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Post by RAW IS GWAR on Nov 21, 2013 16:57:22 GMT -5
Why do people blame Del Rio or Curtis Axel for being boring when it's the Promotions fault for not doing anything interesting with them?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 16:59:50 GMT -5
There's an old saying about not being able to make chicken salad out of chickenshit.
And there's very little you could do to make Alberto Del Rio interesting outside of banning him from using the words "gringo" "perro" and "destiny" and then making him cut a promo.
Because that would be awkward silence greatness.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Nov 21, 2013 17:00:23 GMT -5
Because it's their lack of charisma and ability to capture the viewer in any way shape and form
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 21, 2013 17:00:41 GMT -5
Talent cannot rely solely on the bookers to give them interesting storyline. It's up to the wrestler to make that special personal connection with the crowd. That something the bookers can't do for them.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 21, 2013 17:01:23 GMT -5
We must blame them and cause a fuss before somebody thinks of blaming us!
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 21, 2013 17:03:14 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that Del Rio has the ability to get over--I just think his gimmick is holding him back. That being said, it's way to easy just to blame the promoters when he's got the push of a lifetime. It's not like they're not behind him.
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Post by Bootista on Nov 21, 2013 17:03:52 GMT -5
Del Rio is about as interesting as a Captain and Tennile record
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Post by RAW IS GWAR on Nov 21, 2013 17:16:05 GMT -5
They don't put him in good feuds and they don't give him good things to say
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 21, 2013 17:21:44 GMT -5
They don't put him in good feuds and they don't give him good things to say You don't need that to make a personal connection with the crowd. Del Rio really has no excuse, he's been booked strong on tv for 2 years, and no one usually gives a sh** about him. Could he be booked better? Sure but that applies to 99% of the roster, yet some of those other guys are way more over.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Nov 21, 2013 17:25:58 GMT -5
It's easy to always blame "creative" when this or that guy doesn't get over. It takes all the responsibility out of the hand of the performer.
Jericho talks in his first book about how cherished every second of TV time is -- promo, match, whatever. People like Jericho and Kane (and many others) have been given completely lame things and made them work, or at least work better than most would.
Cody Rhodes is a good example -- he was the 'third guy' in legacy, the guy who took all the bumps and got the least mic time, usually saying something along the lines of 'Yeah, what he said.' Million Dollar Baby Dibiase was the one everyone thought would be the star between him and Rhodes ... but Cody worked hard on his mic skills and came across better and better and started to get more and more of the promo time and then more and more of the offense in the ring.
When he was saddled with the "guy who talks about hygene and hair care products" crap, he embraced it and made it work to some degree, so much so that it evolved into the Dashing character and then the Horribly Disfigured Dashing character.
I like Del Rio just fine. I think his in-ring stuff is always great. I liked him better when he winked at the opponent and had this "I am above you and we both know it" air about himself. I think he'll be fine in the long run. Axel, on the other hand, does nothing for me. If his daddy was Joe Smith who worked in a car wash I doubt he'd ever have made the main roster. I haven't seen any point where he has taken anything that he was given and done anything with it to make me care.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 21, 2013 17:40:30 GMT -5
It's partly intangible charisma, which both men struggle with (note: not totally lack, struggle with) and cannot be booked into existence.
At the end of the day, if Santino can get over with a sock on his hand and a fake Italian accent, and you can't get over as a main event heel with 20 minute matches every show, I think we know who's earning his pay.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 21, 2013 17:41:53 GMT -5
I think Del Rio in 2013 gets a bit of a bad rap, if only because the face turn early in the year was working. Granted, he wasn't reinventing the wheel, but he was getting a decent face response from the crowd.
However.
The fact that the face turn really came out of nowhere didn't help maximize how babyface over he could be. It did look like he was having fun as a babyface. He seemed energetic. The buddy relationship between he and Ricardo certainly helped, because Ricardo is great for getting sympathy. BUT the problem remains: why did he turn face? It was too abrupt. It's not like fans were chomping at the bit for him to turn face. So turning face for no reason other than 'just because' didn't help him out.
Putting a tepid face like a newly turned Del Rio against a returning Jack Swagger also didn't help. Swagger was back after a break for a few months which beforehand was remembered for how far his stock had fallen since 2010. Swagger was last entertaining when he had the Swagger Soaring Eagle. Swagger's new Tea Party gimmick didn't fit him. The fact that Dutch Mantell was brought in to be Swagger's mouthpiece just illustrated the fact that Swagger was already damaged goods. Swagger's run-in with the law before Wrestlemania also squandered the limited potential of the Wrestlemania angle. Eddie Guerrero could make a feud with a racist American work but that's because Eddie's face run had the foundation laid down already. Del Rio was never at the point as a face where Guerrero was when he started moving up to the main event. Again, bad booking, circumstances outside the ring, and simply rushing the story just because you can hurt the potential of Del Rio's face turn.
Now Del Rio is back as the same generic aggressive heel gunning for the WHC that we've seen for the past couple of years. Yawn. At least the turn back to heel was something done well with Dolph Ziggler switching alignment, but the booking follow-up certainly did neither man any favours.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Nov 21, 2013 17:45:42 GMT -5
I think it's just the other side of the argument that some individuals failed because creative didn't 'allow them to flourish/use them properly'...somebody's gotta take the blame.
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Post by Unaffiliated on Nov 21, 2013 17:53:22 GMT -5
I honestly fail to see what's so boring about the both of them, at least compared to everyone else on the roster. I do believe booking and gimmick are at least equally important as the individual in terms of getting over with the crowd.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Nov 21, 2013 19:25:51 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes is a good example -- he was the 'third guy' in legacy, the guy who took all the bumps and got the least mic time, usually saying something along the lines of 'Yeah, what he said.' Million Dollar Baby Dibiase was the one everyone thought would be the star between him and Rhodes ... but Cody worked hard on his mic skills and came across better and better and started to get more and more of the promo time and then more and more of the offense in the ring. When he was saddled with the "guy who talks about hygene and hair care products" crap, he embraced it and made it work to some degree, so much so that it evolved into the Dashing character and then the Horribly Disfigured Dashing character. I like Del Rio just fine. I think his in-ring stuff is always great. I liked him better when he winked at the opponent and had this "I am above you and we both know it" air about himself. I think he'll be fine in the long run. Axel, on the other hand, does nothing for me. If his daddy was Joe Smith who worked in a car wash I doubt he'd ever have made the main roster. I haven't seen any point where he has taken anything that he was given and done anything with it to make me care. The Dashing Cody Rhodes character was pretty much just a model type character. As for Curtis Axel, I like him. His look says Anderson, his wrestling style is a little bit Mr Perfect, a little bit Hart, with a few other influences tossed in. It makes an entertaining combination to be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 19:52:21 GMT -5
If I don't like someone = black hole of charisma If I like someone = creative is holdin' em down maaaaaan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 20:03:08 GMT -5
It's both usually. The one third quality is possibly backstage reasons of how a wrestler who is being saddled with a horrible character or has no idea of how to be natural with it doesn't speak out with creative or the agents or Vince or HHH of why it's not a good idea and try work on a compromise or work together on how to improve this character. The worst thing you can do at any job is pretend you know how to do something when you don't and not seek help or a compromise. Especially if it's results based
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 21, 2013 20:04:05 GMT -5
This is going to end up being one of those multi-page threads, isn't it?
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Post by machomuta on Nov 21, 2013 20:05:25 GMT -5
People are blaming the talent, because it is the easy thing to do.
WWE gave ADR the gimmick. ADR is just doing what WWE wants him to do.
The Rock is proof that you cant put all the blame on the talent for being boring.
Rocky Mavia = boring and bland as hell The Rock = one of the most charismatic wrestlers ever.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 21, 2013 20:07:49 GMT -5
Some guys just don't have it. Khali for example is never going to be anything but a clumsy freak who can't wrestle, no matter what creative give him
I suggested a Brain Busters-type team for Joe Hennig with Ted Dibiase. I still stand by that. It would have worked. Creative botched his re-debut. He never stood a chance
With Alberto, the problem has been two-fold. First, promo material. It's shit. Repetitive and tedious. Second, gimmick drift. I don't know what he's supposed to be anymore. His original "Million Dollar Juan" gimmick was a decent idea. They should have stuck with that, but in the mid-card. He's not world title material.
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