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Post by tekkenguy on Dec 31, 2013 18:59:21 GMT -5
With Daniel Bryan seemingly turning heel on monday, did this seem like another desperation move to keep Cena at the top of the mountain? This is the third time in the past two years they had to turn one of their most over babyfaces heel just to protect Cena's position. CM Punk and Ryback had to turn heel just to keep Cena's spot safe.
This is a similar situation with them turning Randy Savage heel just because they wanted to keep Hulk Hogan as the face of the company rather than replace him with Savage. Not to mention, it was likely going to happen with Warrior, but the Sgt. Slaughter angle killed those plans.
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Post by nickcave on Dec 31, 2013 19:00:11 GMT -5
Ryback for sure
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Dec 31, 2013 19:00:18 GMT -5
I'd say Punk or Austin.
Not so much the initial turn, but the amount of desperation for either of them to get heel heat.
We'll see what happens with Bryan when it happens.
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Dec 31, 2013 19:04:20 GMT -5
They basically sacrificed Ryback's overness just so he could keep Cena busy for a couple months.
It doesn't get any worse than that.
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Post by tekkenguy on Dec 31, 2013 19:05:34 GMT -5
Austin was a completely different case. Savage, Punk, Ryback, and Bryan's stars were all on the rise when the turn happened. Austin has been on top for years.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Dec 31, 2013 19:07:47 GMT -5
ryback
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 31, 2013 19:08:51 GMT -5
Is it fair to classify last night's events as Bryan "turning heel" when he hasn't even done even a single thing remotely heelish other than (apparently) submitting himself to the Wyatts?
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Post by Starshine on Dec 31, 2013 19:09:17 GMT -5
I had to go with Punk. Mainly due to how far he had to go just to get a moderate level of negative reactions.
Ryback has a good case too. But he felt more spur of the moment over (and he was over as hell at the time) so it didn't take much for crowds to turn too.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 31, 2013 19:16:22 GMT -5
I think you're totally off on Savage. Hogan was still as over as he ever was and the heel turn was a slow burn that made perfect sense. He had always been a heel, so for him to revert back to the paranoid, possessive psycho was still true to the character. The mega powers saga is the most perfect storyline WWE ever did imo.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 31, 2013 19:41:17 GMT -5
Serious question to the OP (tekkenguy), and please don't take offense, but it seems like you're really going out of your way to play into stereotypical "IWC" beliefs with a lot of the polls you're making. Do you truly believe this angle is an attempt to keep Cena at the top of the mountain? Does anyone?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 31, 2013 19:47:39 GMT -5
Serious question to the OP (tekkenguy), and please don't take offense, but it seems like you're really going out of your way to play into stereotypical "IWC" beliefs with a lot of the polls you're making. Do you truly believe this angle is an attempt to keep Cena at the top of the mountain? Does anyone? Punk turned heel for The Rock because they didn't want Rock to have another face vs face feud. Ryback didn't turn heel to "keep Cena at the top", but you can't deny that they did it to keep him busy and give him a fresh opponent. Since Cena just got out of a face/face feud with The Rock, they weren't going to have him do another one. Whatever f***ery they're doing with Bryan has nothing to do with Cena, since Management is intent on screwing Bryan over, Cena or no Cena.
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Waffel113
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Post by Waffel113 on Dec 31, 2013 19:47:56 GMT -5
I voted Punk because I honestly felt like it was a character assassination. He went from being able to beat anyone in the company clean as a sheet (Cena excepted, though those were some great matches), to needing a crooked ref and a low blow to retain come Hell in a Cell. Plus the commentary team, the visiting legends, Cena himself, hell, everybody and their mother were saying that Punk's historic reign didn't mean a thing unless he could beat Cena, which he did before the turn anyway.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 31, 2013 19:53:26 GMT -5
I'd love to see this poll posted again in about 2 months when we have a feeling on Bryan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 20:00:00 GMT -5
In the case of Macho Man, Hogan vs. Savage was a match that had to happen at some point and in the late 80s-early 90s, Hogan wasn't going to be the heel. So turning Savage was the natural course.
Punk was turned so they could build to Punk vs. Rock at the Rumble.
I didn't see Raw, so I don't know how Bryan's turn was handled.
But Ryback... there was NO logical reason for it to happen when it did. They weren't setting him up for a match where he HAD to be the heel. He wasn't getting negative reactions. That's one case where I'll admit they were trying to protect Cena, just because no other explanation fits.
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Chip
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Post by Chip on Dec 31, 2013 20:03:34 GMT -5
Bryan didn't turn heel.
I don't know enough about Savage's turn to really comment on it.
Punks turn was the right thing to do it was just poorly done. With how long Punk had the belt they needed to do something to majorly shake up the reign so people wouldn't get bored waiting for Rock. A lot of people seemed to be begging for Punk to turn heel even as very few seemed to be fans of a face Punk. It was just a combination of them desperately trying to get him heat and an audience that refused to boo Punk. Had the audience been able to play along maybe his heel turn could have actually gone somewhere, it just didn't make it past the starting line.
Rybacks was by far the worst. It wasn't necessary in the slightest and came after Ryback lost at Mania to Mark Henry so he didn't even have any heat going into it nor did he seem like a credible threat. Ryback was already limping at that point, the heel turn and feud to Cena was basically Ryback being put down live on TV.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Dec 31, 2013 20:39:17 GMT -5
They turned Punk heel because Cena and the Rock were both more popular baby faces than him. Ryback was also working his way up the rankings as one of the top baby faces and was about to pass Punk in popularity. Instead of being the number four baby face, the WWE decided to make him the number one heel. It makes a lot more sense to have the top heel as the champion and fight the Rock than it is to have the number four baby face as the champion and fight the number one baby face. I also feel that if Punk did not turn heel people would have turn on him and started to boo him. He was an awful baby face during the time. He has improved a lot during this run as a baby face.
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Dec 31, 2013 21:03:25 GMT -5
This is a similar situation with them turning Randy Savage heel just because they wanted to keep Hulk Hogan as the face of the company rather than replace him with Savage.
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Dec 31, 2013 21:19:27 GMT -5
Can I really say none of the above? Yes the turns have been stupid, but I don't think they're the result of a conspiracy to keep Cena at the top. Punk was the victim of Rock/Cena main event already being set in stone. Logically, Cena/Punk should've been the match to headline Wrestlemania, but they ended up turning him heel so that they could put the title on Rock.
Ryback's turn is a cautionary tale on why it's stupid the keep the title on the same person so often. That, and although people probably don't like to hear this, CM Punk and The Shield ultimately did more to bury Ryback than Cena ever did. People complain about Bryan never getting one over on the Authority, but Ryback ended up looking like a chump and he never got his payback.
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JTH
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Post by JTH on Dec 31, 2013 21:25:48 GMT -5
Ryback, and it's not close.
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Hawk Hart
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Post by Hawk Hart on Dec 31, 2013 21:28:29 GMT -5
Del Rio this year, it worked well but it really came outta nowhere and seemed like they only did it because he wasn't working as a face.
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