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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Nov 26, 2013 20:03:31 GMT -5
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 26, 2013 20:03:35 GMT -5
Not really, no-one wants to see him get the kind of relentless push certain others have received as the WWE has attempted to make them the face of the company, people just want him to be given a fair shake, to see what happens when he's given the belt while he's hot so has a chance to take the ball and run with it. Guys like Orton, Seamus and Del Rio get chance after chance after chance, no matter how the crowd feels about them, so the company isn't going to collapse because someone that live crowds have gotten behind is getting a title reign. But he already HAS gotten that fair shake, that's my main point. To me every thing that happens to him afterwards is extra padding. A combined two reigns of like 12 hours is a fair shake? C'mon now.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 26, 2013 20:10:17 GMT -5
Not really, no-one wants to see him get the kind of relentless push certain others have received as the WWE has attempted to make them the face of the company, people just want him to be given a fair shake, to see what happens when he's given the belt while he's hot so has a chance to take the ball and run with it. Guys like Orton, Seamus and Del Rio get chance after chance after chance, no matter how the crowd feels about them, so the company isn't going to collapse because someone that live crowds have gotten behind is getting a title reign. But he already HAS gotten that fair shake, that's my main point. To me every thing that happens to him afterwards is extra padding. Okay, so just for comparison's sake, if Daniel Bryan has been given a fair shake relative to his overness, then how the crap would you rate the chance given to Alberto Del Rio who has had more accolades with far less reaction?
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 26, 2013 20:10:29 GMT -5
Clash, you likely wouldn't have nearly the difficulty understanding all of this and the problem people have if you weren't a giant John Cena mark to the point where it's comical. It's one thing to be a fan and have your preferences about characterization, it's another thing to willingly stuff your face in the sand in a way where you wouldn't be this daft under any other circumstance. This is not complicated. At all. People are tired of seeing the same thing. They didn't actually give us anything new without strings and asterisks attached. Even when Cena was 100% absent, Bryan was put in the position where he was never shown as being even remotely legitimate due to the sheer amount of clownshoes nonsense that was thrown his way. The moment Cena came back, it became the same old crap, and Daniel Bryan decided he was infinitely more interested in fighting bearded guys instead of the giant company conspiracy that goes miles down. It's not complicated. No one is saying John Cena needs to go away, and you KNOW that, we're saying he needs to move down the card a bit and do something else. We're tired of this song and dance, and I am especially tired of you taking any pretense that people might want some kind of different direction as an ever-increasing vindictive against John Cena to want to taint his legacy and reduce him to a minor player. Grow up. This is especially amusing: Radio Clash is an omnipotent entity that can see every possible reality, including hypothetical ones. He's ABSOLUTELY positive he'd be happy with what the WWE has done up to this point if he were a die-hard fan. Ok, first of all dude, that's flamebaiting. Check your PMs. Second, actually I wouldn't complain at all if Bryan got to be the new company face, they could do a lot worse. But I don't know where you're picking up that I think Bryan being on top will damage Cena's legacy- that's silly. My issue is with the idea that WWE hasn't been fair to him overall, which IMO is equally absurd. I only cited Cena as a reason why it wasn't essential Bryan become the man RIGHT NOW. He obviously isn't gonna be on top for too much longer, but as long as he's here, I don't see how Bryan and Punk being his 1b and 1c really hurts them.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 26, 2013 20:14:11 GMT -5
I don't see how Cena being the 1B to Bryan's 1A hurts him either?
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 26, 2013 20:14:47 GMT -5
Kinda off-topic here...
As a guy who isn't nearly as emotionally invested as most of you guys and gals in wrestling, I guess the responses some users have about this topic seem foreign to me.
I look at wrestling more as an entertainment and tend to not take things as seriously as some people. Not saying that's wrong or anything, it's just something I can't really relate to.
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Post by Error on Nov 26, 2013 20:18:15 GMT -5
I just wanted him to get a fair shake even if it was from Summerslam to Survivor Series. Have a legitimate and meaningful moment in the sun, not one that is ruined by horrid storytelling (and yes, that is all he's gotten IMO).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:18:39 GMT -5
Kinda off-topic here... As a guy who isn't nearly as emotionally invested as most of you guys and gals in wrestling, I guess the responses some users have about this topic seem foreign to me. I look at wrestling more as an entertainment and tend to not take things as seriously as some people. Not saying that's wrong or anything, it's just something I can't really relate to. Even smarks get disappointed if they don't see a match result that's fun for them over and over. A lot of people like Bryan and they're excited that someone they like is actually winning. Like they get to be a mark, root for someone, and the guy actually wins. It's no fun when you get on that train and mark out...then have the logical conclusion taken away from you. No matter how many times you read the wrestling observer. =P I fully put myself in that boat btw. It disappointed me also. I had less fun watching because of what they've done. I saw this and thought "Hey, cool, MY GUY is going to get the big wins!" Didn't happen. That's no fun.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Nov 26, 2013 20:18:42 GMT -5
Unfortunately yes, even though people seem to forget that the most popular guy doesn't necessarily mean "best to main event"
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Post by botchingitup on Nov 26, 2013 20:20:31 GMT -5
Second, actually I wouldn't complain at all if Bryan got to be the new company face, they could do a lot worse. But I don't know where you're picking up that I think Bryan being on top will damage Cena's legacy- that's silly. My issue is with the idea that WWE hasn't been fair to him overall, which IMO is equally absurd. I only cited Cena as a reason why it wasn't essential Bryan become the man RIGHT NOW. He obviously isn't gonna be on top for too much longer, but as long as he's here, I don't see how Bryan and Punk being his 1b and 1c really hurts them. Why do they need to be the 1b and 1c at all? This is what I'm talking about, there's all this much ado about BS regarding whether someone "should" pass Cena or why it's such a big deal that they won't, but all it comes from is status quo, nonsense.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 26, 2013 20:23:12 GMT -5
But he already HAS gotten that fair shake, that's my main point. To me every thing that happens to him afterwards is extra padding. Okay, so just for comparison's sake, if Daniel Bryan has been given a fair shake relative to his overness, then how the crap would you rate the chance given to Alberto Del Rio who has had more accolades with far less reaction? Oh, they've both gotten more than a fair deal booking wise. It's just that one managed to connect with crowds and the other is human Nyquil.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 26, 2013 20:25:02 GMT -5
Kinda off-topic here... As a guy who isn't nearly as emotionally invested as most of you guys and gals in wrestling, I guess the responses some users have about this topic seem foreign to me. I look at wrestling more as an entertainment and tend to not take things as seriously as some people. Not saying that's wrong or anything, it's just something I can't really relate to. Totally get it. I love D-Bry's work, enjoy watching him, and find his character entertaining. However, many of the issues that I have with how he's been handled, honestly, have nothing to do with him. Emotional investment in a character, any character, in any form of entertainment medium, is the desired effect that the author or actor is going for. If you don't give a damn about a character, you will not be emotionally invested in what happens to said character. This doesn't mean that you will have the desired emotional connection. For example, as a sophomore in high school, I had to read Tess of the d'Urbervilles, and I hated it. The main character, in my view, was a money grubbing skank-bag, and when she was hanged at the end, though it was supposed to be sad and tragic, made me laugh. I did not have the prescribed "emotional reaction", but I was invested in the story enough that I cared that something definitive happen at the end. I am the same way with movies, with books, with plays or TV shows. If I say "eh, I love cop shows, but I don't give a damn about the characters", then yeah I'll be entertained by anything within the medium. However, while I may like COPS, for instance, a good procedural with characters that catch my attention and make me emote are going to have me invested for longer and make me watch. That's how I got through those God awful Twilight books. I read the first one because my nieces wanted us to read something together, and have a family book club thing. I found myself drawn in by two of the side characters, and it was the interest in those two that kept me going, despite the fact that the main characters and that story arch were an absolute chore. Yes, if a character that I enjoy and feel an emotional investment in is on the show in any capacity, I can watch that segment. However, if the main focus is on people that I have no investment in and, in some cases such as Orton or Triphanie, find myself repelled, then I have no reason to watch those segments, or pay for the pay-per-view product that will focus so heavily on things that don't matter to me.
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Post by botchingitup on Nov 26, 2013 20:25:37 GMT -5
Why do people insist on calling this a "fair deal" in terms of booking?
It only LOOKS like a fair deal because we've been conditioned to see infinitely more deplorable booking for everyone that isn't a Cena or an Orton or a Triple H.
When you've grown accustomed to a plate of literal feces for 5 years, of course a hamburger is going to seem like Ruth's Chris.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 26, 2013 20:33:03 GMT -5
Kinda off-topic here... As a guy who isn't nearly as emotionally invested as most of you guys and gals in wrestling, I guess the responses some users have about this topic seem foreign to me. I look at wrestling more as an entertainment and tend to not take things as seriously as some people. Not saying that's wrong or anything, it's just something I can't really relate to. Even smarks get disappointed if they don't see a match result that's fun for them over and over. A lot of people like Bryan and they're excited that someone they like is actually winning. Like they get to be a mark, root for someone, and the guy actually wins. It's no fun when you get on that train and mark out...then have the logical conclusion taken away from you. No matter how many times you read the wrestling observer. =P I fully put myself in that boat btw. It disappointed me also. I had less fun watching because of what they've done. I saw this and thought "Hey, cool, MY GUY is going to get the big wins!" Didn't happen. That's no fun. I totally get that viewpoint. I'm a huge mark for certain guys and gals (Christian,AJ for instance) so I'm hugely invested in their big matches. When Christian wins a huge I mark the f*** out, it's just I don't have the same passion when they lose as some people have when their favorites lose. I look at it more as, well that sucked and get over it pretty quickly. I'm not saying people who are anger about this Bryan booking are wrong, it's just something I don't do.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 26, 2013 20:33:40 GMT -5
I don't see how Cena being the 1B to Bryan's 1A hurts him either? It certainly wouldn't. I'm really just tackling the idea some people have that Cena's somehow unworthy of being the company face, the misconception that he was handed everything while Bryan wasn't. That's why Bryan's "you're not a wrestler" promos bugged me so much. Most of us here know that poppycock, but scarily enough a lot of fans do think that way. And if WWE does want to keep using Cena as their mainstream figurehead, it's probably not in his or their best interest to cut him off at the knees like that by having Bryan trying to convince the crowd he sucks. There are more effective ways than that to build tension between faces. Back on topic, Bryan as The Man would be fine with me, but him having great matches anywhere on the card's fine with me also.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:40:04 GMT -5
I don't see how Cena being the 1B to Bryan's 1A hurts him either? It certainly wouldn't. I'm really just tackling the idea some people have that Cena's somehow unworthy of being the company face, the misconception that he was handed everything while Bryan wasn't. That's why Bryan's "you're not a wrestler" promos bugged me so much. Most of us here know that poppycock, but scarily enough a lot of fans do think that way. And if WWE does want to keep using Cena as their mainstream figurehead, it's probably not in his or their best interest to cut him off at the knees like that by having Bryan trying to convince the crowd he sucks. There are more effective ways than that to build tension between faces. Back on topic, Bryan as The Man would be fine with me, but him having great matches anywhere on the card's fine with me also. As someone who boos Cena, I can say I know Cena can go in the ring. He's gone from shitty to mediocre to pretty damn good, lets clear that up right now. People like booing Cena because it's fun to boo Cena. Look at all those face/face Cena main events. Cena vs RVD, Cena vs Bryan, Cena vs Punk. People like the big match with the non obvious outcome, where they can boo Cena and Cena plays the heel. That's some of his most entertaining stuff to me. I don't want to see Cena depushed. I ENJOY Cena in those kinds of matches, playing the foil to "my guy", whoever it might be. We know he can wrestle now, but that's the gimmick. "YOU CANT WRESTLE! YOU CAN'T WRESTLE!" etc. It's for fun. Does that make sense?
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 26, 2013 20:40:20 GMT -5
I don't see how Cena being the 1B to Bryan's 1A hurts him either? It certainly wouldn't. I'm really just tackling the idea some people have that Cena's somehow unworthy of being the company face, the misconception that he was handed everything while Bryan wasn't. That's why Bryan's "you're not a wrestler" promos bugged me so much. Most of us here know that poppycock, but scarily enough a lot of fans do think that way. And if WWE does want to keep using Cena as their mainstream figurehead, it's probably not in his or their best interest to cut him off at the knees like that by having Bryan trying to convince the crowd he sucks. There are more effective ways than that to build tension between faces. Back on topic, Bryan as The Man would be fine with me, but him having great matches anywhere on the card's fine with me also. Would Cena, not being in the main event again, but having good matches anywhere on the card, be fine with you? And WWE does that kind of booking to justify the booing Cena gets in these face vs face matches. They know he's going to get shit on, and they don't want to fix "why", so they contrive this silly "Cena's not a real Rassler!" bullshit to paint the dissent as absurd. It's actually reverse psychology. And it's stupid.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 26, 2013 20:41:35 GMT -5
Why do people insist on calling this a "fair deal" in terms of booking? It only LOOKS like a fair deal because we've been conditioned to see infinitely more deplorable booking for everyone that isn't a Cena or an Orton or a Triple H. When you've grown accustomed to a plate of literal feces for 5 years, of course a hamburger is going to seem like Ruth's Chris. I think words like "deplorable" and "feces" as far as booking would be way more apt if we were talking about the likes of Yoshi Tatsu or even Zack Ryder. A spunky babyface who's sold as someone who can beat damn near everybody but is opposed by the system, I disagree.
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Post by botchingitup on Nov 26, 2013 20:45:14 GMT -5
I think words like "deplorable" and "feces" as far as booking would be way more apt if we were talking about the likes of Yoshi Tatsu or even Zack Ryder. A spunky babyface who's sold as someone who can beat damn near everybody but is opposed by the system, I disagree. Sounds like you didn't read very clearly. The point was "deplorable" and "feces" referred to the booking of yesteryear, i.e. Ryder or Tatsu. My point is that they've improved, but they didn't no enough, because all of the system opposition ran way too far and ended up curbing any momentum. There was no proper end to the story or resolution for the face. It was just nothing but getting beaten down and false-starts. That's not cancer, but it's not really good booking either.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 26, 2013 20:46:17 GMT -5
It certainly wouldn't. I'm really just tackling the idea some people have that Cena's somehow unworthy of being the company face, the misconception that he was handed everything while Bryan wasn't. That's why Bryan's "you're not a wrestler" promos bugged me so much. Most of us here know that poppycock, but scarily enough a lot of fans do think that way. And if WWE does want to keep using Cena as their mainstream figurehead, it's probably not in his or their best interest to cut him off at the knees like that by having Bryan trying to convince the crowd he sucks. There are more effective ways than that to build tension between faces. Back on topic, Bryan as The Man would be fine with me, but him having great matches anywhere on the card's fine with me also. Would Cena, not being in the main event again, but having good matches anywhere on the card, be fine with you? And WWE does that kind of booking to justify the booing Cena gets in these face vs face matches. They know he's going to get shit on, and they don't want to fix "why", so they contrive this silly "Cena's not a real Rassler!" bullshit to paint the dissent as absurd. It's actually reverse psychology. And it's stupid. That'd be very fine with me. He's beyond done it all already, and it'd also fix mostly why he gets shit on.
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