SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 27, 2014 0:56:18 GMT -5
Don't watch anymore. I know you want to, I do too. But if you're as annoyed with this blatant stupidity as I am, then make it noticable by no longer watching. Don't comment on it for the next couple of months. This is about the Daniel Bryan thing by the way. It won't matter, sadly. The structure of WWE's television with Nielsen, and the number of people who just watch it casually as a "show" will trump whatever difference we think we're making. I swallowed a bitter pill tonight in that I finally, begrudgingly accepted that the entire industry as its existed for its entire history has changed, and not for the better. Never again will there be a true synchronization of fans in attendance live and those watching at home. Never again will wild in-arena popularity translate to mega-star pushes and balls out promoting of anyone who WWE has not already decided or hand-picked to to fill those roles. WWE will cater only to the aforementioned TV audience, because they truly believe that they will all plunk down 10 dollars a pop on the network and are using the quarter hours of a flawed and incorrect ratings system to justify how they promote. And this is all without a shred of proof that 95% of said audience has ever spent --or would want to-- a dime on the actual product. WWE may be surprised to find out, as mentioned, that 3/4's of their TV audience watches more out of habit and "something to do", rather than as dedicated, paying consumers. You know, like the people alienated and discarded tonight. All I know is, there has been a groundswell of vocal support in a fanbase that CAN be quantified, and one who they KNOW is paying. But it's being ignored and swept under the rug. We learned tonight what is irrelevant in WWE's marketing strategy and stubborn mindset. They have chosen the formula of short-term gain over the potential of future gain, because they personally can't understand why it even exists, and no one can stop them from doing it, and worse yet, a large number seem satisfied with this totalitarian rule. And I can see certain arguments by some posters here for why a Batista got the nod-- if the number last week wasn't an anomaly and a fluke as it had been from a great many past stars who returned only to see it go nowhere soon after. But it begs the question --what do you do with Bryan? For the first time I can remember in wrestling, there exists a clear division between vocal, real seen people, a casual audience, and WWE themselves. WWE can keep doing what they're doing, and likely will, and casuals will keep flipping onto wrestling once in a while when they see a familiar face (Then as evidenced by last week, tune right out again, not even returning for Batista's beatdown of ADR), and those who are stymied and rejected will potentially wreck everything for everyone when they're shat on for their passion, support and MONEY PAID regardless. And with that latter issue, WWE, a company hell-bent on manufacturing image, now faces the very real threat of everything they hold important RUINED by this same paying, disgruntled audience who are spending their money to FORCE WWE's hand. It's a stalemate. WrestleMania could be a disaster. And whose fault will that really be if it was? So-called "Whiny" fans who only crime is rejecting things that A) they decreed is force-fed, repeated, soulless and ham-fisted? Why should they just accept it? If they're paying money, why can't they push for what they want, even if the perception is that they are not the majority? Or is it the fault of the company for not recognizing this possibility and still delivering a formulaic and infuriating result in spite of it? I lean toward the latter. In history, every "movement", "revolution" or "cause" started with what was considered a small or inconsequential number of people amidst the masses of indifferent, apathetic or naively blinded. And eventually, through tenacity, change came to pass because the noise made and disruption ensued was decreed too troublesome or destructive to ignore forever. It'll be funny to see if this has the same effect or if it simply fizzles out. I personally hope it does continue. After tonight, I find myself selfishly wanting WWE to suffer in the way that hurts them second most to money -- the very real prospect of the the things they hold important destroyed by aggressive protest, and by proxy, their fake "WWE Universe" mindset exposed as a lie. You can only spin that for so long.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 27, 2014 1:04:40 GMT -5
But they can't paint themselves into a corner. If they put him in and he doesn't win it gets crapped over, if they don't put him in it gets crapped over. Like it or not they want to push who they want to push and chances are some research/logic goes into it. If their numbers tell them momentum is with Batista or anyone else - that's what they'll do. if Bryan was in that Rumble yes the live crowd would have loved it but EVERYONE would have got buried and the company understandably didn't go down that road. Bryan's popularity with the live crowd is likely seen as an unwelcome distraction. if people just supported him like they do other guys and cheered him I'd say they may have been likely given him that re-push to the top. But because it spills over into crapping on essentially the rest of the product the odds are they're going to either ignore the crowd or try and slowly kill his heat. No matter how popular Bryan may or may not be I doubt he's considered valuable enough for his sheer presence to continue to distract (via the live crowd) the rest of the product. This is where I think the whole thing lets itself down. If people massively got behind him it would be far better for his prospects than what happens now which is big live-crowd support but also negatively impacting what else is presented on the show. The crowd had an opportunity to show Bryan should be pushed but IMO there's now a very, very good chance they'll do the opposite and try and kill his heat because you cannot have every show overshaddowed and every major angle crapped on like that. Even Hulk Hogan himself, if during the day every big match not to feature him was crapped on -there'd be an issue. They had PLENTY of time to not paint themselves in a corner. Hell, even if you want to argue as much after Summerslam, that's still 6 months to shuffle things around. It's not that hard. In terms of research and all that bullshit...I have to assume that...I don't know...the guys who are big names, were at one time *notsobignames*. I can't assume for one second that Batista was a big name when they decided to give him his push. I can't assume the same for Orton either. Cena probably. But even going back to Hart and Michaels and so forth, I highly HIGHLY doubt they were pulling numbers when it came to if this person was already money. Just because Bryan isn't money now, doesn't mean they can't make him be money. Unless WWE has lost the ability to make stars, and perhaps they actually have. And let's look at the alternative. WWE might be making okay bank, but if you watched the shows, you'd notice that the fans don't seem to really be THAT invested in what they're being given. They're chanting for other things or other people or crapping all over what's going on. Does WWE think that they're going to catch new fans watching a product that their core fans don't agree with? That last little part you mentioned makes it sound like the fans are better off sitting on their hands and not being engaged, or at least being engaged with what WWE tells them to be engaged with. Because lord knows...if the fans stop reacting to Bryan, he'll likely get pushed harder, right?
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Post by BRAINFADE on Jan 27, 2014 1:05:31 GMT -5
Don't watch anymore. I know you want to, I do too. But if you're as annoyed with this blatant stupidity as I am, then make it noticable by no longer watching. Don't comment on it for the next couple of months. This is about the Daniel Bryan thing by the way. It won't matter, sadly. The structure of WWE's television with Nielsen, and the number of people who just watch it casually as a "show" will trump whatever difference we think we're making. I swallowed a bitter pill tonight in that I finally, begrudgingly accepted that the entire industry as its existed for its entire history has changed, and not for the better. Never again will there be a true synchronization of fans in attendance live and those watching at home. Never again will wild in-arena popularity translate to mega-star pushes and balls out promoting of anyone who WWE has not already decided or hand-picked to to fill those roles. WWE will cater only to the aforementioned TV audience, because they truly believe that they will all plunk down 10 dollars a pop on the network and are using the quarter hours of a flawed and incorrect ratings system to justify how they promote. And this is all without a shred of proof that 95% of said audience has ever spent --or would want to-- a dime on the actual product. WWE may be surprised to find out, as mentioned, that 3/4's of their TV audience watches more out of habit and "something to do", rather than as dedicated, paying consumers. You know, like the people alienated and discarded tonight. All I know is, there has been a groundswell of vocal support in a fanbase that CAN be quantified, and one who they KNOW is paying. But it's being ignored and swept under the rug. We learned tonight what is irrelevant in WWE's marketing strategy and stubborn mindset. They have chosen the formula of short-term gain over the potential of future gain, because they personally can't understand why it even exists, and no one can stop them from doing it, and worse yet, a large number seem satisfied with this totalitarian rule. And I can see certain arguments by some posters here for why a Batista got the nod-- if the number last week wasn't an anomaly and a fluke as it had been from a great many past stars who returned only to see it go nowhere soon after. But it begs the question --what do you do with Bryan? For the first time I can remember in wrestling, there exists a clear division between vocal, real seen people, a casual audience, and WWE themselves. WWE can keep doing what they're doing, and likely will, and casuals will keep flipping onto wrestling once in a while when they see a familiar face (Then as evidenced by last week, tune right out again, not even returning for Batista's beatdown of ADR), and those who are stymied and rejected will potentially wreck everything for everyone when they're shat on for their passion, support and MONEY PAID regardless. And with that latter issue, WWE, a company hell-bent on manufacturing image, now faces the very real threat of everything they hold important RUINED by this same paying, disgruntled audience who are spending their money to FORCE WWE's hand. It's a stalemate. WrestleMania could be a disaster. And whose fault will that really be if it was? So-called "Whiny" fans who only crime is rejecting things that A) they decreed is force-fed, repeated, soulless and ham-fisted? Why should they just accept it? If they're paying money, why can't they push for what they want, even if the perception is that they are not the majority? Or is it the fault of the company for not recognizing this possibility and still delivering a formulaic and infuriating result in spite of it? I lean toward the latter. In history, every "movement", "revolution" or "cause" started with what was considered a small or inconsequential number of people amidst the masses of indifferent, apathetic or naively blinded. And eventually, through tenacity, change came to pass because the noise made and disruption ensued was decreed too troublesome or destructive to ignore forever. It'll be funny to see if this has the same effect or if it simply fizzles out. I personally hope it does continue. After tonight, I find myself selfishly wanting WWE to suffer in the way that hurts them second most to money -- the very real prospect of the the things they hold important destroyed by aggressive protest, and by proxy, their fake "WWE Universe" mindset exposed as a lie. You can only spin that for so long. Post of the f***ing night. Bravo.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Jan 27, 2014 1:07:59 GMT -5
Personally I've found the Wyatts/Bryan feud to be one of the most interesting TV angles in recent weeks so I'm glad that went ahead. I presume others felt the same. But his omission from the world title match caused outrage. His omission from the Rumble caused indignation. Is the slogan 'If Daniel Bryan's not in the opening match, world title match and doesn't win the Rumble...we riot' ? Especially since Daniel Bryan chants completely drowned out the Brock Lesnar vs Big Show "match" and I didn't even realize there was a tag title match because all I heard were 'YES' chants. Did you hear the 'boring' chants when Kofi made that jump or when Ziggler came out? Because I didn't hear a peep about Bryan until about entrant 26 or 27. Like I said, they chanted when they felt he was supposed to be there, title match, Rumble match, and the match he was in.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 27, 2014 1:10:34 GMT -5
Can it be nowhere fast? Can we at least have an Ellen Aim nod out, out of all this sad news?
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BR329
King Koopa
Support the WWF
Posts: 11,477
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Post by BR329 on Jan 27, 2014 1:15:46 GMT -5
I'm saying this as a man that has had too much to drink tonight(damn royal rumble drinking game) but that crowd was f***ing awesome. I'm happy they shit all ofve the title match and Bryan not getting in the rumble. For the money they paid for their seats they had every right to boo. I mean I'm pissed about the results but still had a great night with my friends. But good job Pittsburgh!
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,377
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 27, 2014 1:41:58 GMT -5
Part of the problem is, for some reason, they still think it's 1996 and no one has the internet. I'm what you'd call a casual fan, at least now. The last complete show I watched was last year's Rumble, prior to tonihght but I still keep up with what they're up to. I read the Raw results, in about 35 seconds, so I'm casual. I'm on this site everyday. I keep up with what's going on. Know what else? I have disposable income.
I really could order every PPV but I don't, because it's the same old boring shit. Cena, Orton, Batista and in a month at Mania time Triple H will be back. Last time I was watching every Raw and PPV, who was in the main event? Cena, Orton, Batista, Triple H, that was almost ten motherf***ing years ago.
They got huge press off of Punk's shoot, he proved his worth to them, got them all the mainstream press they ever wanted. They started beautifully. He "crashed" their booth at Comic Con. I'm a 25 year long fan, I know what's happening, he's coming back...when?? Two weeks. I didn't even miss him. Didn't give a f*** at all he was back, why? He never f***ing left!!!! The story was he was leaving with the title, well, then f***ing go! I kinda of get the logic of not wanting him to compete in other feds, only if to risk him being injured, but so long as it's not life ending, what's the worst result? You might accidentally create a new star you can poach? At zero cost? There's a company, I forget which one, they spend $0 on market research. They just open up as close as possible to Starbucks. Why? Starbucks spends money on market research, good enough for Starbucks, good enough for them. There you go. They rush everything now. Here's how Rumble ends every year now, returning star wins.*
If I'm in the back tonight, I say to Rey, "Sorry. You're not going out. We'll double your pay-off. Bryan is out as 30." There's a million bullshit ways to get Batista, who won't add one single buy to Mania into the main event. Triple H just says it's "best for business", he wins some dumbass stipulation match, f*** finish at the Chamber. When that buzzer hit, the hard camera showed people standing up, arms 3/4 in the air, ready for Bryan. They trolled the f***ing audience by having Bryan say Triple H didn't want him there. You send Bryan out, your last image is 15,000 people chanting "Yes", not booing. You end it with Bryan winning, the "Universe" is happy.
The crowd took Bryan losing just fine, because the end was clear, he goes on and wins at the end of the night.
*Except when we need to "organically" make Once in a Lifetime happen........again!
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Post by Error on Jan 27, 2014 2:05:22 GMT -5
Felt bad for Cena and Orton who worked their asses off and put on a damn good match, maybe their best ever, only for the crowd to take a steamer on it.
With that said, I have been vocal in the past about some of the more "famous" crowds and hating them but tonight's worked for me. They weren't going on about the announcer or cheering how wonderful they were for their chants, they were reacting to the show and what they thought of it very vocally. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore.
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Post by europeanuppercut on Jan 27, 2014 2:08:55 GMT -5
pittsburgh, you are a legend.
ball is in your court, post-'mania raw crowd in new orleans.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,523
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Post by FinalGwen on Jan 27, 2014 2:10:07 GMT -5
Can it be nowhere fast? Can we at least have an Ellen Aim nod out, out of all this sad news? Well, I don't know where WWE got the bright idea that Batista was cool, so alone and independent (in a pit of danger), but they're depending on him now.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,377
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 27, 2014 2:10:45 GMT -5
Felt bad for Cena and Orton who worked their asses off and put on a damn good match, maybe their best ever, How f***ing awful were the rest?!?!! Glad I didn't pay for those.
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Post by kamero00 on Jan 27, 2014 2:12:21 GMT -5
Felt bad for Cena and Orton who worked their asses off and put on a damn good match, maybe their best ever, only for the crowd to take a steamer on it. With that said, I have been vocal in the past about some of the more "famous" crowds and hating them but tonight's worked for me. They weren't going on about the announcer or cheering how wonderful they were for their chants, they were reacting to the show and what they thought of it very vocally. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore. What was the reactions like for that match? I only caught the RR match it self, and everyone is mainly talking about that
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 2:15:57 GMT -5
Felt bad for Cena and Orton who worked their asses off and put on a damn good match, maybe their best ever, How f***ing awful were the rest?!?!! Glad I didn't pay for those. Bray / Bryan was very, very good, though it went too long. Personally, Orton / Cena was mostly just a series of them hitting every finisher they could think of on each other, but different strokes. Lesnar / Big Show, though... That basically was Lesnar beating Big Show with a chair for five minutes, getting punches and selling it by acting like he'd just been riddled full of bullets, then being thrown around by Big Show for like two minutes before catching him with a surprise F-5 for the win. Then afterward he beat him with a chair for another five minutes only for Big Show afterward to completely no-sell it.
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Post by Error on Jan 27, 2014 2:17:52 GMT -5
Felt bad for Cena and Orton who worked their asses off and put on a damn good match, maybe their best ever, only for the crowd to take a steamer on it. With that said, I have been vocal in the past about some of the more "famous" crowds and hating them but tonight's worked for me. They weren't going on about the announcer or cheering how wonderful they were for their chants, they were reacting to the show and what they thought of it very vocally. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore. What was the reactions like for that match? I only caught the RR match it self, and everyone is mainly talking about that Cena/Orton match? I don't even think Cena was in the ring and there was "Daniel Bryan" "No" and "Boring" chants. The first third of the match was dominated by "Daniel Bryan" chants to the point they had Cole acknowledge that the fans felt Bryan was screwed over and deserved another chance and followed by JBL saying 'He lost in the opening match, don't they know that?" The second third was dominated by "Boring" chants and both Orton and Cena trolling the crowd for it. They'd pose, Orton would lock in a headlock and transition to another one and then smirk and Cena was well Cena. Last third was dominated by "This is awful" and "We want Divas" chants. Then the Wyatt Family hit and the crowd exploded in cheers, followed by "YES" chants.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 27, 2014 2:21:13 GMT -5
I'm saying this as a man that has had too much to drink tonight(damn royal rumble drinking game) but that crowd was f***ing awesome. I'm happy they shit all ofve the title match and Bryan not getting in the rumble. For the money they paid for their seats they had every right to boo. I mean I'm pissed about the results but still had a great night with my friends. But good job Pittsburgh! Agreed. If the fans continually ruin every show, WWE will have to start booking what they want to see eventually. I don't understand the WWE apologists who say people in the arenas should just shut up and like whatever they're given. It's not a free service. People pay a lot of money for those seats.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,377
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 27, 2014 2:25:19 GMT -5
How f***ing awful were the rest?!?!! Glad I didn't pay for those. Bray / Bryan was very, very good, though it went too long. Personally, Orton / Cena was mostly just a series of them hitting every finisher they could think of on each other, but different strokes. Lesnar / Big Show, though... That basically was Lesnar beating Big Show with a chair for five minutes, getting punches and selling it by acting like he'd just been riddled full of bullets, then being thrown around by Big Show for like two minutes before catching him with a surprise F-5 for the win. Then afterward he beat him with a chair for another five minutes only for Big Show afterward to completely no-sell it. Sorry, I meant the rest of Orton vs. Cena, I did pay for the Rumble. Though I thought Bray vs. Bryan was fine and Lesnar vs. Show continued on too long, post match.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jan 27, 2014 2:37:43 GMT -5
The fans in Pittsburg got it right ever single time they shit on the show. Period
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Post by The IWC WORLD Champion on Jan 27, 2014 3:03:07 GMT -5
I didn't see the rumble as I recently moved house and don't have Sky TV or proper internet up yet. But from the sounds of it they were just short of ECW filling the ring with chairs?
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,377
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 27, 2014 3:05:14 GMT -5
I didn't see the rumble as I recently moved house and don't have Sky TV or proper internet up yet. But from the sounds of it they were just short of ECW filling the ring with chairs? Outside of Bryan vs. Wyatt the crowd was the whole show. I wish they did that.
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Post by Error on Jan 27, 2014 3:05:16 GMT -5
I didn't see the rumble as I recently moved house and don't have Sky TV or proper internet up yet. But from the sounds of it they were just short of ECW filling the ring with chairs? Nah, they were crazed but they couldn't muster up the courage to toss a cup, let alone a chair. Then again at $8 I don't know that, that thought would have crossed my mind.
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