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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 13, 2013 10:01:24 GMT -5
They tend to botch their big story of the year, whether it be the Invasion, the Summer of Punk, the Nexus, the Walkout, Daniel Bryan etc...
All of it has a common theme. A promising uprising that could shake things up which eventually ends in subordination to the establishment and the reinforcement of the status quo.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 10:09:31 GMT -5
I've read a few comments on here about cutting down on promo's and having more wrestling. That suits US. The casual fan? Not so much. I know a guy who "watches" wrestling and he says he only watches it FOR the drama and storylines, and he zips through the matches. I obviously don't speak to him much. Check whenever there's a ratings result in though. The ratings dip heavily whenever there's an actual wrestling match. That can't be a coincidence.Emphasis mine. I'd say that's totally related to a whole bunch of issues WWE has that people have already mentioned. If you treat your wins and losses like they don't matter (until they do)... If you treat the rest of your wrestlers as inconsequential filler no matter what they do... If you make your promos two to three times as long as they should be... If you fill your show with a bunch of recaps of that one really important segment you had surrounding the same few really important wrestlers... IF YOU TREAT 2/3s OF YOUR ROSTER AS FLOUNDERING FILLER WHO NEVER DO ANYTHING OF IMPORTANCE... The only time people will watch your ****ing show is when John Cena is on or that time Vince McMahon comes back or whenever Hunner takes a shit (a literal shit, not a metaphorical one, i.e. when he cuts a promo) because why the hell else would anyone follow a match featuring a majority of your wrestlers? To see who wins? If you ain't in the WWE title picture or in a main event story what you do doesn't really matter. When you start mattering just a little bit, your momentum is sacrificed to put over dudes who don't need it. See how frustrated I sound? I hardly even watch Raw, imagine how much caps would be in this post if I did. |
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087 
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 13, 2013 10:30:47 GMT -5
They didn't botch Bryan. AT ALL. Is he losing to Sandow? No. Is he on Del Rio's Wheel of Aggression? No. He's in a feud with CM Punk against the Wyatts, an act the WWE I'm sure wants to get over. Bryan is just lower on the card, and not even all the way so he can win the Rumble and fight for the Title at Wrestlemania. It's also to build up The Authority as a threat. Big Show more than likely isn't beating Orton. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Not even the dirtsheets have predicted what card WWE is set on. Why this cynicism over Wrestlemania's main event when they haven't kept it straight what WWE is planning for I have no idea.
I WILL say however, that when Big Show loses to Orton, they should go ahead and put Ziggler, Miz, Cody or Kofi up against Orton. Even if they lose, they should at least have a chance in front of the crowds. Getting a match with Orton and looking good can lead to one of them winning the Title later on next year.
Another major thing I agree with is they've got to give everyone an actual angle. Have everyone including the lowercard fight over something. Even if it's something goofy like a parking space, or who got to be on someone's favorite talk show. The more of that, plus more interviews and backstage segments the more developed characters we can have. The sink-or-swim strategy with the midcard isn't working. Superstars aren't going to get mega crowd reactions all on their own. They have to build up to it, and be allowed to have the freedom they need to do it with. It worked for The Rock, so why not let it happen with others?
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,005
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 13, 2013 10:44:15 GMT -5
We need more obscure gimmicks for people. Have Wade get hit in the head and then he wakes up thinking it's 1776 again and he becomes an old time British guy.
That type of stuff that are so bad that it is entertaining.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 13, 2013 10:48:30 GMT -5
I am interested by all these people saying "the biggest problem is they won't make new stars!" because I think the problem is the whole mindset that "stars" exist and can be "made." Instead of everyone working together to put on the best show possible, there's this weird idea that all the cast members are actually competing with one another over positions on the card, which is ludicrously counterproductive. Even worse, it perpetuates itself. Why give midcarders interesting stories and feuds of their own when you see them as losers who couldn't win some fake competition to become big stars? And fans get into that mindset, too, even the Smart and Smark fans. Wrestling is all about guys competing for each others spot. It always has been. That's what's driven its success over the years. How much interest do you think there'd be in the industry if the mindset of "lets all play along nicely and share the spotlight" had prevailed? The same interest given to almost every other form of entertainment, because that's the mindset there? Don't fool yourself. They don't think that way in the WWE because it works best; they think that way because... well, because of the argument you made, "it's the way it's always been." But it just doesn't apply to the current model. Inter-roster competition kind of, a little bit makes sense, sort of, in a bunch of territories. On a weekly TV show? No. Nothing bogs down the WWE (or its fans) more than this ridiculous idea that everyone tunes in for My Favorite Guy. That is such a bizarre, unhelpful way of looking at things, and it only exists to perpetuate Wrestling's Legacy and to justify the insecure narrative of the most successful wrestlers actually deserving the money and fame even though they're not really fighting anybody. You tune in because the show is fun. That's how entertainment works. |
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Post by BatPunk on Nov 13, 2013 10:48:39 GMT -5
I think it's due to them relying on a "Main Event" to sell their PPV's
If anything over the past couple of years has shown us, and hopefully WWE would have noticed as well, is that a lot of the wrestling fan base have moved over from wanting to see the big championship matches, as they were the big story lines, to wanting to see the most entertaining matches on any given card, even if the story wasn't that good.
The Championship scene, for any title really, has very little pay off over the past few years. Either we don't care about the champ (Del Rio, Cena, Orton) or it's challenger (Del Rio, Cena, Orton) in which we don't really care about the story either. We and the crowds cared when we actually thought that Daniel Bryan was going to win it all, but then after getting screwed over numerous times, we stopped caring because we knew where it was going. We cared when Punk won and took the belt and went home. Only to be screwed over in the next couple of months. It's become a part of the PPV that I personally don't really enjoy anymore. How many of us just want to see what Cesaro does? What about the matches that Punk or Bryan are going to have? Is Ziggler going to have a breakout match? Will the Tag Team division have Match of the Night?
If they treated the undercard matches with the same amount of enthusiasm as they did the Championship, I believe that there would be more interest in the PPV. If there are 4 or 5 really well promoted matches with great stories behind them, people are going to want to see it more than if it was only the WWE Championship (which it sometimes is. Not even the WHC gets a good story or promotion)
WWE has so much talent right now, and there are more talented wrestlers, men and women, in NXT just waiting to come through. WWE should really get behind their own investments to help with their bottom line!
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 13, 2013 10:50:35 GMT -5
It's not the WWE's job to make sure a talent gets over. The talent is supposed to get over on his own. However, when the talent finally does get over on his own despite being saddled with an Evil Korean Chief(EKC) gimmick, the WWE typically buries him into kingdom come because it wasn't a part of their big plan...that they don't even have.
The best part is that they usually make it look like they really appreciate the rise of EKC--they push him to the IC/US title. Then he jobs, and jobs, and jobs. It's like the WWE is saying, "See, he was never really that good."
Suddenly creative has nothing for him. Just like they always wanted.
Happens all the time.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 13, 2013 10:55:16 GMT -5
We need more obscure gimmicks for people. Have Wade get hit in the head and then he wakes up thinking it's 1776 again and he becomes an old time British guy. That type of stuff that are so bad that it is entertaining. it's like I said in another thread. they really missed out by not making Zack Ryder a bitter, friend-zoned "Nice Guy" after the stuff with Eve. hell even with the heel turn the whole thing smacked of "nice guy" entitlement. |
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,403 
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Post by Rave on Nov 13, 2013 11:01:24 GMT -5
Recaps, fluff, and shilling. If they cut down on all that, they'd have time to get some of the people who don't normally get televised matches on the show.
Make the announcers give a damn about the in-ring product, instead of arguing amongst themselves, trying to get themselves over, and/or talking about unrelated things. It's disrespectful and it undermines what's going on in the ring to have them off on unrelated tangents. They need to call the matches and help get the wrestlers over.
Creative's had an awful "f*** the midcard" mentality for YEARS. It's gotta go. Ease up on the status quo guys and the part-timers. Don't be afraid to give us something new. Take a chance on stuff.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 13, 2013 11:17:55 GMT -5
For the life of me I don't see how Daniel Bryan winning clean over Cena, then beating Orton twice, then losing by a screwjob, then teaming with CM Punk makes him a midcarder. Maybe that's the problem with WWE. They've conditioned the fans that if it doesn't involve Cena or the WWE Title, it is not important.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 13, 2013 11:22:54 GMT -5
Yes, they did.
Thankfully they haven't buried him to that level yet.
Could have got them over in any number of ways rather than using the two guys most likely to be the next big stars who still need a major push themselves, and besides, it's likely that eventually, if the Wyatts do get over, they'll hit the glass ceiling too, like Daniel Bryan did. A stop-start approach rarely if ever works. Daniel Bryan had momentum and crowd support on his side, and they squandered it.
Wishful thinking
Too much of a threat. By now, Daniel Bryan should have either overcome them conclusively or be well on the way to doing so, but instead it's been a constant stream of Dusty finishes and solidification of their assertions that he's not on the level of a major star.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
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Post by Dat Dude on Nov 13, 2013 12:10:28 GMT -5
Laziness.
Lazy booking and lazy writing. Paint by numbers booking that so obviously filler until the next PPV, with no regard to long-term build of performers not in the mainevent. Booking the same matches, with the same people every week. Booking matches and attractions that should be reserved for PPV. Putting no effort into writing material for 95% of the roster and then blaming that same group of people on why nobody cares about them. No character progression, heck no character period (in most cases) and with a team of writers who could divide responsibilities that is simply inexcusable.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 13, 2013 13:33:52 GMT -5
If Daniel Bryan isn't Poochied, he's buried. Got it.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Nov 13, 2013 13:44:42 GMT -5
Vince always looks to the past in order to get people's attention.
This is proving to have very limited short term benefits, and afterwards the ratings decline further.
Consistency goes a long ways to getting people to care. It's also important to do what the fans want, as opposed to what WWE feels is best, which is ironic because I feel it's always been a reality as opposed to the storyline they've been painting.
I don't think Vince likes to admit his failures. He'd rather steer a doomed vessel into a whirlpool than take the advice of those who mapped out a safe happy route.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 13, 2013 13:48:59 GMT -5
If Daniel Bryan isn't Poochied, he's buried. Got it. No, I can accept that Bryan can't chase the title forever, but if he has to be replaced with someone else to keep Orton busy, they should put another young talent in that spot. And Bryan, even if he's not in the title picture, should still be in the main storyline feuding with some other HHH crony, not in a side feud to try to make someone a big deal fairly quick in an already top heavy roster. |
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,005
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 13, 2013 13:55:06 GMT -5
Could have got them over in any number of ways rather than using the two guys most likely to be the next big stars who still need a major push themselves, and besides, it's likely that eventually, if the Wyatts do get over, they'll hit the glass ceiling too, like Daniel Bryan did. A stop-start approach rarely if ever works. Daniel Bryan had momentum and crowd support on his side, and they squandered it. Wait the guy who has one of the longest title reigns in modern WWE history, who in this calender year has faced Rock/Taker/Brock is the guy who need a major push? I understand liking Punk and wanting to see him at the top of the card but Punk doesn't need any more main event pushes, he should be used to build up other guys like in this feud with the Wyatts. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 13, 2013 13:58:24 GMT -5
Could have got them over in any number of ways rather than using the two guys most likely to be the next big stars who still need a major push themselves, and besides, it's likely that eventually, if the Wyatts do get over, they'll hit the glass ceiling too, like Daniel Bryan did. A stop-start approach rarely if ever works. Daniel Bryan had momentum and crowd support on his side, and they squandered it. Wait the guy who has one of the longest title reigns in modern WWE history, who in this calender year has faced Rock/Taker/Brock is the guy who need a major push? I understand liking Punk and wanting to see him at the top of the card but Punk doesn't need any more main event pushes, he should be used to build up other guys like in this feud with the Wyatts. Yes he should. But it shouldn't be the Wyatts. There are already too many "main eventers" on the roster. The Wyatts should be working their way UP the ladder, not being shoved into feuds with upper tier talents immediately. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 13, 2013 14:35:05 GMT -5
Could have got them over in any number of ways rather than using the two guys most likely to be the next big stars who still need a major push themselves, and besides, it's likely that eventually, if the Wyatts do get over, they'll hit the glass ceiling too, like Daniel Bryan did. A stop-start approach rarely if ever works. Daniel Bryan had momentum and crowd support on his side, and they squandered it. I understand liking Punk and wanting to see him at the top of the card but Punk doesn't need any more main event pushes, he should be used to build up other guys like in this feud with the Wyatts. Yes. Even after the long title reign, Punk is still not as big a star as he should be. WWE have come close, but they often bog him down with weak angles, feuds and storylines which slow his momentum and progress. The Wyatts will never be at levels that Bryan and Punk can get to. A feud with them can only be a demotion for Bryan and Punk It's a mutual thing. WWE have to provide the talent with the best material, feuds and storylines to give them the best chance of success, and the talent has to use it properly. WWE aren't doing that. Talent can't get over with the shit WWE give them. |
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 13, 2013 17:53:54 GMT -5
For the life of me I don't see how Daniel Bryan winning clean over Cena, then beating Orton twice, then losing by a screwjob, then teaming with CM Punk makes him a midcarder. Maybe that's the problem with WWE. They've conditioned the fans that if it doesn't involve Cena or the WWE Title, it is not important. The problem was, the wave of popularity demanded that Bryan get and keep the belt NOW. That was what WWE f***ed up. Sometimes you need to strike while the iron's hot and when the crowd WANTS it. And the same story could have been told with Bryan as Champion, fending off corporate interference, until he finally gets robbed, wherein you do the WrestleMania chase. When you crown a new king, you need to ride that out a bit. Austin did. Bret did. HBK did. Cena and Batista did. Instead, WWE orchestrated a ton of hokey screwjobs that pissed off a lot of people and segued Big Show into Bryan's role as corporate destroyer. It was Show who who had the much stronger angle to take down the Authority. It was Show they built up as finally having enough. It was stupid. Show being filler is fine. But he's gotten much stronger character booking and motivations than Bryan. Right now, Daniel Bryan is Lex Luger in '93. We'll see what happens by 'Mania. And if he's not winning the WWE Title, there's going to be a lot of people eating crow. |
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Nov 13, 2013 18:08:53 GMT -5
Oh man I didn't even think of that. Daniel Bryan really is Lex Luger from 1993. Hell, he's already been relegated to tag team status with CM Punk much like Lex was with Bulldog (The Allied Powers!!!) until Lex left for WCW and the first episode of Nitro.
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