Biggest Problems with the WWE

[Starshine]

Rematch, after rematch, after rematch. Usually with the same result each time.

There's too much talking! Shut up and wrestle!

Put midcard guys in properly written feuds with other midcard guys. The show doesn't HAVE to constantly center around the main eventers.

I mean really, they have 3 frickin hours, and still manage to blow any sort of proper time management. Do we really need a 20 minute show opening promo? Tell us stories that don't require the need for excessive explanation and "talky shit." It's pro wrestling, who the f*** watches the shows for the promos?

[Boo!]

The belts look annoyingly cheap now too. Especially the IC belt, like it's a cheap shiny plastic replica belts you could pick up for $30 a few years ago were.

Oh and someone needs to let someone know that a series of 'near falls' for 10 minutes doesn'tmake a great match. Although I realise I've now spoiled the next 14 WM main events.

[angryfan]

Nov 12, 2013 23:28:57 GMT -5 @akeem said:

Another thing that amazes me is that back in the day all of the top guys i.e. Hogan, Macho, Jake the Snake etc. would get about a 2 or 3 minute promo and get their point across and get everything over without having to do a rambling 10 minute promo that hardly says anything.

Jake Roberts, a midcarder for life who never held the top belt for WWF, could do more with a two-minute pre-tape with Mean Gene than most of the roster can do with 20 minutes on live TV. When kept short, promos get to a point and deliver on it. Cena's two-minute promos are gold, and I'm not even a fan, but they WORK. They make you care. Any more than that and it's rambling and jokes and "aw shucks" faces.

That doesn't sell a match, it's just filler.

Rock could have a two minute bit (or less) with Coach or Cole and it would draw people in. Even if he just spouted catchphrases for 45 seconds then said he was going to kick someone's ass, it still accomplished a goal.

I'm not saying "never do long promos". If made a rarity, they achieve something special and burn into people's memories. If it's the same promo, 10 minutes plus, every single week, then none of it is memorable anymore.

We don't need exposition and "this is why I'm cool or evil or smart or funny", we just need people to get to the damn point but put their own selves into getting there.

Randy Savage in a minute of talking could sell a PPV even if he was on the mid-card. Hogan could do a 2 minute pre-tape about anyone, literally, and by the end the person he talked about would seem viable. It was never long-winded.

Go back, take, I dunno, the Hogan pre-tapes from 1987, and put them together. 52 weeks, and you'll be lucky to have an hour of total airtime in a YEAR. That's like 3 "Corporate H" segments in the last month. You can do the same for Jake, for Savage, for anyone. Short, simple, and it had a purpose.

[Boo!]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfG7fYl_H_o

Start to finish about 105 seconds.

105 seconds today the guy will just about be standing in the ring with a microphone waiting for his music to stop.

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

I am interested by all these people saying "the biggest problem is they won't make new stars!" because I think the problem is the whole mindset that "stars" exist and can be "made." Instead of everyone working together to put on the best show possible, there's this weird idea that all the cast members are actually competing with one another over positions on the card, which is ludicrously counterproductive.

Even worse, it perpetuates itself. Why give midcarders interesting stories and feuds of their own when you see them as losers who couldn't win some fake competition to become big stars? And fans get into that mindset, too, even the Smart and Smark fans.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

I'm an optimist, but even I can see that there are things that should be better... Thing is, I wouldn't know where to start thinking of solutions, and I'm finding that fixing one problem just seems to make another problem bigger.

For example, cutting the promo dead space... say that saves you about 20-30 minutes per show. What does the time go to? Presumably more of those "meaningless" matches, right? So you give those matches meaning, but you've still got the problem of burning through potential PPV matchups and storyline concepts in the process. Logically, that leads to bringing back local jobbers, but those matches are just as meaningless and half as compelling, and so on and so forth.

It'd just be so damn overwhelming, you know? I'm surprised that these writers aren't permanently in a fetal position with all the stress of having to write 7 hours of TV a week and trying to create compelling stories for 60+ characters at once, with the ever-looming spectre of Vince McMahon ready to change any of that at the drop of a hat with his obsessive compulsive micro management, his alleged Mr. Burns-like lack of awareness of modern times and indecisiveness of what kind of wrestler to push this week. No wonder they don't seem to try with most of the roster... I wouldn't wish a WWE Creative job on my worst enemies.

[Boo!]

Nov 13, 2013 0:44:08 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

I am interested by all these people saying "the biggest problem is they won't make new stars!" because I think the problem is the whole mindset that "stars" exist and can be "made." Instead of everyone working together to put on the best show possible, there's this weird idea that all the cast members are actually competing with one another over positions on the card, which is ludicrously counterproductive.

Even worse, it perpetuates itself. Why give midcarders interesting stories and feuds of their own when you see them as losers who couldn't win some fake competition to become big stars? And fans get into that mindset, too, even the Smart and Smark fans.

Wrestling is all about guys competing for each others spot. It always has been. That's what's driven its success over the years. How much interest do you think there'd be in the industry if the mindset of "lets all play along nicely and share the spotlight" had prevailed? Many, if not all, of the most engaging and popular character responsible for the expansion of the industry would never have existed.

It's never been a democracy. It's dog eat dog. It's less so now than ever hence why the product is so.......flacid

[MichaelMartini]

-their style is too rigidly formulaic. Main event heels have to be a certain way, heavy reliance on corporate buzz words, overly staged production, etc
-they play it way too safe. Because apparently the sponsors are idiots and don't understand these people are playing characters. For heels to get booed, they need to do or say offensive things, but they can't risk offending the sponsors. Seems the only option for a heel to get heat is unfair beatdowns.
-How ridiculously overpowered they've made HHH and Cena
-tv writer promos. Most of the locker room always sound like they're struggling to remember their lines. And the lines are always dull or corny. They need to put promos back into the hands of the wrestlers and for the guys who can't talk but are great workers, use managers as mouths pieces.
-get ride of the announcing team. I thought JBL would make it better, and he did for a little while but Cole and King are so f***ing stale.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Nov 13, 2013 2:42:38 GMT -5 MichaelMartini said:

-get ride of the announcing team. I thought JBL would make it better, and he did for a little while but Cole and King are so f***ing stale.

They're the best we've got, so we're stuck with them.

[MichaelMartini]

Nov 13, 2013 2:43:40 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Nov 13, 2013 2:42:38 GMT -5 MichaelMartini said:

-get ride of the announcing team. I thought JBL would make it better, and he did for a little while but Cole and King are so f***ing stale.

They're the best we've got, so we're stuck with them.

Are they? I like literally everyone else better, Renee Young, Regal, Riley, the other guy, Stanford (is he still around?). What about guys they have on the payroll like Joey Styles or Dusty even? Cole and King have been garbage for years now.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Nov 13, 2013 2:46:23 GMT -5 MichaelMartini said:

Nov 13, 2013 2:43:40 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

They're the best we've got, so we're stuck with them.

Are they? I like literally everyone else better, Renee Young, Regal, Riley, the other guy, Stanford (is he still around?). What about guys they have on the payroll like Joey Styles or Dusty even? Cole and King have been garbage for years now.

"The other guy's" name is Tom Phillips. Yeah they're all good (except Riley , his awesomeness does not carry over to commentary, he's the drizzling shits), but are they ready to call the flagship show?

[Reflecto]

Too many recap videos- ESPECIALLY for things that happened earlier in the show.

Pretty much all of the big problems mentioned a lot here can go back to "There's just too many recap videos on the show". Not even counting differences between American commercial breaks/international commercial breaks, you can cut a good 20-30 minutes out of Raw just by cutting out the recap videos- giving you another 2-3 segments for matches or chances to get midcarders gimmicks/characters.

It gets worse when WWE does it for things that happened earlier in the show- at least for other episodic shows that do recaps- they put the recaps at the start of the show then get into the action. You don't see regular shows have a recap, then have something happen, then go right back to recapping what just happened a couple seconds later- which gives more overkill for top guys' angles (and burns them out faster), and treats the fans like they have the memories of goldfish- and if you treat fans like they're too dumb, for too long, they will find ways to MAKE the WWE realize they're smarter than they look.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

I'm not one of these guys that says 'WWE needs to stop being PG!' because the product was plenty edgy in the past while remaining PG or even PG-13. The issue is that WWE is toothless. Heels aren't allowed to fight dirty any more, even on the mic, and it means no one can get booed. And if no one gets booed, no one gets cheered to kick their asses and then no one gets any reactions at all.

[Bo Rida]

Nov 12, 2013 22:43:05 GMT -5 Heartbreaker said:

• Like mentioned WWE has a horrible habit of pushing someone who has a lot of potential then competely messing it up by an awful conclusion to an angle then having that person in midcard hell. Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, even Punk at times, Kofi Kingston.
• Pretty much the same as I said above but messing up massive angles that started off exciting and gave WWE attention for a good reason. The poster child of this is CM Punk in 2011 why in god's name did it end with TRIPLE H VS. KEVIN NASH OF ALL THINGS? Recently Daniel Bryan which is now about the damn Big Show and of course the Nexus angle. This is more awful because I am too scared to get excited about angles anymore.

Yep they're the big ones, it's got to the stage where there's little point in people emotionally investing in angles these days. It's something that's made worse by WWEs habit of booking terrible first title reigns for upcoming stars and the devaluation of the WHC, now that first title win is just one part of a story rather than the culmination of it.

Aside from that I agree with the unnecessarily lengthy promos, recaps and general poor time management, you could say that's due to three hour Raws being too long but the problem existed long before that and even effects WM. As I've said before CM Punk and Heyman are two of the all-time great wrestling orators but they've had so much mic time over the past year I'm sick of hearing them.
Maybe Renee Young being so good in the backstage interview role will see that type of promo be used more frequently saving the long in-ring ones for more important occasions.

[mrbananagrabber]

I've read a few comments on here about cutting down on promo's and having more wrestling. That suits US. The casual fan? Not so much.

I know a guy who "watches" wrestling and he says he only watches it FOR the drama and storylines, and he zips through the matches. I obviously don't speak to him much.

Check whenever there's a ratings result in though. The ratings dip heavily whenever there's an actual wrestling match. That can't be a coincidence.

[Chip]

My biggest problems with it are the booking and time managment. The only guys I can really point to and say they were booked well on the roster currently is The Shield, everyone else has been yo-yo'd too much to the point that people have stopped caring when someones on the upswing as they know they are gonna free fall once they hit their peak. For as long as the WWE has been around I don't understand why they still have over-run on RAW and why so many segments take such an unnecessary amount of time. A stupid promo video about Big Shows legal proceedings shouldn't take three minutes and it shouldn't be played multiple times per show. Deciding to play that stupid video twice instead of three times is enough time to not have a match have a jobber entrance. Actually that's probably the part that pisses me off a lot, they re-run videos so often and re-cap everything multiple times and yet they still can't find the time for some performers to have full entrances.

[Hit Girl]

Another major problem they have is their denialism over what they are. Their pathological reluctance to embrace their own core product, wrestling, in favour of some vague and nebulous idea that they are an "entertainment" company skews everything they do.

[Madagascar Fred]

Nov 12, 2013 22:17:32 GMT -5 MrBRulzOK said:

They can only rely on past names for so long. Eventually that well is going to run dry and they are going to have a hard time recovering.

one of the most important issues

January-April is Wrestlemania season, relying on all the big-name parttimers (in the past 2 years it was Taker, Rock, Brock, HHH) who will be gone soon after. then you are left with some guys who are presented as worthless (f.e. Kofi, Ziggler), so many fans don't give a crap about them anymore

how many years can Taker, Brock, HHH and Rock (let's add Batista, Goldberg, Jericho, RVD, Shawn, Edge & Sting for fun) still go on and "save" the WM buyrate and make WM look like the most important/biggest wrestling show ever?

it's more urgent than ever before to BUILD UP NEW STARS, who are CONSISTENTLY PUSHED, PROTECTED and get some WINS OVER BIG-NAME TALENT (Cena, HHH, Rock, Taker, Brock). why not put Reigns over Rock at WM? why not put Bryan over Shawn at WM? why won't you let Ziggler get a squeeky clean victory over HHH at WM? fans will get behind WINNERS, not bedind some oh-this-match-dont-matter-midcard-fodder

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

these days the biggest problem is that angles always just kind of peter out without a real resolution. I mean, look at Daniel Bryan not winning the world title. if the idea was to build to him winning, why is he off fighting the Wyatts while Orton feuds with freaking Big Show now? why'd the Summer of Punk 2.0 end with a match between Triple H and Kevin Nash? shit like that.

[Madagascar Fred]

Nov 13, 2013 0:44:08 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

I am interested by all these people saying "the biggest problem is they won't make new stars!" because I think the problem is the whole mindset that "stars" exist and can be "made." Instead of everyone working together to put on the best show possible, there's this weird idea that all the cast members are actually competing with one another over positions on the card, which is ludicrously counterproductive.

Even worse, it perpetuates itself. Why give midcarders interesting stories and feuds of their own when you see them as losers who couldn't win some fake competition to become big stars? And fans get into that mindset, too, even the Smart and Smark fans.

cause the potential stars (lets say Ziggler) are in the shadow of the REAL stars, the guys who are PRESENTED as real stars on the shows & everywhere else (basically Cena, Orton and the parttimers)