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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 8, 2013 22:36:15 GMT -5
I think the problem is that y'all are more bored with the basic formulas of pro wrestling. No matter how you dress it up and what era it take place in, it still follow the same guidelines.
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Post by Larryhausen on Oct 8, 2013 22:42:42 GMT -5
I think the problem is that y'all are more bored with the basic formulas of pro wrestling. No matter how you dress it up and what era it take place in, it still follow the same guidelines. This. Even the craziest spotfest or 65 minute workrate clinic follows the same formula. Two heels wrestle, ones going to work face. Two faces, ones working heel. The only exception to that formula really is Lucha rules tag team. Even then they're still going by a formula. |
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Post by bootytea on Oct 9, 2013 10:09:21 GMT -5
Tag team matches are not exclusively formulaic though.
The singles match are so typical as well to the point that I am shocked the crowd gets fooled by near falls and a sports entertainer using their finisher for the first time and being reversed.
They really need to change things up a little because I can tell where things are going most of the time.
Hot tags have to be the most ridiculous thing Ive seen, but I must mention that I hate how moves are much more effective during elimination tag matches.
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Gummydavidson
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Post by Gummydavidson on Oct 9, 2013 12:33:01 GMT -5
WWE seem to rarely book 2 on 2 tag team matches as TV main events now so they clearly must of been a ratings killer.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 9, 2013 13:02:59 GMT -5
Tag team matches are not exclusively formulaic though. The singles match are so typical as well to the point that I am shocked the crowd gets fooled by near falls and a sports entertainer using their finisher for the first time and being reversed. They really need to change things up a little because I can tell where things are going most of the time. Hot tags have to be the most ridiculous thing Ive seen, but I must mention that I hate how moves are much more effective during elimination tag matches. Why even watch pro wrestling then? |
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Post by bootytea on Oct 9, 2013 14:37:06 GMT -5
Tag team matches are not exclusively formulaic though. The singles match are so typical as well to the point that I am shocked the crowd gets fooled by near falls and a sports entertainer using their finisher for the first time and being reversed. They really need to change things up a little because I can tell where things are going most of the time. Hot tags have to be the most ridiculous thing Ive seen, but I must mention that I hate how moves are much more effective during elimination tag matches. Why even watch pro wrestling then? To know that a show that I am investing my time, and in some cases money, is doing their best to entertain me as innovatively and with as much effort as it warrants. |
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Chip
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Post by Chip on Oct 9, 2013 14:41:54 GMT -5
Almost every match that isn't a main event dealy is formulaic or predictable though.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 9, 2013 15:39:55 GMT -5
Why even watch pro wrestling then? To know that a show that I am investing my time, and in some cases money, is doing their best to entertain me as innovatively and with as much effort as it warrants. No matter how many times you re-invent the wheel, it's still a wheel. What innovations you're looking for from wrestling? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2013 16:03:17 GMT -5
the WWE seems to be bringing tag team matches back and for that I'm grateful the Shield have had a ton of really good matches with a couple of different teams this year. I don't care if some find it formulaic the Shield finisher fests and near falls at the end of matches is awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2013 18:00:07 GMT -5
To know that a show that I am investing my time, and in some cases money, is doing their best to entertain me as innovatively and with as much effort as it warrants. No matter how many times you re-invent the wheel, it's still a wheel. What innovations you're looking for from wrestling? I don't think what you're going for here is entirely true. We've seen many matches that work within some established concepts that still find a way to be entertaining. Using the old reliable 5 star system, If you look back on matches that most of us would give **** or more too, those were the matches where momentum changed often enough that hope spots were blended in/masked, hot tags weren't the end all be all, etc. What people don't like is when matches stick to the formula to such a degree that you might as well not bother watching. As someone who has been watching wrestling for almost 30 years now, I'm capable of being emotionally vested in a match but it does require the performers to stray enough that I don't know what's coming next. It doesn't really require that someone be particularly technically skilled, or anything like that, but just that they're able to give me some surprises. Granted, it's very difficult to do that in a shorter match. I've found the better short matches with a foregone conclusion (which most shorter matches are) require skipping hope spots after a couple minutes and going into a balanced trading of offense. |
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Post by bootytea on Oct 9, 2013 19:49:54 GMT -5
To know that a show that I am investing my time, and in some cases money, is doing their best to entertain me as innovatively and with as much effort as it warrants. No matter how many times you re-invent the wheel, it's still a wheel. What innovations you're looking for from wrestling? We could go the way of the Adamle specials where they make slight changes to matches or they can book matches differently. Im not asking to reinvent the wheel, just make things less predicatable. Theres nothing wrong with having people dragged to other corners for their side of the corner, someone making a dash to their corner or rolling out of harms way for the tag. If they must do the hot tag, stop with the face getting the tag first then the heel before the newly tagged in heel runs in to eat some offence from the fresh face. It blows my mind that you are fine with the wrestling formula being the exact same. Its the main reason I cant watch WWE from start to finish. If people do not demand more, they are going to make millions without putting as much effort. Look at how Hulk Hogan's act looked like it would never end until they were forced to do something else. This is not an unstaged sport where great technique is acceptable to repeat, this is a form of staged entertainment that has been going on for decades and plans to go on for decades more. Surely the seasoned bookers can challenge themselves to try something else instead of playing it safe? |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 9, 2013 19:59:00 GMT -5
I hated them in the old Smackdown games cuz they were tedious as hell. Cpu's partner would be in there every time, while yours was always a moron.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 9, 2013 20:01:05 GMT -5
Depends on how they're booked. WWE is super guilty of being too formulaic with them, but other companies are a little better at mixing it up. Yeah, TNA sometimes has Gunner and Storm vs Hernandez and Chavo, or Chavo and Hernandez vs Storm and Gunner. You never know which way it's gonna go! |
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Post by rybackrulez on Oct 9, 2013 20:02:36 GMT -5
Need more tornado and 4 team tlc matches
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 9, 2013 20:04:09 GMT -5
I hated them in the old Smackdown games cuz they were tedious as hell. Cpu's partner would be in there every time, while yours was always a moron. Yeah, usually winning a tag match in those would require you to either get lucky or get a knockout, otherwise it was just a war of attrition, with them breaking up the pin. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 9, 2013 20:07:06 GMT -5
I hated them in the old Smackdown games cuz they were tedious as hell. Cpu's partner would be in there every time, while yours was always a moron. Yeah, usually winning a tag match in those would require you to either get lucky or get a knockout, otherwise it was just a war of attrition, with them breaking up the pin. I pretty much had to go for submissions. Those you could usually get with minimal interference |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 9, 2013 20:08:57 GMT -5
No matter how many times you re-invent the wheel, it's still a wheel. What innovations you're looking for from wrestling? We could go the way of the Adamle specials where they make slight changes to matches or they can book matches differently. Im not asking to reinvent the wheel, just make things less predicatable. Theres nothing wrong with having people dragged to other corners for their side of the corner, someone making a dash to their corner or rolling out of harms way for the tag. If they must do the hot tag, stop with the face getting the tag first then the heel before the newly tagged in heel runs in to eat some offence from the fresh face. It blows my mind that you are fine with the wrestling formula being the exact same. Its the main reason I cant watch WWE from start to finish. If people do not demand more, they are going to make millions without putting as much effort. Look at how Hulk Hogan's act looked like it would never end until they were forced to do something else. This is not an unstaged sport where great technique is acceptable to repeat, this is a form of staged entertainment that has been going on for decades and plans to go on for decades more. Surely the seasoned bookers can challenge themselves to try something else instead of playing it safe? First time I heard someone liking the Adamle specials. Weird. I have been watching wrestling longer than most of the posters here been alive. I seen all of the tricks, all the storylines, and all of the finishes. But I still watch with excitement. All wrestling moves are just variations of classic moves. Chavo Guerrero Sr used to do moonsaults before the Great Muta. Ricky Morton used to do hurricaranas before Scott Steiner. The latter put their own twist on the moves to make it stand out. I'm not advocating WWE half ass and not try to be exciting. But the next, great idea is really just a new twist on a old standard. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2013 20:16:50 GMT -5
Tag matches have to be really good to work for me. I wouldn't call myself a fan of tag matches in their own right, unless they're crazy over-the-top gimmick matches (which we could use a hell of a lot more of these days), but I can think of plenty I like a lot and it's entirely possible for a throwaway tag match to win me over if there's enough there to enjoy. So, really, it's just kind of a case I guess where it takes more to please me in a tag match than it does in a singles one.
Though anything over a six man tag I pretty much automatically hate.
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 9, 2013 20:19:01 GMT -5
Need more tornado and 4 team tlc matches Agreed on the former. I remember a Miz/Swagger vs. Riley/Mysterio match on Raw Roulette that was far more enjoyable than it had any right to be because it was an active Texas Tornado match. |
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Post by Larryhausen on Oct 9, 2013 21:01:55 GMT -5
No matter how many times you re-invent the wheel, it's still a wheel. What innovations you're looking for from wrestling? We could go the way of the Adamle specials where they make slight changes to matches or they can book matches differently. Im not asking to reinvent the wheel, just make things less predicatable. Theres nothing wrong with having people dragged to other corners for their side of the corner, someone making a dash to their corner or rolling out of harms way for the tag. If they must do the hot tag, stop with the face getting the tag first then the heel before the newly tagged in heel runs in to eat some offence from the fresh face. It blows my mind that you are fine with the wrestling formula being the exact same. Its the main reason I cant watch WWE from start to finish. If people do not demand more, they are going to make millions without putting as much effort. Look at how Hulk Hogan's act looked like it would never end until they were forced to do something else. This is not an unstaged sport where great technique is acceptable to repeat, this is a form of staged entertainment that has been going on for decades and plans to go on for decades more. Surely the seasoned bookers can challenge themselves to try something else instead of playing it safe? The thing is, wrestling, as it is an staged sport, is in reality a dramatic presentation. Every movie, show, or play you see, and every book you read is a variation on the same theme, depending on genre. It's put on the wrestlers and producers to tell an intriguing story within the time allotted. And when you only have 5-7 minutes, there's not a lot of ways to really deviate from the standard seven stage format of a match. Granted, there are guys like Kenny Omega and Paul London who want to deconstruct the idea of that seven stage format, but that's the main reason they left WWE, because the machine won't change what works. |
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