Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 32,414
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Post by Perd on Oct 29, 2013 11:46:24 GMT -5
This whole storyline has sucked. To me, the whole Bryan winning the Rumble and having his Mania moment, is more a threat than a promise. More Triple H promos with half of it going over the audience head. More Bryan walking willingly into an obvious beat down. Yay!
Even if he does triumph at Mania, I won't be able to forget I sat through six months of crap to get to it.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,162
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Post by Bo Rida on Oct 29, 2013 12:15:38 GMT -5
There were a lot of complaints when Punk was WWE champion but not main-eventing PPVs but this is even worse as it's a weaker champion with an uninspiring challenger. Imo Cena, Punk, Bryan and HHH are all ahead of them, arguably The Shield and Cody too and that's before you get to those that are currently inactive (due to injury or being a part-timer) or could easily step into the challenger or corporate champion role. If it wasn't for HHH then Orton vs Big Show would feel like a mid-card feud although to be fair Show is getting good reactions.
It's one thing to have a legend like 'Taker out of the WWE title picture or somebody like Punk getting involved in a highly personal feud but it doesn't work as well with somebody like Bryan who is hugely over but has never had a proper reign of his own. Cena having a world title further complicates things as that could easily become the top championship undermining the whole angle, it doesn't mean as much if Bryan is going for the secondary title. Instead of just one feud above the WWE title there could feasibly be several.
It wouldn't be so bad if they went the way many on here suggested and had HHH state that Bryan has to work his way up from the bottom of the pile again, then the Wyatt's would seem like a logical obstacle on the path rather than the demotion some people currently perceive it as, if they wanted Bryan to eventually get the title or beat HHH that would be a far better way to keep his momentum.
That said the tag-team with Punk should be good especially if they don't add an unsuitable team-mate, if could feel like a natural alliance for Bryan with a longer-term goal in mind which would again keep momentum. That team could lead to a match against HHH and Orton but could just as easily turn into an issue about which one of them deserves to go after the WWE title which would probably lead to yet another momentum sapping heel turn.
Whatever happens I agree with the comment earlier in the thread that questions why you'd emotionally invest the second time around? Especially after countless other big angles that were screwed up by poor writing/booking.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 29, 2013 13:10:04 GMT -5
You know what? YOU guys are the ones needing there to be a Next Stone Cold, not the WWE. What we're watching right now is a show not booked around one person, and you guys are frantically trying to figure out who the one person being booked around is. Even worse, you WANT the show to be booked around one person, because you think it's a demotion to Bryan if it's not him. Uh...no? What I want, what I always wanted is a storyline that isn't half-assed. This entire saga with Bryan from Summerslam to now has been half-assed. You may not think so, but it certainly has been. In terms of a "Stone Cold", well WWE could have had lightning in a bottle with Bryan. He gets amazing reactions, anyone who faces him gets booed. He moves merchandise. Sounds like a no brainer to put him on the front burner, afterall we still have 2 World titles and Cena is busy with the other one. So why should the most over guy in the company, at a time when he is more popular than he may ever will be, lose a top feud, then proceed on to a third string feud? And yes, it's third string, because the Wyatt family is not something that is ever going to be very over due to their lousy ring work. Oh, for pete's sake. "This storyline has been bad because I say so, and Bryan's feud with the Wyatts won't work because I, personally, have made up my mind that it won't." Titles don't matter. TV time is what matters. Bryan is going to have lots of TV time, and gets way more than The Big Show. Therefore, he is a more important part of the show. "Card placement" is such an old-fashioned idea, it's so weird that you people are getting so hung up on it, when the WWE clearly doesn't care right now (according to "card placement," John Cena is an undercarder). See, here's the thing. It's MARKISH to care so much about The Top Guy and The Top Title. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but I find it confusing. You're acting like you can't distinguish kayfabe from reality. You've got this circular way of looking at these things where Main Eventing means you're a Main Eventer which means you Main Event. Bryan's worth to the company is not defined by whether he's in title matches. I have no clue why anyone would think it is. Especially when this storyline-focused type of booking is the solution to the very problem you guys are complaining about, of people being suddenly made important and then forgotten! Bryan was made important and is still important, unless you go out of your way to define "important" so narrowly that almost no one could possibly be there.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Oct 29, 2013 13:25:00 GMT -5
Titles don't matter, that's why everyone sat on their hands when Bryan won the WWE title at Summerslam, right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 14:03:20 GMT -5
You could look at it another way. Maybe a feud with the Wyatts isn't Bryan and Punk stepping down. This is giving the Wyatts something to do. If Rowan, Harper and especially Bray can't pull their own weight in the ring with Bryan and Punk, then they're done.
Goodness knows, as good as The Shield are I never need to see them in the ring against Bryan as long as I live. Although I wonder why Punk always seems to be able to sidestep having to deal with those guys...
Personally, I do see this as a step down for Bryan, but I'm over being mad about it as there were only a few ways this could end and the most likely one was them holding over with Bryan as a replacement until Cena came back...and with Hunner unnecessarily continuing to snipe at DBD by calling him a goblin under a bridge who can't hang to get himself more heel heat to the benefit of nobody.
A satisfying ending for Bryan/Hunner would've been him to beat Hunner in a match and make him tap. I'm talking arm-in-a-sling afterwards. You know, comeuppance. Taking a knee to the face is good and all for a stopgap, but at this point that's comparable to Austin giving a Stunner to Vince; it was cool to see and a nice exclamation point, but it ain't Austin with the beer truck or Austin hitting Vince with a bedpan or Austin making Vince piss himself in fear.
That's always what I compare Hunner not getting his comeuppance to. Dude has got to be embarrassed publicly. Some shit he actually needs to live down to where he can pretend he's the coolest guy in the room all he wants, he still passed out and shat himself when Bryan put him in the Yes Lock...just as an example.
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Post by goodbyehorses on Oct 29, 2013 15:03:11 GMT -5
I don't understand people over the age of 10 who watch pro wrestling for the storylines.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 29, 2013 15:08:43 GMT -5
I don't understand people over the age of 10 who watch pro wrestling for the storylines. Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Oct 29, 2013 15:12:54 GMT -5
We let WWE groom us for so long into believing you're not a main eventer and world champion, you don't matter. Do people buy into Alberto Del Rio as a main eventer? They did for a short while before the rose came off of the bloom. Now he's just a non-important cog who is a multi-time world champion who won't go away from the main event picture . If you can't be over with the crowd without being perma-stuck in the main event picture and world champion, it was never meant to be be. CM Punk, Jericho, Edge, and others spent time out of the main event picture and still maintained their overness. Punk had a World title feud with Batista where he was treated as lesser than Big Dave. He lost against Chavo freaking Guerrero in a feud for the ECW title. He spent years going up and down the card losing sometimes in quick matches against guys like Cena. Yet he stayed over. If Bryan is truly over and not because he has a chant worthy catchphrase, he will stay over with the crowd no matter his place on the card. And no matter how much we wanted to believe it, Bryan was not going to become the face of WWE. Just like no one took the number one spot from Hogan during the Hulkamania era. Savage and Ultimate Warrior may had been WWF champion but they were never truly the Man. Even when Hogan was not in the picture, he still was treated as the man. Cena is the Man. Everyone else are his supporting players. Others may get a shot to play quarterback, but Vince McMahon is going to go back to his Tom Brady because of his track record. Wait. Hold on. Didn't Tom Brady only get his job because Drew Bledsoe SUFFERED AN INJURY....and then the Patriots opted to stick with him? Or, I'll spin it differently. If Vince McMahon has Tom Brady (John Cena), why the hell did he ever bother drafting Andrew Luck (Daniel Bryan) and giving him the reps at all?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 29, 2013 15:22:41 GMT -5
We let WWE groom us for so long into believing you're not a main eventer and world champion, you don't matter. Do people buy into Alberto Del Rio as a main eventer? They did for a short while before the rose came off of the bloom. Now he's just a non-important cog who is a multi-time world champion who won't go away from the main event picture . If you can't be over with the crowd without being perma-stuck in the main event picture and world champion, it was never meant to be be. CM Punk, Jericho, Edge, and others spent time out of the main event picture and still maintained their overness. Punk had a World title feud with Batista where he was treated as lesser than Big Dave. He lost against Chavo freaking Guerrero in a feud for the ECW title. He spent years going up and down the card losing sometimes in quick matches against guys like Cena. Yet he stayed over. If Bryan is truly over and not because he has a chant worthy catchphrase, he will stay over with the crowd no matter his place on the card. And no matter how much we wanted to believe it, Bryan was not going to become the face of WWE. Just like no one took the number one spot from Hogan during the Hulkamania era. Savage and Ultimate Warrior may had been WWF champion but they were never truly the Man. Even when Hogan was not in the picture, he still was treated as the man. Cena is the Man. Everyone else are his supporting players. Others may get a shot to play quarterback, but Vince McMahon is going to go back to his Tom Brady because of his track record. Wait. Hold on. Didn't Tom Brady only get his job because Drew Bledsoe SUFFERED AN INJURY....and then the Patriots opted to stick with him? Or, I'll spin it differently. If Vince McMahon has Tom Brady (John Cena), why the hell did he ever bother drafting Andrew Luck (Daniel Bryan) and giving him the reps at all? Batitsa is the Drew Bledsoe due to he was the star until Cena overtook his spot. Bryan is more like Ryan Mallet. Good enough to be the star QB but until Brady is gone for longer than a game or 2, will have to wait for that opportunity.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 29, 2013 15:29:08 GMT -5
Oh, for pete's sake. "This storyline has been bad because I say so, and Bryan's feud with the Wyatts won't work because I, personally, have made up my mind that it won't." Titles don't matter. TV time is what matters. Bryan is going to have lots of TV time, and gets way more than The Big Show. Therefore, he is a more important part of the show. "Card placement" is such an old-fashioned idea, it's so weird that you people are getting so hung up on it, when the WWE clearly doesn't care right now (according to "card placement," John Cena is an undercarder). See, here's the thing. It's MARKISH to care so much about The Top Guy and The Top Title. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but I find it confusing. You're acting like you can't distinguish kayfabe from reality. You've got this circular way of looking at these things where Main Eventing means you're a Main Eventer which means you Main Event. Bryan's worth to the company is not defined by whether he's in title matches. I have no clue why anyone would think it is. Especially when this storyline-focused type of booking is the solution to the very problem you guys are complaining about, of people being suddenly made important and then forgotten! Bryan was made important and is still important, unless you go out of your way to define "important" so narrowly that almost no one could possibly be there. First off, I said that the Wyatts wouldn't work because of their ringwork. You act like me dismissing their ring work is something I shouldn't do. I'm sorry, but Harper and Rowan are very green, and Wyatt himself isn't polished. Punk and Bryan aren't miracle workers despite being talented. You may have a decent storyline going in, but it'll come apart at the seams when the match starts. So yes, I'm making up my mind on something that I'm likely to be correct on. I guess I should be thankful the hottest guy in the company is getting a filler feud instead of being forgotten. Thank you SO much, WWE!! Please, let me show you my appreciation by not criticizing any of your decision making, because you're not forgetting about the guy I like!! YAY!! Yeah, titles don't matter. Let's get rid of the titles. I didn't bring up card placement at all, but what I did bring up is why they're shifting the focus off someone who should be pushed while he's on fire. Explain to me why WWE is taking the hottest guy out of the hottest angle? It's obvious he can't keep facing Orton, but I would think the easier way is to reverse the decisions we've gotten, with Bryan getting the title at some point. The titles DO matter, because they're supposed to matter. I can't believe you're arguing that they don't, because they exist for a reason, so to put some kind of prestige above the title such as money, TV time, facing a legend...that's all bullshit. All roads for top guys should lead to the WWE title. That SHOULD be the absolute. So it's markish to care about the top guy? Uh what? I would think that it's smart to care about the top guy, because that's how you build interest and get people watching your programming, certainly not cutting his legs out from underneath him. That's the reality of the situation. If you paint a guy as someone who isn't the biggest deal, people aren't going to treat him like he's the biggest deal. The story was that Bryan wasn't and that no matter what the fans want, WWE is going to do what they want to do. It's called striking while the iron's hot. Everyone expects things to happen at Wrestlemania. Why wait? They couldn't do it at the 2nd largest WWE PPV? It's called giving the fans what they want. Soon...interest will wane and business will continue in sluggish fashion as possible.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 29, 2013 15:37:03 GMT -5
I don't understand people over the age of 10 who watch pro wrestling for the storylines. Well you sure came to the right forum.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Oct 29, 2013 15:38:12 GMT -5
It does come off a little markish to talk about the business and social repercussions on a day to day basis for professional wrestling, only to throw bitch fits when your favorite guy doesn't win a title match. I'm not singling anybody out, either. It's just a trend I notice month in, month out. It's easier to say "I like D-Bry and I hope he wins" than it is to say "D-Bry is the guy we NEED in the top spot. WWE NEEDS new stars, Cena is OLD and STALE. That is why we NEED Daniel Bryan to win and keep the belt for a while. My rage has nothing at all to do with the fact that I want him main eventing and winning a lot."
Because then complaining about his losing just comes off more like whining.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 29, 2013 15:40:34 GMT -5
It does come off a little markish to talk about the business and social repercussions on a day to day basis for professional wrestling, only to throw bitch fits when your favorite guy doesn't win a title match. I'm not singling anybody out, either. It's just a trend I notice month in, month out. It's easier to say "I like D-Bry and I hope he wins" than it is to say "D-Bry is the guy we NEED in the top spot. WWE NEEDS new stars, Cena is OLD and STALE. That is why we NEED Daniel Bryan to win and keep the belt for a while. My rage has nothing at all to do with the fact that I want him main eventing and winning a lot." Because then complaining about his losing just comes off more like whining. I don't think Bryan needs to be THE guy, but certainly cashing in on his momentum would have been a benefit to WWE, at least I would think. The mentality I don't like is the people who say "well, you're lucky you're getting anything at all!".
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 29, 2013 15:47:44 GMT -5
I don't understand people over the age0 who watch pro wrestling for the storylines. Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all. Pretty much. It's a trapeze act or ballet without em, and even the latter has a narrative.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Oct 29, 2013 15:58:25 GMT -5
It does come off a little markish to talk about the business and social repercussions on a day to day basis for professional wrestling, only to throw bitch fits when your favorite guy doesn't win a title match. I'm not singling anybody out, either. It's just a trend I notice month in, month out. It's easier to say "I like D-Bry and I hope he wins" than it is to say "D-Bry is the guy we NEED in the top spot. WWE NEEDS new stars, Cena is OLD and STALE. That is why we NEED Daniel Bryan to win and keep the belt for a while. My rage has nothing at all to do with the fact that I want him main eventing and winning a lot." Because then complaining about his losing just comes off more like whining. I don't think Bryan needs to be THE guy, but certainly cashing in on his momentum would have been a benefit to WWE, at least I would think. The mentality I don't like is the people who say "well, you're lucky you're getting anything at all!". Oh, I hate that too. But admit it. There are people who go on and on about numbers this and numbers that. They'll make bold cases that the only way WWE can continue to be in business, apparently, after any given PPV is if their storyline preferences are acted out in just the way that they would prefer. They'd use ratings and would constantly comment on how much WWE sucks and how much they're ready to give up on them *unless* things don't go their way. Now, doesn't that come off as a little too entitled to you? Now, I have an observer subscription and I remember reading that Bryan was a possibility for the summer Cena feud. I also read that their WrestleMania 30 plans were just about set in stone by press time and they had their top of the card matches figured out and would play out the rest of 2013 and beginning of 2014 to meet those specifications. It could be possible that Bryan getting over the way he did caught the front office by surprise. Don't hate me for saying this, but I'm sure the plan was for Cena to beat Bryan all along and then shuffle him back to the mid-card post-SummerSlam. But part of me thinks that him being in PPV main events throughout the fall was never a part of the plan, but because he overachieved in the spot they gave him, then shuffling Bryan into the main event angle was orchestrated. That being said, they still are WWE and WWE still would much rather use up the valuable last two hours or WrestleMania to showcase three or so matches they feel would draw the most money. In their minds, that means Rock, Brock, Undertaker, Cena, Triple H (don't hate me!), Vince McMahon, Randy Orton and sometimes CM Punk. Sometimes. That leaves no room for Bryan. Right now is also when they begin to get into gear for WrestleMania season. And no, I can't even explain the Big Show push. I'm sure that by Rumble time, he'll just be another favorite in the match before moving on to something else on a week's whim. It's cool that he's over, but once the match hits the ring, you're still in a high profile match with Big Show. Bryan is at least in a program and not just paired with 3MB or Wade Barrett each week so he can score victories and remain in limbo. The Wyatts stink in ring. But with Punk and Bryan probably teaming, we're at least promised one segment per week with quality wrestling and some good mic-work. Plus, if Bryan was in the CURRENT main event scene, he'd be up against Orton or Hunner right now. And for all this board seems to hate everything being replicated, this is at least something different.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 29, 2013 16:02:58 GMT -5
Good point but honestly (despite their denials) I could see this setting up a DB/HBK match at Wrestlemania. Which would be a great match of course, but like I said, he won't be fighting for the belt. Fighting HBK at mania will be more of a push to the moon then getting a WWE title match. I hate to be the one to say it: But what you saw last night was HBK's blowoff. He's never going to wrestle again. They wrote his explanation in a way that made sense to him, and then he got put in the Yes-lock and tapped out. That's his comeuppance. It's over between them. He's gone back home to kill animals with crossbows. On a side note, between Shawn & Bryan, and then Bryan and the Wyatts, casual flippers must have wondered for a brief second why the stars of duck dynasty were trying to kill each other...
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,002
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 29, 2013 16:08:33 GMT -5
Fighting HBK at mania will be more of a push to the moon then getting a WWE title match. I hate to be the one to say it: But what you saw last night was HBK's blowoff. He's never going to wrestle again. They wrote his explanation in a way that made sense to him, and then he got put in the Yes-lock and tapped out. That's his comeuppance. It's over between them. He's gone back home to kill animals with crossbows. On a side note, between Shawn & Bryan, and then Bryan and the Wyatts, casual flippers must have wondered for a brief second why the stars of duck dynasty were trying to kill each other... Oh yea I agree with that. I don't expect HBK to wrestle again. I was just responding to the other poster seeming to think that a match with HBK at mania is worse spot on a card than a WWE title match. I just happen to disagree.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Oct 29, 2013 16:12:04 GMT -5
Wait. Hold on. Didn't Tom Brady only get his job because Drew Bledsoe SUFFERED AN INJURY....and then the Patriots opted to stick with him? Or, I'll spin it differently. If Vince McMahon has Tom Brady (John Cena), why the hell did he ever bother drafting Andrew Luck (Daniel Bryan) and giving him the reps at all? Batitsa is the Drew Bledsoe due to he was the star until Cena overtook his spot. Bryan is more like Ryan Mallet. Good enough to be the star QB but until Brady is gone for longer than a game or 2, will have to wait for that opportunity. WWE treated Daniel Bryan like he was Ryan Mallet, when in reality, it could've been more like what happened between Alex Smith (Cena) and Colin Kaepernick. Sorry, but I do believe in Bryan that much, and that's not gonna change.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,002
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 29, 2013 16:17:38 GMT -5
Fighting HBK at mania will be more of a push to the moon then getting a WWE title match. I think it's telling that a victory over a retired star of yesteryear means more than holding either world title. HBK is one of top performer in the history of our sport. Beating HBK with the crowd erupting after the match will be a much more memorable moment than Bryan winning the belt at Mania. It's basically like the Hulk hogan/Rock mania match which overshadow the wwe title match.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 16:23:15 GMT -5
Fighting HBK at mania will be more of a push to the moon then getting a WWE title match. I hate to be the one to say it: But what you saw last night was HBK's blowoff. He's never going to wrestle again. They wrote his explanation in a way that made sense to him, and then he got put in the Yes-lock and tapped out. That's his comeuppance. It's over between them. He's gone back home to kill animals with crossbows. On a side note, between Shawn & Bryan, and then Bryan and the Wyatts, casual flippers must have wondered for a brief second why the stars of duck dynasty were trying to kill each other... I would explain it as infighting in Vince's Hobo Army. My friends would continue to look at me like I'm nuts and never take my Must Watch suggestions seriously. It's a horrible cycle it is.
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