Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on May 6, 2014 9:23:52 GMT -5
Vince is a strange guy. Austin pretty much corroborated it on his podcast. Vince loves it when dudes show passion and even tell him off. He respects it. He however would think Tweeting about it is a pussy move most likely. That's what I think is the source of it all. Ziggler's response to it all was to complain about it online. And that's not really standing up for yourself, it's being passive aggressive.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on May 6, 2014 9:26:56 GMT -5
When one of your greatest talents is SELLING, guess what the WWE will value your time in the ring being used for? Jeff Hardy's best ability used to be his selling. He became champ. People popped for his moves and Hardy was also, apparently well liked backstage. We complain about politics all the time, but actually being able to have our peers vouch for us is kinda important for moving up the ladder.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 6, 2014 9:31:05 GMT -5
I think while there are other factors, Ziggler is just a victim of guys like Bryan, The Shield, Cesaro, and the Wyatts getting over (maybe add Barrett in there as well. He's always been somewhat over but he's been getting insane support as BNB). For the longest time new guys really weren't getting over when on tv but WWE could always rely on guys like Dolph and Kofi to come in and reignite dead crowds.
I don't think it really matters how much Dolph has pissed people off or who he's pissed off but again I just listed 9 guys that have good momentum going and getting pushes. With Dolph being a face he just lost his place.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on May 6, 2014 10:03:49 GMT -5
Most people in wrestling who have succeeded the most have done the opposite of what the boss wants, did what they knew was best for them, and excelled in spite of it. It's the people who are obedient and unnecessarily accommodating that have often been f***ed over the most in this strange, contrary business. TLDR version; It pays in wrestling in the long run to do what you want. Especially in a business ran by an alpha male who actually respects conflict over subservience. This... isn't true. I don't think there's any evidence that in the WWE, refusing to do what your boss tells you to do is a savvy career choice. Everyone currently successful in the WWE has their position because they were chosen from on high, and the company has proven with most of them that they're willing to stick with them through crappy gimmicks or storylines.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on May 6, 2014 10:11:53 GMT -5
He didn't grow very tall, and then the audience didn't flip their shit and revolt every time he wasn't in the main event. This sums is up. He may get good reactions but only when he is on screen. Nobody is constantly chanting for Ziggler during every other match like the did Bryan. WWE are willing to listen to people but people need to care more for them to notice.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on May 6, 2014 10:15:35 GMT -5
He didn't grow very tall, and then the audience didn't flip their shit and revolt every time he wasn't in the main event. This sums is up. He may get good reactions but only when he is on screen. Nobody is constantly chanting for Ziggler during every other match like the did Bryan. WWE are willing to listen to people but people need to care more for them to notice. That is... kind of an unbelievably high standard to set though, isn't it?
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on May 6, 2014 10:22:33 GMT -5
This sums is up. He may get good reactions but only when he is on screen. Nobody is constantly chanting for Ziggler during every other match like the did Bryan. WWE are willing to listen to people but people need to care more for them to notice. That is... kind of an unbelievably high standard to set though, isn't it? It may be a high standard but thats what happens when WWE sees people react a certain way. They are trying to do that with the Shield to some extent with Raw ending again with them being beat down. Its like Wwe doesn't waste their time with anyone unless someone always gets a reaction either booed or cheered like Cena. Ziggler gets put on TV regularly because he gets good reactions but it's probably not enough for WWE, they want something like Bryan and the Fandangoing craze from last year that lasted only 24 hours.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on May 6, 2014 10:29:46 GMT -5
That is... kind of an unbelievably high standard to set though, isn't it? It may be a high standard but thats what happens when WWE sees people react a certain way. They are trying to do that with the Shield to some extent with Raw ending again with them being beat down. Its like Wwe doesn't waste their time with anyone unless someone always gets a reaction either booed or cheered like Cena. Ziggler gets put on TV regularly because he gets good reactions but it's probably not enough for WWE, they want something like Bryan and the Fandangoing craze from last year that lasted only 24 hours. It's not going to happen. What makes Bryan so unique, what makes his tale so interesting, is that his connection with the crowd is so sincere. Look at Punk now - unless they're in Chicago, his name has devolved into a chant to fill time. When Bryan was temporarily let go in 2010, his chant had real fire behind it. I think a PPV closed with his name being chanted. That's a whole other level of popularity, even back then. If they honestly expect a midcarder like Dolph to be that over, they're deluded. Thankfully, I don't think they expect it. It should be more than enough that he's over when he shows up. Less than half of the roster is consistently over at this point.
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Post by ________ has left the building on May 6, 2014 10:37:34 GMT -5
It could be worst. He could have the careers that the rest of the Spirit Squad have. Or even worst, losing via extreme teabagging to Mojo Rawley.
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Post by The Legend of Groose on May 6, 2014 10:40:33 GMT -5
He's someone they gave the main event spot and I don't think he was a main event player at the time. He's below average on the mic and the best thing he can do is sell bumps. He's perfect for trying to get someone over and making someone else look like a million bucks. Pretty much he had his time in the sun and could not take advantage of it.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 6, 2014 15:03:12 GMT -5
He's someone they gave the main event spot and I don't think he was a main event player at the time. He's below average on the mic and the best thing he can do is sell bumps. He's perfect for trying to get someone over and making someone else look like a million bucks. Pretty much he had his time in the sun and could not take advantage of it. That is true, but why not use him to sell bumps for higher profile wrestlers, or making big name guys look good. Ziggler vs. Lesnar seems like it would be fun to watch.
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Post by g1megatronfan on May 6, 2014 15:23:57 GMT -5
I don't know. It's a shame too but as each year passes it seems like they're doing less with him. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him in TNA sooner than later.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 15:35:25 GMT -5
I think Bryan Alverez said before on his radio show that Ziggler was told to slow down in the ring, tell more of a story and make the high-spots count and he ignored that and would go out there and be even faster in the ring than he was before. If this is true it's his own fault. I remember that... I think Dave Meltzer speculated that it could be the case that he's got some people telling him to slow down while he's got other people saying "Nah, **** them. You do you because while that may not be what Vince likes it's Vince respects." And he's indeed stuck in a no-win situation. If he goes too slow some people will talk shit about how he's dogging it in the ring and isn't like how he used to be. If he goes too fast other people will talk shit about how he's not listening to anybody and thinks his own shit don't stink. He'd be getting screwed over either way behind the scenes so...eh.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 15:58:35 GMT -5
Its over for him. I mean, maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but usually when a guy's career stalls like this - that's it. At this point he's better off trying to get famous in some non-wrestling way so WWE will see him as an asset again.
The only other way to recover would have been to start clean in another promotion, get popular there, then come back to WWE, but that's not really an option right now.
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Post by King Bebe on May 6, 2014 16:03:20 GMT -5
Supposedly he's a bit of a loud mouth in real life.
I like Ziggler but I think he needs something more. His face run isn't cutting it.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 6, 2014 16:04:12 GMT -5
He's either a douche in real life, or a pushover.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on May 6, 2014 16:36:01 GMT -5
The only other way to recover would have been to start clean in another promotion, get popular there, then come back to WWE Even then it's kind of shaky. Guys like Christian and Chris Masters did that and still found themselves spinning on their wheels when they returned.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 6, 2014 21:48:57 GMT -5
Most people in wrestling who have succeeded the most have done the opposite of what the boss wants, did what they knew was best for them, and excelled in spite of it. It's the people who are obedient and unnecessarily accommodating that have often been f***ed over the most in this strange, contrary business. TLDR version; It pays in wrestling in the long run to do what you want. Especially in a business ran by an alpha male who actually respects conflict over subservience. This... isn't true. I don't think there's any evidence that in the WWE, refusing to do what your boss tells you to do is a savvy career choice. Everyone currently successful in the WWE has their position because they were chosen from on high, and the company has proven with most of them that they're willing to stick with them through crappy gimmicks or storylines. CM Punk did what he wanted all the time. Lesnar did what we wanted in those times he felt like it. Randy Orton is always breaking rules. Batista just flat out decided to not wrestle Bryan at Payback, the original plan. There's four right there. And this not even counting the tons of guys throughout WWE's history that refused to do what they were told or spoke up about stupidity. People ranging from Piper to Ventura to Warrior to Hogan to HBK to Austin to HHH, to Jericho to RVD to Goldberg to even Eddie Guerrero.
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Post by -Lithium- on May 8, 2014 1:37:49 GMT -5
He probably violated some stupid bull**** WWE backstage etiquette. "ZOMG CHU DIDNT DRINK SODA IN DA SODA DRINKING PLACE AT 9:47 ON A TUESDAY CHU DISRESPECT LOCKAROOM NUCEALR HAET!!11!". God, I hate that s***.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 2:19:43 GMT -5
I love Dolph. Always have.
But sometimes I think he'd be better off if he avoided media/social media for a while.
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