mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 29, 2013 16:24:02 GMT -5
He's gone back home to kill animals with crossbows. But don't worry kids! He'll be back to promote something, ref a match, have a lame D-X reunion or something else in a month or two. Like herpes, Shawn Michaels never really goes away for very long.
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Post by goodbyehorses on Oct 29, 2013 18:15:29 GMT -5
I don't understand people over the age of 10 who watch pro wrestling for the storylines. Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all. Whatever. I view pro wrestling the same way I view Venom Mob movies. You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. As long as the matches are entertaining, I couldn't give less of a shit about the story's outcome. Do people re-watch Savage vs Steamboat because they want to relive George Steele's crush on Miss Elizabeth?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 18:23:05 GMT -5
Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all. Whatever. I view pro wrestling the same way I view Venom Mob movies. You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. As long as the matches are entertaining, I couldn't give less of a shit about the story's outcome. Do people re-watch Savage vs Steamboat because they want to relive George Steele's crush on Miss Elizabeth? I mean, that's cool...but why would you go in a topic talking about how good or bad a story is to talk shit about people watching it for the story? Come on, man... Did that really need to be said by you in this particular topic?
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Oct 29, 2013 18:23:33 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan has been Samoa Joe'ed. He has been shafted out of the world title scene for way too long that when he finally does win, it won't mean as much.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 29, 2013 18:29:35 GMT -5
You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. Wait, you think wrestling matches aren't every bit as campy and homoerotic as the storylines?
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Post by goodbyehorses on Oct 29, 2013 19:06:24 GMT -5
You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. Wait, you think wrestling matches aren't every bit as campy and homoerotic as the storylines? It varies from match to match. Using the Venom Chart a teary eyed HBK hug fest would score a Masked Avengers or Kid with the Golden Arm while a wild eyed Terry Funk brawl would earn a solid Invincible Shaolin.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Oct 29, 2013 19:10:27 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan has been Samoa Joe'ed. He has been shafted out of the world title scene for way too long that when he finally does win, it won't mean as much. I'm looking forward to Nation of Violence Daniel Bryan.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 29, 2013 20:21:16 GMT -5
Oh, for pete's sake. "This storyline has been bad because I say so, and Bryan's feud with the Wyatts won't work because I, personally, have made up my mind that it won't." Titles don't matter. TV time is what matters. Bryan is going to have lots of TV time, and gets way more than The Big Show. Therefore, he is a more important part of the show. "Card placement" is such an old-fashioned idea, it's so weird that you people are getting so hung up on it, when the WWE clearly doesn't care right now (according to "card placement," John Cena is an undercarder). See, here's the thing. It's MARKISH to care so much about The Top Guy and The Top Title. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but I find it confusing. You're acting like you can't distinguish kayfabe from reality. You've got this circular way of looking at these things where Main Eventing means you're a Main Eventer which means you Main Event. Bryan's worth to the company is not defined by whether he's in title matches. I have no clue why anyone would think it is. Especially when this storyline-focused type of booking is the solution to the very problem you guys are complaining about, of people being suddenly made important and then forgotten! Bryan was made important and is still important, unless you go out of your way to define "important" so narrowly that almost no one could possibly be there. First off, I said that the Wyatts wouldn't work because of their ringwork. You act like me dismissing their ring work is something I shouldn't do. I'm sorry, but Harper and Rowan are very green, and Wyatt himself isn't polished. Punk and Bryan aren't miracle workers despite being talented. You may have a decent storyline going in, but it'll come apart at the seams when the match starts. So yes, I'm making up my mind on something that I'm likely to be correct on. I guess I should be thankful the hottest guy in the company is getting a filler feud instead of being forgotten. Thank you SO much, WWE!! Please, let me show you my appreciation by not criticizing any of your decision making, because you're not forgetting about the guy I like!! YAY!! Yeah, titles don't matter. Let's get rid of the titles. I didn't bring up card placement at all, but what I did bring up is why they're shifting the focus off someone who should be pushed while he's on fire. Explain to me why WWE is taking the hottest guy out of the hottest angle? It's obvious he can't keep facing Orton, but I would think the easier way is to reverse the decisions we've gotten, with Bryan getting the title at some point. The titles DO matter, because they're supposed to matter. I can't believe you're arguing that they don't, because they exist for a reason, so to put some kind of prestige above the title such as money, TV time, facing a legend...that's all bullshit. All roads for top guys should lead to the WWE title. That SHOULD be the absolute. So it's markish to care about the top guy? Uh what? I would think that it's smart to care about the top guy, because that's how you build interest and get people watching your programming, certainly not cutting his legs out from underneath him. That's the reality of the situation. If you paint a guy as someone who isn't the biggest deal, people aren't going to treat him like he's the biggest deal. The story was that Bryan wasn't and that no matter what the fans want, WWE is going to do what they want to do. It's called striking while the iron's hot. Everyone expects things to happen at Wrestlemania. Why wait? They couldn't do it at the 2nd largest WWE PPV? It's called giving the fans what they want. Soon...interest will wane and business will continue in sluggish fashion as possible. You're the only one calling it a filler feud. And your reasons are pretty poor. The only of the Wyatts that's anywhere close to bad is Rowan, and as you mentioned, his main problem is that he's green. Second, even if they DID suck, the feud would work fine, because the gimmick is awesome, because the mic time on both sides will be great, and because Punk and Bryan can carry them in the ring. And yeah, it's.... by definition markish to care about champion more than someone who's not the champion, isn't it? You're buying into a fake championship. You can say that "all roads should lead to the title" and maybe you think that's the way the WWE should be booked, but it's not, right now. You're taking an arbitrary, personal standard and then criticizing the WWE for not living up to it. If they feud Bryan with the Wyatts, then that IS striking while the iron is hot, because Bryan will be on TV all the time and people will watch him do this new interesting thing and have a good time. Isn't that the point of the show? It's like you think that Being The Top Guy is some kind of REAL championship that Bryan deserves to win, and it's symbolized by the kayfabe WWE championship. But why are you creating a competition where there isn't one? They're actors. It's like watching Orange Is The New Black and getting mad because Miss Claudette isn't the superintendent of the prison, even though the person playing her is so talented.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 29, 2013 21:42:04 GMT -5
You're the only one calling it a filler feud. And your reasons are pretty poor. The only of the Wyatts that's anywhere close to bad is Rowan, and as you mentioned, his main problem is that he's green. Second, even if they DID suck, the feud would work fine, because the gimmick is awesome, because the mic time on both sides will be great, and because Punk and Bryan can carry them in the ring. And yeah, it's.... by definition markish to care about champion more than someone who's not the champion, isn't it? You're buying into a fake championship. You can say that "all roads should lead to the title" and maybe you think that's the way the WWE should be booked, but it's not, right now. You're taking an arbitrary, personal standard and then criticizing the WWE for not living up to it. If they feud Bryan with the Wyatts, then that IS striking while the iron is hot, because Bryan will be on TV all the time and people will watch him do this new interesting thing and have a good time. Isn't that the point of the show? It's like you think that Being The Top Guy is some kind of REAL championship that Bryan deserves to win, and it's symbolized by the kayfabe WWE championship. But why are you creating a competition where there isn't one? They're actors. It's like watching Orange Is The New Black and getting mad because Miss Claudette isn't the superintendent of the prison, even though the person playing her is so talented. We're going in circles here because all you're saying is that as long as someone has something to do, then WWE is doing the right thing with them, and that's bullshit. WWE is taking the main focus off the hottest guy right now and putting it on the Big Show. All roads lead to the title because it's generally the focus of the show and I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Yes, it's a fake championship. I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is that they aren't using the most over guy to his fullest potential. After the deal with Summerslam, people WANT Bryan as the WWE champion. Or in your mind, they want him as the fake champion of the fake wrestling show where everything is scripted. But he's now dealing with a couple of green wrestlers...yes, they're green, and they aren't ready to have main event matches right now. Maybe you disagree, but then again...you also argued that Curtis Axel is some kind of amazing wrestler, when he's just average. But whatever...I guess the idiot masses will enjoy the Wyatt feud by default according to you. It's all about onscreen time!! If Bryan is doing something, we shouldn't be concerned!! Just you wait!! Also, your last statement makes no sense. Why am I creating a competition? Because it is a competition? I would think that Bryan got to Summerslam based on how strongly the fans supported him. These people that appear on TV actually DO compete for the fans' support...and if you're not good enough, you aren't going to get it. Comparing that to some TV show where the week to week fan support doesn't dictate where a show is going to go.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 30, 2013 5:57:56 GMT -5
Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all. Whatever. I view pro wrestling the same way I view Venom Mob movies. You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. As long as the matches are entertaining, I couldn't give less of a shit about the story's outcome. Do people re-watch Savage vs Steamboat because they want to relive George Steele's crush on Miss Elizabeth? No, because the Steamboat vs Savage match was built upon Savage almost killing Steamboat and Steamboat wanting revenge. Without a story and characters, the fights mean virtually nothing.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
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Post by Abdullah on Oct 30, 2013 6:25:18 GMT -5
It's like you think that Being The Top Guy is some kind of REAL championship that Bryan deserves to win, and it's symbolized by the kayfabe WWE championship. But why are you creating a competition where there isn't one? They're actors. It's like watching Orange Is The New Black and getting mad because Miss Claudette isn't the superintendent of the prison, even though the person playing her is so talented. ...That happens. People who watch "American Horror Story" want Lily Rabe to be revealed the supreme witch, because she's more talented than the younger stars. Fans of a product want to see talented performers involved in that product ascend. It's really, really not just an IWC thing.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 30, 2013 7:30:21 GMT -5
It's like you think that Being The Top Guy is some kind of REAL championship that Bryan deserves to win, and it's symbolized by the kayfabe WWE championship. But why are you creating a competition where there isn't one? They're actors. It's like watching Orange Is The New Black and getting mad because Miss Claudette isn't the superintendent of the prison, even though the person playing her is so talented. ...That happens. People who watch "American Horror Story" want Lily Rabe to be revealed the supreme witch, because she's more talented than the younger stars. Fans of a product want to see talented performers involved in that product ascend. It's really, really not just an IWC thing. Heck, most popular long running series have at least one character who were never intended to be a main player, but the audience just took them to because there was something about the character, or the actor portraying them played them so well the audience wanted more, Klinger in MASH, Castiel in Supernatural, Scorpius in Farscape, Captain Jack Sparrow, Han Solo in Star Wars... and so on. Were they written by the WWE creative team, they'd be immediately shunted back to bit part status or have their character made unlikeable regardless of audience reaction as people are supposed to get behind who they're told to.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 30, 2013 8:05:25 GMT -5
Wrestling without storylines and characters is nothing at all. Whatever. I view pro wrestling the same way I view Venom Mob movies. You don't watch them for the shit acting, campy stories, or overt homoeroticism. You put up with all that garbage because of the awesome choreographed fights sprinkled throughout. As long as the matches are entertaining, I couldn't give less of a shit about the story's outcome. Do people re-watch Savage vs Steamboat because they want to relive George Steele's crush on Miss Elizabeth? Okay, virtually no-one here agrees with you on that one, but good on you for standing by your opinion. So uh... how are you actually going to contribute to a forum when almost all threads are a discussion of storyline progression? Genuine question.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 30, 2013 9:06:23 GMT -5
...That happens. People who watch "American Horror Story" want Lily Rabe to be revealed the supreme witch, because she's more talented than the younger stars. Fans of a product want to see talented performers involved in that product ascend. It's really, really not just an IWC thing. Heck, most popular long running series have at least one character who were never intended to be a main player, but the audience just took them to because there was something about the character, or the actor portraying them played them so well the audience wanted more, Klinger in MASH, Castiel in Supernatural, Scorpius in Farscape, Captain Jack Sparrow, Han Solo in Star Wars... and so on. Were they written by the WWE creative team, they'd be immediately shunted back to bit part status or have their character made unlikeable regardless of audience reaction as people are supposed to get behind who they're told to. People want a certain character to be more important, sure. But that is EXACTLY what has happened with Bryan: He's become more important and he's gotten more screen time. The is no sign of that changing. The crazy thing is to insist that the character get some sort of in-story boost. It's like saying "Okay, yeah, Klinger's on the show more now and gets a lot of funny lines, but they haven't made him HEAD OF THE HOSPITAL, so they're clearly not listening to their fans!" You guys seem to think that "bit part status" is determined by anything other than how many lines you have. Bryan has lots of TV time every week. He's a main character. It happened. The other thing is, sometimes it just doesn't work to have a certain character play a certain role, even if fans want them to. There was a show that determined its plots pretty much entirely by what the writers read people saying on message boards. That show was called "Heroes," and it was terrible. Sometimes, even usually, you have to say screw the fans and just tell the story you're trying to tell, and hope that they'll trust you to tell it. Frankly, I'd be really mad if Big Show wasn't feuding with Orton by now, because nothing else really makes sense given the way the story has gone. You guys telling me you'd rather the WWE just abandon important plot elements that they've spent time building up? Isn't that the Vince way of doing things and we're all relieved it's on its way out?
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Post by Mrs. Potato Dick on Oct 30, 2013 9:19:44 GMT -5
I think Daniel Bryan is gonna cut his hair, shave and become a STAND UP COMEDIAN! New boom period, I tells ya...
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 30, 2013 10:09:52 GMT -5
Having the beard and the goat references certainly didn't help him project an image as a main event A+ top line star
All it did was give credibility to HHH's assertations that Daniel Bryan couldn't be the face of the company
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 30, 2013 10:44:06 GMT -5
People want a certain character to be more important, sure. But that is EXACTLY what has happened with Bryan: He's become more important and he's gotten more screen time. The is no sign of that changing. The crazy thing is to insist that the character get some sort of in-story boost. It's like saying "Okay, yeah, Klinger's on the show more now and gets a lot of funny lines, but they haven't made him HEAD OF THE HOSPITAL, so they're clearly not listening to their fans!" You guys seem to think that "bit part status" is determined by anything other than how many lines you have. Bryan has lots of TV time every week. He's a main character. It happened. The other thing is, sometimes it just doesn't work to have a certain character play a certain role, even if fans want them to. There was a show that determined its plots pretty much entirely by what the writers read people saying on message boards. That show was called "Heroes," and it was terrible. Sometimes, even usually, you have to say screw the fans and just tell the story you're trying to tell, and hope that they'll trust you to tell it. Frankly, I'd be really mad if Big Show wasn't feuding with Orton by now, because nothing else really makes sense given the way the story has gone. You guys telling me you'd rather the WWE just abandon important plot elements that they've spent time building up? Isn't that the Vince way of doing things and we're all relieved it's on its way out? Again, you're still insisting that WWE is giving the fans what they want by keeping Bryan around with something to do. The same thing happened with a guy called Zack Ryder. While I was never a fan of his, it was painfully obvious that WWE was writing the character short of his goal simply because they had no goal for him. They gave him a big moment, a moment the fans wanted, and then immediately put him in a goofy feud with Kane...the guy who was the biggest heel in the company at the time. They continually whittled down the fans interest and he slowly disappeared. Now, I don't think Bryan is going to follow that exact template, but slowly but surely they're trying to refocus Bryan's heat to someone else they deem to be a bigger star. They've done it many times before. It's what WWE wants, not what the fans want. Fool me once.. So what you're saying is Bryan isn't fit to play the role? Well, I'd have to disagree with that, big time. Yeah, he isn't some major player on the mic, but he's certainly better than Bret Hart, Sycho Sid, Rob Van Dam and yes...Randy Orton. And YOU'D be mad if Big Show wasn't feuding with Orton? Wouldn't feuding with Triple H first make more sense? Where does Big Show have beef with Orton? The storyline never really dictated that. WWE isn't abandoning anything, because more times than not, they don't give us the best explanations for most things anyways, and drop shit all time. Why is it okay with some people and not others? You're acting like WWE doesn't have a choice in dictating where the story goes, which is funny since Vince has a tendency to change things on the fly depending on what he sees out of it. The difference between WWE and most other shows is you still have a live audience that IS going to tell you what is and isn't of interest to them. I think the stupidest thing any wrestling company could do is always make the decision for us, because that's how you get polarizing reactions.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2013 10:46:07 GMT -5
Even if Bryan only held the belt for under two days, they did show some consideration into him being a main-event talent and will go with a legitimate reign with him in the future, regardless of what Triple H presents on-screen for the sake of the story. The crowd reactions and merchandise sales only confirmed it.
Seeing as how this is actually to further the Wyatt family as legitimate threats, and CM Punk will be Bryan's partner, this is an elevation of the Wyatt clan. Plus, I'd be interested to seeing what they do with Big Show if they go to an angle where he just breaks stuff and threatens a lawsuit while doing so.
I'd be more concerned with the momentum of Ryback's booking, however. That was, what, the 9th PPV loss out of 10 tries for him this year.
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Post by angryfan on Oct 30, 2013 12:42:42 GMT -5
Not sure what it says, but I think what annoys me the most has nothing at all to do with D-Bry. Yes, I want to see him succeed because I find him entertaining, but it's this Groundhog's Day of a storyline and the Facgime's involvement that really just sours me.
Who are the heels?
Trips and Steph.
Steph can not, ever, get her comeuppance because there is no female character to give it to her. It's a "family show", corporate sponsors, so no way D-Bry slaps the Yes Lock on her or anything.
I'm fine with this, man on woman violence makes me nauseous, don't need it or want it.
However, that meanst hat Trips HAS to get his, has to, in order for the story arc to complete. The villain has to be conquered. Problem is, that won't happen either, because it didn't with Foley, it didn't with Booker T, it didn't with Orton. Sure it did with Cena (who didn't need it) and his buddy Dave, but if we look at the entirety of the last decade and realize that, far and above, Trips skates without ever getting even 1/5 of what Vince got as the top heel?
Hell, if he does "get his" at the end of this, the direction says it'll be Big Show that gets him, which would be fine had the storyline begun with Cena/Show.
It hasn't, and so now we've got heels who can't get taken out, and on the one chance that one of them can be, it will be by someone who turned on them, not by the original protagonist.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2013 14:32:04 GMT -5
It's dumb booking but believe me, Bryan isn't going anywhere.
He's been far too carefully protected for that.
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