Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,000
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Post by Sparkybob on May 5, 2014 22:21:58 GMT -5
I figure Ziggler had to do something backstage to piss people off. I mean even when he wasn't over that much, he was still featured pretty regularly on Raws/Smackdowns in the mid card title programs. So it was obviously they liked him back then but something had to change.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on May 6, 2014 0:55:42 GMT -5
When one of your greatest talents is SELLING, guess what the WWE will value your time in the ring being used for?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,951
Member is Online
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Post by Mozenrath on May 6, 2014 1:04:52 GMT -5
Dolph Ziggler looks a lot better taking offense than he does giving offense. He was born to lose. I like the guy, but as Foley put it when he was in a similar position when he met Colette, who convinced him to assert himself more in the ring. "Sometimes, you need to be selfish in the ring.", after he had been in a dead end due to being basically too good at making the other guy look good, to the point where it minimized how obvious his contribution was to the match. Between that and Dolph's admitted temper, it sometimes is a hard rap to overcome. That said, Dolph isn't really in a bad place. He's actually getting on TV fairly consistently, and even getting some mic time. There are far worse gigs.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 6, 2014 1:08:36 GMT -5
He comes across, at least on TV and twitter, as an annoying douche. If that is how he acts backstage, and I don't know this for a fact, I can see how this would piss some people off. Especially with the rumour is true of him being told to slow down his work and him just ignoring it, he deserves it. You need to listen to your boss if you want to succeed; he's doing it to himself.
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Post by Clawley Race on May 6, 2014 2:02:08 GMT -5
he is too good and cares too much,
honestly, he is about 20 years too late because he cannot better his position with another company.
For those wondering about how over he was for, basically no reason from the machine: watch the raw after WM...if he wasn't over that night Jericho has always been a mid carder at best for crowd reactions...maybe HBK too...
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 6, 2014 2:27:38 GMT -5
He comes across, at least on TV and twitter, as an annoying douche. If that is how he acts backstage, and I don't know this for a fact, I can see how this would piss some people off. Especially with the rumour is true of him being told to slow down his work and him just ignoring it, he deserves it. You need to listen to your boss if you want to succeed; he's doing it to himself. Most people in wrestling who have succeeded the most have done the opposite of what the boss wants, did what they knew was best for them, and excelled in spite of it. It's the people who are obedient and unnecessarily accommodating that have often been f***ed over the most in this strange, contrary business. TLDR version; It pays in wrestling in the long run to do what you want. Especially in a business ran by an alpha male who actually respects conflict over subservience.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on May 6, 2014 3:48:17 GMT -5
The guy has been on WWE prime television and PPVs in prominent matches and stories for years. In what universe is he doing anything wrong?
Oh, you mean he wasn't WWE champion. So f***in' what?
Anway, yeah he's really good at making other people look even better. In the grand scheme of things I'd rather have his long lasting role in a wrestling company than a flash in the pan champ such The Miz.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 4:10:32 GMT -5
The guy has been on WWE prime television and PPVs in prominent matches and stories for years. In what universe is he doing anything wrong? Oh, you mean he wasn't WWE champion. So f***in' what? Anway, yeah he's really good at making other people look even better. In the grand scheme of things I'd rather have his long lasting role in a wrestling company than a flash in the pan champ such The Miz. That was a year ago.
Now he barely ever appears on RAW and is almost never on PPV anymore, let alone becoming WWE Champion. And when he does appear on RAW/PPV, he barely does anything.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on May 6, 2014 4:12:31 GMT -5
The guy has been on WWE prime television and PPVs in prominent matches and stories for years. In what universe is he doing anything wrong? Oh, you mean he wasn't WWE champion. So f***in' what? Anway, yeah he's really good at making other people look even better. In the grand scheme of things I'd rather have his long lasting role in a wrestling company than a flash in the pan champ such The Miz. That was a year ago.
Now he barely ever appears on RAW and is almost never on PPV anymore, let alone becoming WWE Champion. And when he does appear on RAW/PPV, he barely does anything.
One thing I noticed at the Izod on Sunday was that crowd still loves the guy. I saw as many people in Ziggler shirts than anyone else's, including Cena, Bryan and Punk.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on May 6, 2014 4:14:56 GMT -5
The guy has been on WWE prime television and PPVs in prominent matches and stories for years. In what universe is he doing anything wrong? Oh, you mean he wasn't WWE champion. So f***in' what? Anway, yeah he's really good at making other people look even better. In the grand scheme of things I'd rather have his long lasting role in a wrestling company than a flash in the pan champ such The Miz. That was a year ago.
Now he barely ever appears on RAW and is almost never on PPV anymore, let alone becoming WWE Champion. And when he does appear on RAW/PPV, he barely does anything.
I haven't noticed a lack of Ziggler on RAW in the last year. He was a big part of the battle royal last night, and he's had some great matches with Sandow. And he did the thing with Hugh Jackman last week. Dolph is around as they need him. He's not going anywhere.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on May 6, 2014 4:21:06 GMT -5
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Post by berlynwright on May 6, 2014 6:12:38 GMT -5
he can't keep his mouth and hands shut
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Post by TheSchattenjager on May 6, 2014 6:13:41 GMT -5
What's this talk about Ziggler not having the look? Dude looks like a male model.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 6, 2014 6:20:32 GMT -5
He comes across, at least on TV and twitter, as an annoying douche. If that is how he acts backstage, and I don't know this for a fact, I can see how this would piss some people off. Especially with the rumour is true of him being told to slow down his work and him just ignoring it, he deserves it. You need to listen to your boss if you want to succeed; he's doing it to himself. Most people in wrestling who have succeeded the most have done the opposite of what the boss wants, did what they knew was best for them, and excelled in spite of it. It's the people who are obedient and unnecessarily accommodating that have often been f***ed over the most in this strange, contrary business. TLDR version; It pays in wrestling in the long run to do what you want. Especially in a business ran by an alpha male who actually respects conflict over subservience. It often doesn't pay to do what you want, because in the end it really depends on who the boss wants to succeed. Austin, Punk, Rock are some great examples of people who excelled when doing more of what they wanted to, while there's heaps of examples of the opposite: Zack Ryder being the perfect example of someone who did his own thing, got over, and was promptly destroyed for it. All of that happened because he's not a guy Vince/HHH wants on top. They have the power to decide. Standing out and standing up for what you want to be isn't always a bad thing, but i'd say most of the time it's doomed to fail.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 6, 2014 6:27:41 GMT -5
Most people in wrestling who have succeeded the most have done the opposite of what the boss wants, did what they knew was best for them, and excelled in spite of it. It's the people who are obedient and unnecessarily accommodating that have often been f***ed over the most in this strange, contrary business. TLDR version; It pays in wrestling in the long run to do what you want. Especially in a business ran by an alpha male who actually respects conflict over subservience. It often doesn't pay to do what you want, because in the end it really depends on who the boss wants to succeed. Austin, Punk, Rock are some great examples of people who excelled when doing more of what they wanted to, while there's heaps of examples of the opposite: Zack Ryder being the perfect example of someone who did his own thing, got over, and was promptly destroyed for it. All of that happened because he's not a guy Vince/HHH wants on top. They have the power to decide. Standing out and standing up for what you want to be isn't always a bad thing, but i'd say most of the time it's doomed to fail. I bet you anything, in Vince's eyes, he probably looked at Dolph more as an Internet whiner, and thus it meant nothing, instead of Dolph pulling a Punk and genuinely telling Vince what he's doing sucks. Hell, Carlito of all people told Vince how much he hated everything for years, and Vince still bent over backwards to keep him --and Carlito didn't even really give a f***. Same with ADR. He's been threatening to leave WWE for two years, and he keeps getting pushed. Vince is a strange guy. Austin pretty much corroborated it on his podcast. Vince loves it when dudes show passion and even tell him off. He respects it. He however would think Tweeting about it is a pussy move most likely. The guy has been on WWE prime television and PPVs in prominent matches and stories for years. In what universe is he doing anything wrong? Oh, you mean he wasn't WWE champion. So f***in' what? Him getting eliminated by the f***ing cobra wasn't exactly a career highlight. And the crowd rightly shit on it. That said, I feel for the guy. There's paycheck guys in wrestling, then there's guys who genuinely want to be on top, and try to bust their ass to make it happen -- only for stupid corporate or political prejudices or preferences to prevent them from achieving a position they not only earned, but the fans want them to be in. There's no reason why Dolph couldn't at least be in a ADR position. Considering the actual ADR has never ever been over, and is only pushed ad-nauseam because WWE desperately wants a Latin star for that demo -- only one who's Randy Orton tall.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 6, 2014 6:29:53 GMT -5
Let's be honest here: none of us will ever understand what goes on in the mind of Vince McMahon.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on May 6, 2014 6:32:25 GMT -5
I think Bryan Alverez said before on his radio show that Ziggler was told to slow down in the ring, tell more of a story and make the high-spots count and he ignored that and would go out there and be even faster in the ring than he was before. If this is true it's his own fault.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 6, 2014 6:58:54 GMT -5
I think Bryan Alverez said before on his radio show that Ziggler was told to slow down in the ring, tell more of a story and make the high-spots count and he ignored that and would go out there and be even faster in the ring than he was before. If this is true it's his own fault. He needs to slow down and tell the story of him being pinned in two minutes much better. Hammer home that psychology that he's where he is forever.
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beamanhogan
Team Rocket
RIP - Macho for Hall of Fame
Posts: 867
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Post by beamanhogan on May 6, 2014 7:05:48 GMT -5
When one of your greatest talents is SELLING, guess what the WWE will value your time in the ring being used for? Jeff Hardy's best ability used to be his selling. He became champ.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on May 6, 2014 8:43:12 GMT -5
I don't understand the argument that Ziggler is "too good" at selling being what keeps him down. Like that's his skill, so build your booking around it? If he's a face, have him get his ass kicked to build huge sympathy for him (which is crazy because in the Ziggler/Del Rio match they ACTUALLY DID THIS so it's not like WWE doesn't know it can be done) if he's a heel build up to him getting a richly-deserved ass kicking. His selling can't have that much to do with it compared to him not adhering to the labyrinthian code of wrestling etiquette.
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