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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 4, 2013 0:29:13 GMT -5
That'll teach the fans to get behind someone Vince doesn't want them to. Or not spending the money to watch him wrestle. Considering how horrible the plots around him were, that would be like blaming The Rock for nobody watching Doom. I'm not saying that the WWE is or isn't blaming Bryan - I don't know either way. Never worked there. But if they are placing the blame and success of a ppv buyrate entirely on the wrestler, they are necessarily implying that their writing is completely without any sort of consequence. There's no other conclusion to draw here, if they look at buyrates and equate them to the main event not drawing, then they are disregarding that their writing means anything at all, positive or negative. Which...admittedly would explain why their writing has this "I don't even care" vibe to it. It's like saying "No matter what we write, good or bad, it won't make a bit of difference. Moreover, if you are incapable of turning our shit to gold, that's your fault. Go back to being a leprechaun dammit." Considering how Bryan's angle sucked, of course nobody wanted to see that. They aren't just paying to see him wrestle, they are(or would be) paying to see their favorite wrestler star in a story they enjoy seeing. If the story involves their favorite wrestler getting the shit beaten out of him and unable to get revenge on the dastardly villains...well, who wants to see that? That's just a bad plot. Again, I'm not saying that they are or aren't blaming Bryan for the buyrates... ...I'm just saying that if they are, they are kind of insane.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 4, 2013 0:29:56 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I think they're setting up Bryan to win the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania this year, but I'm not worrying over what happens at Wresltemania. I'm just focused on what's going on now and how the rest of the middle plays out because there are too many variables. I can understand times when someone lays out all of why they're not excited over something in WWE. But, the amount of negativity in the atmosphere around here with posts like "F*** this company!", yes I am frustrated with. There's constructive criticism and then there's annoying hatefulness. And to me, it feels too much like the latter. No offense dude, but I've seen you make some very bold claims since Summerslam. It's nice to be optimistic, but it's another thing for you to gripe about anyone who doesn't agree with your outlook of things. You may not think that WWE drops the ball on big things...good for you. But to outright claim that people are wrong for criticizing anything that has happened. Get over yourself. I've been watching wrestling for 20 years. I've seen WWE drop the ball on many things. I've also seen them do good things when they want to do good things. BUT...they continue to show contempt for their fanbase by selling them short and giving them less than they deserve. They have done exactly that since Summerslam. This has been the epitome of phoning it in. And yet you continue to make excuses. So what's your excuse going to be if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble? That he wins the Chamber? Or that he wins MITB? Summerslam? Survivor Series? As far as hatefulness, you must be confused of what hate truly is. Everything I've said has been constructive to what wrestling is; believability, astute characters and inventive storylines. If I was hateful, I would criticize Orton for getting divorced or being an asshole in real life or something, giving no merit to why that has anything to do with his onscreen character.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,179
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Dec 4, 2013 0:45:34 GMT -5
*Randy Orton defeated Daniel Bryan by pinfall after hitting the RKO. The Wyatt Family distracted Bryan before the end of the match then Bray Wyatt appeared on the big screen and told Bryan to join them. Just wait and see guys, he's still obviously going to win the Royal Rumble and make his way back to the main event. Obviously.
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,516
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Post by kevin on Dec 4, 2013 1:21:10 GMT -5
*Randy Orton defeated Daniel Bryan by pinfall after hitting the RKO. The Wyatt Family distracted Bryan before the end of the match then Bray Wyatt appeared on the big screen and told Bryan to join them. Just wait and see guys, he's still obviously going to win the Royal Rumble and make his way back to the main event. Obviously. Yes because no one who ever gets distracted by someone thier fueding against and lost a main event match ever amounted to anything ever again. Truly getting distracted and loseing a main event match is the kiss of death. I dare anyone to come up with an example of when such a person ever won a royal rumble or title ever again.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 1:38:32 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I think they're setting up Bryan to win the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania this year, but I'm not worrying over what happens at Wresltemania. I'm just focused on what's going on now and how the rest of the middle plays out because there are too many variables. I can understand times when someone lays out all of why they're not excited over something in WWE. But, the amount of negativity in the atmosphere around here with posts like "F*** this company!", yes I am frustrated with. There's constructive criticism and then there's annoying hatefulness. And to me, it feels too much like the latter. No offense dude, but I've seen you make some very bold claims since Summerslam. It's nice to be optimistic, but it's another thing for you to gripe about anyone who doesn't agree with your outlook of things. You may not think that WWE drops the ball on big things...good for you. But to outright claim that people are wrong for criticizing anything that has happened. Get over yourself. I've been watching wrestling for 20 years. I've seen WWE drop the ball on many things. I've also seen them do good things when they want to do good things. BUT...they continue to show contempt for their fanbase by selling them short and giving them less than they deserve. They have done exactly that since Summerslam. This has been the epitome of phoning it in. And yet you continue to make excuses. So what's your excuse going to be if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble? That he wins the Chamber? Or that he wins MITB? Summerslam? Survivor Series? As far as hatefulness, you must be confused of what hate truly is. Everything I've said has been constructive to what wrestling is; believability, astute characters and inventive storylines. If I was hateful, I would criticize Orton for getting divorced or being an asshole in real life or something, giving no merit to why that has anything to do with his onscreen character. That is not what I said. And you tell me to get over myself, when you're still acting like I was targeting YOU when I wasn't? I don't like the screwjob finishes at HIAC or Battleground, and there has been some thought put into a number of posts within certain threads. But in others, there isn't. A post or thread that consists solely of something like "this sucks" and nothing else does nothing. That's the kind of hate I'm talking about. My arguments have nothing to do with everything you have done, I'm just tired everything being taken far too seriously than it should be.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 1:43:17 GMT -5
*Randy Orton defeated Daniel Bryan by pinfall after hitting the RKO. The Wyatt Family distracted Bryan before the end of the match then Bray Wyatt appeared on the big screen and told Bryan to join them. Just wait and see guys, he's still obviously going to win the Royal Rumble and make his way back to the main event. Obviously. Just wait and see, Orton and Cena will fight over unifying the belts from now until Wrestlemania. They'll just do away with the rematch clause, and HHH will pin both of then at Wrestlemania to prove he is The Game for the 4,000th time. Typical WWE and their status quo.
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Post by Germansuplex on Dec 4, 2013 1:46:18 GMT -5
So the IWC darling lost by distraction to the reigning WWE champion while both are feuding with someone else. I don't see the problem.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 4, 2013 1:48:52 GMT -5
That is not what I said. And you tell me to get over myself, when you're still acting like I was targeting YOU when I wasn't? I don't like the screwjob finishes at HIAC or Battleground, and there has been some thought put into a number of posts within certain threads. But in others, there isn't. A post or thread that consists solely of something like "this sucks" and nothing else does nothing. That's the kind of hate I'm talking about. My arguments have nothing to do with everything you have done, I'm just tired everything being taken far too seriously than it should be. You weren't targeting me, but you WERE targeting anyone who didn't agree with the lovely little main event for TLC. Just because someone doesn't go into great detail about why something does or does not suck, doesn't mean they aren't just as passionate about wrestling as you are. That isn't hate. That's frustration. If you want petty hate, go into one of the sports threads in Off Topic, you'll get plenty of pettiness there. And wrestling should be taken seriously. Yes, it's a forum of entertainment, but it should be their policy to put out the best product every week. And they aren't doing that. And when you aren't taking things seriously, your fanbase is not going to care, hence the decline in PPV sales. WWE doesn't get it! They cut people short. They continue to used tired "proven" methods and fail to see the problems that lie ahead if they don't fix these problems.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 2:03:38 GMT -5
That is not what I said. And you tell me to get over myself, when you're still acting like I was targeting YOU when I wasn't? I don't like the screwjob finishes at HIAC or Battleground, and there has been some thought put into a number of posts within certain threads. But in others, there isn't. A post or thread that consists solely of something like "this sucks" and nothing else does nothing. That's the kind of hate I'm talking about. My arguments have nothing to do with everything you have done, I'm just tired everything being taken far too seriously than it should be. You weren't targeting me, but you WERE targeting anyone who didn't agree with the lovely little main event for TLC. Just because someone doesn't go into great detail about why something does or does not suck, doesn't mean they aren't just as passionate about wrestling as you are. That isn't hate. That's frustration. If you want petty hate, go into one of the sports threads in Off Topic, you'll get plenty of pettiness there. And wrestling should be taken seriously. Yes, it's a forum of entertainment, but it should be their policy to put out the best product every week. And they aren't doing that. And when you aren't taking things seriously, your fanbase is not going to care, hence the decline in PPV sales. WWE doesn't get it! They cut people short. They continue to used tired "proven" methods and fail to see the problems that lie ahead if they don't fix these problems. A decline in the last two months (HIAC did fine), but it's not like it was when Diesel had the WWE Title. They still have more sponsors than they had a while ago. And a steady number of people that tune in every week. Plus, they have come in second behind Monday Night Football. There's always room for improvement in WWE, but with the number of great matches this year I'd say they have been trying to put out the best product. But it's not going to live up to everyone's standards. It obviously doesn't to yours, but it does to mine. And it does to others. Just because I like where the product is, and think they have things planned to keep an angle going rather than give up on it too soon doesn't mean I'm "making excuses". I'm fine right now with what I think the Road to Wrestlemania is, and I'm not going to put up with anyone who wants stomp around just because I express the slightest bit of optimism.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 2:04:28 GMT -5
Than why are they all of a sudden doing Cena vs. Orton at TLC in a unification match? And if not there, it WILL happen at Royal Rumble. Unless they go with Punk, I think this opens the door very wide for Bryan to win the Rumble (or Elimination Chamber) and go on to Wrestlemania. Also, if they really blamed SummerSlam and the other buyrates on Bryan, there's no way he'd main event RAW so many times like he has after each of them. They're doing this because it is a major attraction and want the buys, thought that'd be obvious giving the whole "wanting major attractions" thing. And by most accounts Punk is the odds on favorite to win the Rumble. As far as main eventing FREE SHOWS, there you have it. People have no problem watching him for free but thanks to the booking they aren't paying to watch him. Vince has talked about this. There's a strange dichotomy being created by virtue of all of this. Most in-Arena fans are clamoring and chanting for Bryan, often over those WWE is going with instead, and often hijacking moments not intended for him, but Vince won't book the promotion around him, because he figures Bryan is the issue and cause (and not the horrid booking) that led to WWE not doing well in early fall. So, basically, we're getting a product presented that appears as if its being vehemently rejected by the television audience, but at the same time, Vince is unwilling to stick to a battle plan and take a few losses in the interim to convert those at home. People seem to forget that Cena was not a big ratings guy on Smackdown during 2004-2005. He was blown away by both Guerrero and Rey. But he got strong reactions and started moving merchandise, and WWE protected and positioned him as heir apparent anyway, until viewers eventually bought into his act, too. He wasn't even a TV draw in mid 2005 either. He didn't draw any TV ratings in fact until he feuded with Edge. Hell, that PPV that Edge took the belt from him, in January 2006, was his first ever PPV Main Event. The point I'm making is, no one today can really break through, like Cena, like Austin, because WWE gives up too easy. If WWE had this mentality in 1996, they'd be in rough shape today, because there'd be imbeciles decrying Austin as a failure for not drawing any TV numbers. WWE has a "right here, right now" motto, but disregards the fact that the reason guys like Cena ARE stars is because they weathered the storm with them.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 4, 2013 2:15:36 GMT -5
A decline in the last two months (HIAC did fine), but it's not like it was when Diesel had the WWE Title. They still have more sponsors than they had a while ago. And a steady number of people that tune in every week. Plus, they have come in second behind Monday Night Football. There's always room for improvement in WWE, but with the number of great matches this year I'd say they have been trying to put out the best product. But it's not going to live up to everyone's standards. It obviously doesn't to yours, but it does to mine. And it does to others. Just because I like where the product is, and think they have things planned to keep an angle going rather than give up on it too soon doesn't mean I'm "making excuses". I'm fine right now with what I think the Road to Wrestlemania is, and I'm not going to put up with anyone who wants stomp around just because I express the slightest bit of optimism. Again, you're not seeing what you did. No one is attacking you for enjoying the product. Good for you. What you're doing though, is attacking people who don't agree with you. I mean even if at one point you were attacked by someone for liking what is happening, doesn't mean you have to return the favor with anyone who doesn't. That's what you did in this thread, and it's what you've done in others from what I've seen. You rush to WWE's aid as if subjectivity is something that can clearly be defended. You don't want to "put up with it"? You said yourself that it isn't going to live up to everyone's standards, so what's the problem then? That someone isn't happy when you are? And that gives you the entitlement to attack those who don't?
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 2:39:42 GMT -5
A decline in the last two months (HIAC did fine), but it's not like it was when Diesel had the WWE Title. They still have more sponsors than they had a while ago. And a steady number of people that tune in every week. Plus, they have come in second behind Monday Night Football. There's always room for improvement in WWE, but with the number of great matches this year I'd say they have been trying to put out the best product. But it's not going to live up to everyone's standards. It obviously doesn't to yours, but it does to mine. And it does to others. Just because I like where the product is, and think they have things planned to keep an angle going rather than give up on it too soon doesn't mean I'm "making excuses". I'm fine right now with what I think the Road to Wrestlemania is, and I'm not going to put up with anyone who wants stomp around just because I express the slightest bit of optimism. Again, you're not seeing what you did. No one is attacking you for enjoying the product. Good for you. What you're doing though, is attacking people who don't agree with you. I mean even if at one point you were attacked by someone for liking what is happening, doesn't mean you have to return the favor with anyone who doesn't. That's what you did in this thread, and it's what you've done in others from what I've seen. You rush to WWE's aid as if subjectivity is something that can clearly be defended. You don't want to "put up with it"? You said yourself that it isn't going to live up to everyone's standards, so what's the problem then? That someone isn't happy when you are? And that gives you the entitlement to attack those who don't? I'm just tired of the posts where someone tries to speak for everyone, when it's only their opinion and they're warping around their won logic. I was wrong in this case. If I see something that's a blanket statement and contributes nothing to the subject, yeah I'm going to say something about it. And no, I don't know what you're referring to in the rest of your post. I may state my disagreement when someone leaves a post that lays out what they feel, but I haven't attacked them.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 4, 2013 2:45:04 GMT -5
I'm just tired of the posts where someone tries to speak for everyone, when it's only their opinion and they're warping around their won logic. I was wrong in this case. If I see something that's a blanket statement and contributes nothing to the subject, yeah I'm going to say something about it. And no, I don't know what you're referring to in the rest of your post. I may state my disagreement when someone leaves a post that lays out what they feel, but I haven't attacked them. You "fixed" a post to state that the pain in the match will be felt by the Cena/Orton haters. That's the same kind of blanket statement used as the so-called haters do. You may be tired of all the posts where someone speaks for everyone. Well, that goes both ways.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 2:58:36 GMT -5
I'm just tired of the posts where someone tries to speak for everyone, when it's only their opinion and they're warping around their won logic. I was wrong in this case. If I see something that's a blanket statement and contributes nothing to the subject, yeah I'm going to say something about it. And no, I don't know what you're referring to in the rest of your post. I may state my disagreement when someone leaves a post that lays out what they feel, but I haven't attacked them. You "fixed" a post to state that the pain in the match will be felt by the Cena/Orton haters. That's the same kind of blanket statement used as the so-called haters do. You may be tired of all the posts where someone speaks for everyone. Well, that goes both ways. A number of the people hating on the match also hate Orton. Like I said before, the amount of threads about it blinded my perception. Sometimes I like to fight fire with fire, but I already admitted I made a mistake. What do you want from me? Now here you are, cycling an argument back to where it started. I'm done.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 3:06:23 GMT -5
You "fixed" a post to state that the pain in the match will be felt by the Cena/Orton haters. That's the same kind of blanket statement used as the so-called haters do. You may be tired of all the posts where someone speaks for everyone. Well, that goes both ways. A number of the people hating on the match also hate Orton. Like I said before, the amount of threads about it blinded my perception. Sometimes I like to fight fire with fire, but I already admitted I made a mistake. What do you want from me? Now here you are, cycling an argument back to where it started. I'm done. This should have been your response like five responses ago. The horse wasn't just beat, it was run over, stabbed, lit on fire, pureed, and then fed to another horse that died before the cycle continued.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 3:16:48 GMT -5
I stand by what I said other than that mistake. It should have been over when I admitted it.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 3:26:10 GMT -5
I stand by what I said other than that mistake. It should have been over when I admitted it. It's ok, man. I was just teasing. I just wanted to use the horse line.
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Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Dec 4, 2013 4:51:41 GMT -5
So the IWC darling lost by distraction to the reigning WWE champion while both are feuding with someone else. I don't see the problem. The problem is that Bryan didn't win in 10 seconds and wasn't proclaimed champion of the universe. Raw wasn't changed to Monday Night Bryan and a CM Punk/Daniel Bryan 60 minute Iron Man match wasn't announced for Wrestlemania. IT'S NOT FAIR!
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Post by Instant Classic on Dec 4, 2013 4:57:56 GMT -5
Oh no Bryan lost to the WWE Champion in which Bryan isn't in the WWE title scenario. Oh nooo....
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,667
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Post by spagett on Dec 4, 2013 5:32:14 GMT -5
Oh no Bryan lost to the WWE Champion in which Bryan isn't in the WWE title scenario. Oh nooo.... What does that mean? Is this sarcasm?
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