Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Oct 28, 2013 2:00:22 GMT -5
I'm getting real tired of this if you don't like it don't watch argument. People can complain as much as they want. Judging people for complaining is no better than judging the direction of the product. With that being said, I just skip the stuff I don't like. Just seems logical to me. I don't like baseball, so I don't watch it. I don't like reality shows, so I don't watch them. I hate the Simpsons, so I don't watch that......... If a show constantly pisses me off, why watch at all? That doesn't really apply though, the people complaining do like wrestling, they just don't like the wrestling they are being given. It's like being a big basketball fan and not liking the NBA, it doesn't leave much room for you to enjoy your fandom.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 28, 2013 2:03:32 GMT -5
Don't need a bunch of threads saying the same thing floating around, so anything pertaining to either the main event or thoughts on the show go here. I'll leave discussion on the undercard matches out of it.
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
✬ Believe In The Fight ✬
Posts: 24,018
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Oct 28, 2013 2:10:19 GMT -5
If I like basketball but don't like the NBA, I have options. NCAA, international leagues, high school......
If a show has more crap than good on it, why watch at all?
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Oct 28, 2013 2:36:32 GMT -5
If I like basketball but don't like the NBA, I have options. NCAA, international leagues, high school...... If a show has more crap than good on it, why watch at all? This is what happens when an Englishman tries to make a comparison using an American sport. Though my example was poor you got it right?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2013 2:41:06 GMT -5
WWE is like an alcoholic relative. Nobody forces you to take care of them, but at the end of the day, who else will? Nah, they're like an abusive boyfriend. You might leave them every now and then, but eventually you go back and things are good and you might have hopes they've finally changed their ways, but soon enough they're hurting you all over again. WWE didn't do this. I ran into a door.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 28, 2013 3:09:43 GMT -5
Unless HBK is going to come out of retirement to face DB, the heel turn was pointless.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 28, 2013 3:21:30 GMT -5
Bros over Hobos.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Oct 28, 2013 3:47:31 GMT -5
No one has a crystal ball. Cena vs. Orton at Wrestlemania hasn't been stated by the dirt sheets, why the cynical garbage with that being the endgame I have no idea. Anyone who said Bryan's momentum is gone and that people won't care when he wins the WWE Title will look foolish when the crowd YESes it up on RAW. I'm just tired of this being taken too seriously all the freaking time. I'm sick of the negativity. I'm sick of the yelling down and belittling of anyone who enjoys the slightest bit of the main angle or what have you going on in the WWE. I'm tired of people throwing stupid insults at WWE for not going with thier fantasy booking on YouTube and Twitter. I'm sick of the dark cloud that hangs over what I used to consider the most fun message board. I'm sick of my sleeping cycle going out of whack every five days. I'm sick of my brother hooting and hollering in the other room. I'm just sick and tired.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 5:18:13 GMT -5
No one has a crystal ball. Cena vs. Orton at Wrestlemania hasn't been stated by the dirt sheets, why the cynical garbage with that being the endgame I have no idea. Anyone who said Bryan's momentum is gone and that people won't care when he wins the WWE Title will look foolish when the crowd YESes it up on RAW. I'm just tired of this being taken too seriously all the freaking time. I'm sick of the negativity. I'm sick of the yelling down and belittling of anyone who enjoys the slightest bit of the main angle or what have you going on in the WWE. I'm tired of people throwing stupid insults at WWE for not going with thier fantasy booking on YouTube and Twitter. I'm sick of the dark cloud that hangs over what I used to consider the most fun message board. I'm sick of my sleeping cycle going out of whack every five days. I'm sick of my brother hooting and hollering in the other room. I'm just sick and tired. This your first day on the internet or something? This has been going on for years. Suck it up, brother.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Oct 28, 2013 5:30:09 GMT -5
I miss when CM Punk was the most evil man in the world making fun of dead people, guys having heart attacks, and your local sports team. That was great TV.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Oct 28, 2013 6:05:00 GMT -5
Just seems logical to me. I don't like baseball, so I don't watch it. I don't like reality shows, so I don't watch them. I hate the Simpsons, so I don't watch that......... If a show constantly pisses me off, why watch at all? That doesn't really apply though, the people complaining do like wrestling, they just don't like the wrestling they are being given. It's like being a big basketball fan and not liking the NBA, it doesn't leave much room for you to enjoy your fandom. college basketball is huge
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 28, 2013 6:34:04 GMT -5
I see it as I have 2 options.
A) Be very angry at the WWE and their bad booking but keeps watching to see where this goes
B) Keep watching, but don't really get to angry about anything and see where this goes.
I'm not saying this is for everybody, but my heart will much prefer me not being stressed out or angry about the WWE in general.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,176
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Post by Bo Rida on Oct 28, 2013 7:18:13 GMT -5
Even having Bryan hold it for a month would have worked. Or hold off on having him win. Orton cashes in at Summerslam when both Cena and Bryan are exhausted and planted on the mat. Triple H quick counts Orton and that's that. You can do your screwjob finishes to the PPVs...whatever, but what you would also do is have Bryan represent himself better. He doesn't need to just win matches and proclaim that he's better than Orton, because at the end of the day, Orton is still champion. Ricky Steamboat was a better worker than Hogan, but that doesn't mean shit when Hogan was the star. Bryan is too complacent with how he's been treated, and I guarantee any other guy wouldn't have put up with it...well maybe Cena, but that's because they removed his testicular fortitude from his character so long ago. I know it's cliche when some people say that wrestling fans can write a better story, but I'm convinced that 80% of people here could probably come up with something more effective than what we've gotten. Austin vs Vince was a game of one-upmanship, at the moment any moron could do what HHH is doing when he's meant to be the cerebral mastermind and Bryan isn't getting enough victories/hope, in some cases like the night after S.Slam he was downright stupid just walking into a trap without a plan. The "best for business" approach could have allowed for something far more subtle which would have gave the angle a slightly fresher twist. HHH should have acknowledged Vince's mistakes and refused to take direct action against Bryan as it harms his corporate credibility and the prestige of the WWE title. Vince could get away with things as he was a dictator with absolute control, now WWE is a public company even in kayfabe HHH has to answer to the board of directors and shareholders, how are those kayfabe meetings going? It's one of the problems with the whole reality era. As for the fantasy booking: After Bryan won the title at Summerslam have HHH state he's not happy with Bryan being champion but he can't deny he's a great wrestler that will be a fighting champion, as the people want to see him wrestle he'll do what's best for business and have him defend the title every single Raw and Smackdown and maybe the odd Superstars/Main Event/NXT too. As the month goes on the opponents and match types get tougher while Orton is kayfabe suspended for attacking The Miz (non-sanction fights aren't best for business), they can then sell how Bryan is worn down for the eventual title match while Orton is fresh.
Bryan then just about manages to win at the PPV via a small package, HHH can present the title and raise his arm but instead of attacking him just hold onto the arm so Bryan can't defend himself from a post-match RKO, Orton can then cash-in the briefcase.
You still have the authority screwing over Bryan but in a way that doesn't devalue their titles or PPVs and is therefore is actually best for business, Orton looks more of a corporate champion rather than an afterthought, HHH and Orton had cleverer plan by using MitB as an insurance policy rather than simply abusing power and Bryan doesn't look like a complete idiot as he's won match after match on TV and still managed a clean win at the PPV.OK maybe my little attempt at writing isn't that great or even better than what we got but it does actually attempt to put over the three main players and not just Cody, Steph and The Big Show, I'm sure WWE could have done something along the same lines where the three main players all come out of it looking stronger (as characters) rather than weaker. What we have got hasn't benefited any of them or the WWE title.
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moneyinthebank
AC Slater
The best in the world at what I do.
Posts: 143
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Post by moneyinthebank on Oct 28, 2013 7:44:10 GMT -5
Bryan is in no way getting the pop he was getting before/around Summerslam and shortly thereafter. Even last night I thought it was pretty underwhelming TBH. It would have made a lot more sense after the first screwjob at SS to have HHH come out the next night, declare Bryan "had his shot" and would now have to fight back to the top. He could have had MEANINGFUL matches (imagine running through each member of the Shield on PPV rather than RAW main events) leading back to an inevitable rematch with Orton or Rumble win, all while Orton could have been having title defenses (and victories) making it that much more special when Bryan finally knocked him off.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,737
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Oct 28, 2013 8:34:30 GMT -5
Still don't have a problem with it!!! Call me the most patient man in the universe (and to be fair I haven't actually watched a WWE show in months due to my schedule getting in the way, though I plan to watch RAW tonight) but nothing I've read about in spoilers and results bothers me in the slightest. As long as Bryan gets his big win by the end of Wrestlemania (yes, I'm giving them THAT long) I'm chill. They can do as much long term booking and tension as they want. Because I BELIEVE in tension, I BELIEVE in patience, and I kind of agree with the WWE not giving into whiny fans who have been conditioned to give up the virtue of patience. I'm on the WWE's side with this one, and I will continue to be until they prove me wrong. As much as there are little things about this angle I do not like, the way the Bryan vs Orton/Authority stuff has worked is not one of them at least since Bryan has stopped getting beaten down every goddamn show (though even that didn't quite bother me that much). Yaknow why? Because all of these screwjob finishes, all of this bullshit? It HAS to lead to Bryan winning eventually. Nothing as makes logical sense. He HAS to eventually overcome all this bullshit and win the title. Why else would they even be doing this? Is your faith in WWE so low that you literally believe they will go against the most basic storytelling logic that a ten year old could figure out? Good guy gets screwed over and over again and eventually overcomes it. Building tension until the big moment of victory. It literally I'm telling you LITERALLY has to happen that way[/b]. There's absolutely nothing else that makes sense. I'm staking a lot on my insistence on patience, I'm setting myself up for disappointment in a really big way. And maybe it would be better to be strategically cynical like you guys, but I'm optimistic to a fault and I don't plan to change that. And this time least of all, because like I said, nothing else makes sense. There's, in my mind, approximately zero percent chance that things won't eventually go the way we want to see them go. So unless Bryan eventually getting his win isn't the point to you (to which I say, why?) then I see no reason to whine other than pure impatience. To which I saw... honestly? Grow up? To be honest. I'm not even being mr "wait and see guise!!!". Like... if there was a single other logical way this could go, I'd believe that thing would happen. I was there for the Nexus getting botched I was there for the Summer of Punk getting ruined, but those angles weren't as simple and obvious and to the point as this one is. I wasn't as crushed because I was ready for those to maybe go bad, because there wasn't as much of the simple storytelling logic as there was here. Hell, and I think this is fairly important to point out because it makes the fan hypocrisy here so so obvious, the Nexus and Summer of Punk debacles would have been fixed partially by showing the same level of longterm storytelling and patience that the Bryan vs The Authority angle we're getting now. Imagine if The Nexus had been given more time to dominant and hadn't been shown as weak as quickly? Imagine if they had won the Summerslam elimination match? And then continued to win Pay Per Veiw matches as long as this storyline has been drawn out? EXACTLY. So please like think about that.Mark my words, Bryan gets his big win in a BIG way that puts him over more than ever by the closing moments at Wrestlemania. Tell me I told you so if he doesn't, I'll gladly take that hit and also probably walk away from WWE for a few years*. But get ready for me to be the obnoxious I told you so guy when I'm right. Because ohohohohoh will I be. *I would walk away because like I said, I see such simple storytelling logic here that I Can't possibly fathom how this ends any other way, so if WWE somehow f***s up even the most basic there's 0% way for this to happen any other way and somehow makes that 0% reality then I'm done. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know I'm someone who's always willing to listen to why I might be wrong and I encourage others to try and poke holes here but I just don't see how this can end any other way. Maybe thats not the point or not the problem people are having, I don't know.
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Post by angryfan on Oct 28, 2013 8:49:43 GMT -5
Just saw Micheals' reaction via twitter. He's going to the "Do you get mad at actors" card. He's right in the sense that any real anger toward a performer for playing their part is over the top, but to use his analogy, how satisfied would a customer be if they paid to watch a movie trilogy, and in the "big ending" was just "random hero who showed up 20 minutes before the ending was evil all along and killed the protagonist" then just roll credits?
For this to work, for this "actor" to play his part, he has to "make a sequel". Shawn can't just "welp, that was fun" and wander off, he HAS to get his just deserts for the heel turn. So does Trips. So does Orton.
You have three heels who, going strictly by movie script logic, MUST be vanquished, and the hero who they've screwed over HAS to be the one to do it.
None of that will happen. Micheals isn't set to be on SD or anything after tonight, so the "he'll get his" would be, at best, D-Bry running in and flattening him before Trips et all beat him down.
Trips won't get his because Triple H, that's why.
This leaves Orton. So we have a movie with a "new action star". The villains, one is a well known big name, a box office draw as a bad guy. One is his buddy, who surprises everyone by turning evil. One is a guy who's played a villain for years in movies, but has struggled somewhat as a solo act. So in this film he's almost a silent lackey.
The movie ends with the lackey getting taken out by the hero, but the traitor and the mastermind, the real villains, they win in the end.
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Oct 28, 2013 8:53:07 GMT -5
It was typical Paul Lev-I MEAN HHH interference in a white hot angle because, despite his "best for business" BS, in reality he is a VERY ego driven individual and need to have the spotlight on himself.
When Vince called the shots unchallenged, this sort of crap didn't go on. Yeah Vince would get involved sometimes, but it was always to be on the ass kicking end of the angle, Vince was like Colonel Klink: he NEVER WON, EVER. HHH however, doesn't share that same attitude...its always "King of Kings The Game blah blah blah".
I truly and honestly and will go to my grave believing that the ONLY reason HHH dumped Chyna for Stephanie was so he could marry into the family and eventually get into this very position.
His overinflated ego ruined a white hot angle that should have ended at the last PPV with DB's hand raised in victory but NO...just like before, HHH has to be involved. Now you have ZERO interest, a probable Big Show-HHH feud. Orton vs Cena part 1284628393 and DB back to the midcard.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 8:56:26 GMT -5
Now we know what HBK and HHH were arguing about before the match.
HBK: But Hunter, that finish is idiotic, it doesn't make any sense. HHH: Shawn, just do it, okay? I mean, we're friends right? I know what I'm doing. HBK: It's quite possibly the dumbest finish I've ever taken part in! Ugh, whatever - FINE. (HBK stomps off)
THat's why HHH was yelling at HBK during the match "Are doing this Shawn? Are we doing this finish or not? I really don't know anymore?"
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
✬ Believe In The Fight ✬
Posts: 24,018
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Oct 28, 2013 9:07:52 GMT -5
If I like basketball but don't like the NBA, I have options. NCAA, international leagues, high school...... If a show has more crap than good on it, why watch at all? This is what happens when an Englishman tries to make a comparison using an American sport. Though my example was poor you got it right? I see where you were going, but we're in a world where if you don't like a patricular product, it's become very easy to avoid. I watch NFL sporadically, and hate that they have the same 10 commercials and take forever to get from play to play. My DVR fixes that. To the person who mentions "Components they still like" - WWE does a good job of making their product a "Variety show" nowadays so that you can pick and choose what you want to watch. Again, though, if you hate it more than like it, why do you watch? If you're there to ridicule it, you must be getting SOMETHING positive out of it. Given the level of typical negativity I hear after most PPVs, Raws and Smackdowns I just don't understand why all those people complaining still watch- or read the negative reviews online and take it as gospel.....
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Oct 28, 2013 9:37:33 GMT -5
Here's what gets me....
At the end of the day, all the finishes, title changes, and what have you made sense.
~The Rhodes Brotherhood remain Champions after putting on a Good match that showcased everyone and shows they're willing to TRY to showcase the Tag division
~Big E losing via countout means (IMHO) that WWE wanted to see if the crowd would get behind Big E as a title holder. This was the typical "Test" match before the big win that WWE are so fond of doing these days.
~ Cena is back and Champion. Did anyone really doubt this outcome? Wish Sandow would have cashed in...but I can see why it didn't happen.
~ I hate Orton as champion. I DO however like Orton as the figurehead in this case. 1) With clearly defined Face/Heel groupings we have a pretty good Survivor Series 5v5 match brewing (HHH/SHIELD/Orton vs Bryan/Rhodeses/BigE/Big Show) 2)Last night's "Screwjob", such as it was....furthers the story. Unless Bryan is OUT of Title contention/relgated to "Third Man" status by Year's end/"Mania Season" I contend that this Angle is not yet a failure. I will admit its a giant clusterf*** and the means have not justified the ends (i.e Unclear/Shenanigan filled /Non-finishes for nearly 6 months worht of PPVs).
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