in the business would read from it. They definitely poked some fun at the lineage of the Diva's/Women's title, and I think that's just wrong. Hervina held that belt. It has a proud legacy. I think because AJ is the divisive figure she is it's easy to lose sight of this being an unusual thing to do. That doesn't make it good or bad, but I can't remember any other wrestler's tattooing the dates of their title victories. But then there's stuff like Jim Hellwig legally changing his name to Warrior, that even if there's a business reason behind it is in a completely different universe of unusual. I think it's pretty cool myself, and I'm certainly no fan of AJ Lee.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Sept 10, 2013 22:38:53 GMT -5
"belt mark" This is one of those things that makes really appreciate wrestling. Y'know - its like - only in wrestling. No one would ever say this about something like the Academy Awards or what have you. It makes me think of when Dolph Ziggler won the WHC. The fans popped in a big way. I cheered watching at home. When Ziggler, Langston, and AJ hugged in the middle of the ring, that felt real. And because it felt real (regardless if it was or wasn't), my response was that much more passionate and involved. Am I a mark for the belt mark in this instance? Because I like Ziggler and think that he works hard and deserves better and never really got a shot at being on top until that moment? If it's stupid for wrestlers to buy into the moment and express genuine emotion, even if wrestling is a pre-determined athletic demonstration that revolves around dramatic performances in a serialized, narrative format, then it's stupid for me as a fan to get emotionally invested when it's a bunch of fakery built upon pretense built upon illusion built upon a gimmicky lie. And if it's stupid for me to be emotionally invested, then it's surely stupid for me to put forward my hard-earned money to buy a ticket to a live show, order a pay-per-view, and purchase merchandise, right? It's this up-is-down mindset with the old school people still involved with wrestling and protecting the business and all that other carnival circuit tosh that makes me wonder how people were able to make a living at all off wrestling when said people in the industry shit on the fans every chance they get. And if you're a fan IN the business, you're shit on twice over.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 22:49:29 GMT -5
AJ getting a tattoo of some tally marks on her neck has the potential to affect the WWE payscale.
Boy, are non-wrestlng fans missing out. Wrestling is f***ing crazy!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 22:54:13 GMT -5
AJ getting a tattoo of some tally marks on her neck has the potential to affect the WWE payscale. Boy, are non-wrestlng fans missing out. Wrestling is f***ing crazy! No one said it would effect the company payscale. It was brought up that being a mark in the business has negative effects. The tattoo aspect of it was never brought up in that same light.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 10, 2013 22:54:57 GMT -5
Am I a mark for the belt mark in this instance? Because I like Ziggler and think that he works hard and deserves better and never really got a shot at being on top until that moment? To the guys that think this way, which is unfortunately still probably a majority of workers/employees, guys like Al Snow, anyone who watches wrestling and especially anyone who pays to watch wrestling is a mark. But I think a 'belt mark' is specifically referring wrestlers who attribute importance to titles and an emotional attachment to being champion. So I don't think you can be a belt mark if you're not a wrestler, at least in the context of the phrase. AJ Lee is in some pretty bad company when it comes to people being labeled belt marks. CM Punk, HHH, Bret Hart. What an embarrassment.
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Post by cool guy on Sept 10, 2013 22:58:56 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer can go f*** himself. Don't mock people for being proud of their accomplishments.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 23:14:12 GMT -5
I'll never understand why people overreact to inoffensive tattoos on inoffensive places.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 23:20:30 GMT -5
AJ getting a tattoo of some tally marks on her neck has the potential to affect the WWE payscale. Boy, are non-wrestlng fans missing out. Wrestling is f***ing crazy! No one said it would effect the company payscale. It was brought up that being a mark in the business has negative effects. The tattoo aspect of it was never brought up in that same light. The tattoo is what led to the discussion of her being a mark in the business, so the implication is there, intended or not. If she gets the tattoo, she's a belt mark, and if someone is a belt mark, it can effect everyone's pay because they're inflating the importance of belts. As I understand it, that was the point that was being made. Anyway, I was over-simplifying for comedic effect and to point out how bat-shit crazy the wrestling business can be.
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Post by celticjobber on Sept 10, 2013 23:24:34 GMT -5
Maybe Meltzer is just mad because he has a crush on AJ and she sullied her perfect body by getting that tattoo.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Sept 10, 2013 23:27:37 GMT -5
Why is Meltzer being demonized here? He's saying what people backstage feel. He's not saying he agrees with it, he's just saying this might hurt AJ in the long run.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Sept 10, 2013 23:34:54 GMT -5
I don't think I could respect anyone who won a title and didn't respect or appreciate it. Every belt to me represents a level of trust and appreciation that a company has in a person to draw fans, no matter how small the number. Saying that people backstage shouldn't appreciate it because it's "fake" and doesn't count is like saying actors shouldn't take too much into their accolades because they're not really the people on the screen. Now, that may be naive, but that's how I see it.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 10, 2013 23:47:29 GMT -5
So far it has been claimed Meltzer has a tat commemorating the first time he gave a five star rating on his ass and now this tramp stamp tat to boot. Just how many stars involving 5 stars does Meltzer have on or around his ass? My guess is 5. Unless we count the tat celebrating Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid he has on his testicels (Tiger on right, Dynamite on left) as two seperate tats. Meltzer has this party trick where he drops his trousers and underwear to show his ass cheeks. Each cheek has two stars tattooed on it in a horizontal line. This is often met with "Wheres the 5th star Dave?" In reply to this Dave reaches back, grabs a hold of each cheek, spreads them and says "There's your 5th star". Now that sounds like a party I'd like to go to!
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Sept 11, 2013 0:10:13 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with what he said, doesn't sound like he's hating, just stating....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2013 0:10:48 GMT -5
I don't think trashing AJ over the tattoo is very fair.
Yeah the title isn't a big deal and almost every female hired gets it at some point, true.
However whether you like AJ or not, it's pretty clear she's been a massive wrestling fan since she was a kid and getting to join the WWE, be featured alot, and getting the women's belt is a huge deal to her.
It's about the most pure motive to get a tattoo there is, something meaningful in your life.
Even going by the "undercard belt" thing, does that mean she can't get excited about anything that she does? There's nothing bigger for her to work up to, the diva belt is it. It's not the intercontinental diva's title. There's just the one title.
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DIIV
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Post by DIIV on Sept 11, 2013 2:41:46 GMT -5
People are actually questioning AJ's own PERSONAL decision to get a tattoo on HER body?
Skimming through this thread I noticed someone said "how will she explain it to her children one day?", how is that anyone's business other than her own? I'm not even a fan of AJ, but it sounds like a select few in this thread are being pricks just for the sake of doing so, it's annoying. Shit, man.
If she wanted to get her win/loss for the year tattooed on her neck, it shouldn't matter to anyone other than herself.
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