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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 28, 2014 16:47:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 16:48:09 GMT -5
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Post by Cela on Oct 28, 2014 16:48:31 GMT -5
Prepare the white guilt!
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 28, 2014 16:56:17 GMT -5
Eh, checked for Panther in the titles itself, didn't see the other thread.
D'ah well, T'challa can have two.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 28, 2014 17:09:22 GMT -5
D'ah well, T'challa can have two. is that the white guilt you spoke of? |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 28, 2014 17:21:40 GMT -5
Nope, I love the Panther and always have. No guilt here.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dat Dude on Oct 28, 2014 17:39:33 GMT -5
I really hope they use Christopher Priest's version of BP as a reference instead of Reggie Hudlin's.
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Post by Talent Name on Oct 28, 2014 17:44:11 GMT -5
He does have an interesting Rogues gallery as well this is another one I am looking for. The actor was pretty damn good as Jackie. What sucks is because of Fox owning X-Men we can't have storm
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Oct 28, 2014 18:03:36 GMT -5
And there had better be plenty of it. |
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Post by The Tank on Oct 28, 2014 18:06:58 GMT -5
He does have an interesting Rogues gallery as well this is another one I am looking for. The actor was pretty damn good as Jackie. What sucks is because of Fox owning X-Men we can't have storm ...I have never been happier that Fox has the movie rights to X-Men. That relationship was garbage. Sudden idiotic retconned "characterization" which literally only happened because Storm is black. |
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Legion
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Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Oct 28, 2014 18:23:29 GMT -5
Not the biggest fan of Black Panther, mainly because for any other character to have the characterisation he does, they would be called a Mary Sue, but some how he gets away with it and never seems to get called on it without the topic becoming a race flame bait thread.
Black Panther is a decent character, but has far too much going on for him. He's royalty, runs his own country, has Batman's planning ability, is also a super martial artist, can do magic, is a super genius at everything from physics to engineering to theoretical stuff, has no super powers, has the whole 'ghost ancestors' thing going on and equally, will have the issue that two of the more interesting things about him (his feuds with Namor and Doom and his relationship with Reed Richards (and possible;e a third thing re. Storm)) can't even be used.
He's a character that will need work to work on screen, because he already doesnt work that well in the books because of this clutter of trying to be 'all thing to all people' in order to be 'that character' for Marvel to hold up and say that he is their flagpole black character, and because he hisotorically was that, he has far too much going on.
Streamlining is the way to go here. Make him Prince rather than King right away, show him as fallible like all the other characters and yes, show that Wakanda can actually be a dick state. Leave Shuri out of it, and for the love of god dont use Man-Ape as a villain.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 19:30:20 GMT -5
Okay, one final time and this is the last I'm gonna talk about it, because the hate BP gets is a part of a pattern I see a lot in comic fandom and not just about Black Panther.
Y'all think maybe the reasons that whenever people talk trash about BP it becomes racially charged because it seems to quite a few people that the impossible things he does only become a problem when he does them? I mean, it's clearly a part of a pattern and even the late Dwayne McDuffie mentions BP always getting flack for doing the admittedly absurd things other superheroes like him (ones with no superpowers) do all the time.
He's the king of his own awesome nation with sci-fi technology and he's got awesome skills at a ton of other stuff.
So what if he is Mr. Awesome?
How often do you see people talk about how Batman shouldn't have a bajillion dollars in the bank to play with or that he shouldn't be as skilled or smart as he is? In fact, Batman is a lot of people's favorite comic book character and he's got tons of movies. The praises for Batman being a one-man crime-fighting team vastly outweigh the complaints about it from what I've always seen.
But I've always seen this constant complaint from Comic Fandom that BP is just "too good."
I mean, y'all have to understand people don't attribute it being a racial thing to you just because they want to one-up you in some imaginary game or piss you off; to even say it is opens you up to a whole lot of hatred people like to avoid.
It's because that's precisely what it looks like to a nice chunk of fans who read the same comics as you do.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Oct 28, 2014 19:59:11 GMT -5
Okay, one final time and this is the last I'm gonna talk about it, because the hate BP gets is a part of a pattern I see a lot in comic fandom and not just about Black Panther. Y'all think maybe the reasons that whenever people talk trash about BP it becomes racially charged because it seems to quite a few people that the impossible things he does only become a problem when he does them? I mean, it's clearly a part of a pattern and even the late Dwayne McDuffie mentions BP always getting flack for doing the admittedly absurd things other superheroes like him (ones with no superpowers) do all the time. He's the king of his own awesome nation with sci-fi technology and he's got awesome skills at a ton of other stuff. So what if he is Mr. Awesome? I've never seen people constantly talk about how Batman shouldn't have a bajillion dollars in the bank to play with or that he shouldn't be as skilled or smart as he is. In fact, Batman is a lot of people's favorite comic book character and he's got tons of movies. The praises for Batman being a one-man crime-fighting team vastly outweigh the complaints about it from what I've always seen. But I've always seen this constant complaint from Comic Fandom that BP is just "too good." I mean, y'all have to understand people don't attribute it being a racial thing to you just because they want to one-up you in some imaginary game or piss you off; to even say it is opens you up to a whole lot of hatred people like to avoid. It's because that's precisely what it looks like to a nice chunk of fans who read the same comics as you do. But for me, as I tried to say, that is the problem. Why can there not be a debate about why BP has too much going on for him without it becoming someone calling someone else racist? Why is it not on to call out the fact that BP have too much going on, and very little in the way of the usual 'Marvel tragic' stuff that makes their characters so approachable and identifiable? Batman's 'planning ability' stuff has been taken too far, but I'm not a DC guy, so I can't really offer a conversation point there, but if we take BP and stack him against say...Iron Man, he could do everything IM does, and then has a whole bunch more on top, same with Cap, with Reed, with most of Marvel's big guns. I can see why his fans think that is great, and I can see the socio-political reasoning behind having a strong black character, I just think that one of the big reasons the character has never been huge and never really sustained an ongoing the way you'd expect him too is likely because of this messy ball of him having too much going on and not really much of a challenge or any real tragedy or loss that hallmarks most of Marvel's big guys. With the character about to get this huge push, now is likely a good time to try and streamline him a bit and stop trying to make him a once size fits all character |
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 28, 2014 20:47:28 GMT -5
My only problem with BP was how Hudlin did him. I actually think being a ruler of a powerful kingdom is great, it offers a lot of interesting story-telling possibilities as he has to juggle his loyalty to his people vs. his loyalty to the team, sometimes creating tension in the process. And when he acts on behalf of the Avengers, he's put his own people at risk. There're a lot of story-telling possibilities there. Granted, it'd be better if Marvel had Namor (do they have Namor? Or does Fox? I don't even know anymore) just do the Atlantis-Wakanda feud.
As far as being a super-genius goes, I don't really mind it for two reasons. First, his powers give him the knowledge of eveyr Black Panther before. That's why he's good at everything, he has centuries of memories to build off of. It certainly is better reasoning to me than, say, Batman, who has about 200 years of college degrees while still finding the time to master all martial arts because money. Secondly, that describes about a huge chunk of the Avengers, and superheroes in general. It's not really a special feat among heroes, and all of the Marvel super-geniuses tend to fall into their own niche as specializations go. We have a thousand characters with super strength or who are master tacticians, so I don't see why super genius needs to be that protected.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Oct 28, 2014 20:48:26 GMT -5
Okay, one final time and this is the last I'm gonna talk about it, because the hate BP gets is a part of a pattern I see a lot in comic fandom and not just about Black Panther. Y'all think maybe the reasons that whenever people talk trash about BP it becomes racially charged because it seems to quite a few people that the impossible things he does only become a problem when he does them? I mean, it's clearly a part of a pattern and even the late Dwayne McDuffie mentions BP always getting flack for doing the admittedly absurd things other superheroes like him (ones with no superpowers) do all the time. He's the king of his own awesome nation with sci-fi technology and he's got awesome skills at a ton of other stuff. So what if he is Mr. Awesome? How often do you see people talk about how Batman shouldn't have a bajillion dollars in the bank to play with or that he shouldn't be as skilled or smart as he is? In fact, Batman is a lot of people's favorite comic book character and he's got tons of movies. The praises for Batman being a one-man crime-fighting team vastly outweigh the complaints about it from what I've always seen. But I've always seen this constant complaint from Comic Fandom that BP is just "too good." I mean, y'all have to understand people don't attribute it being a racial thing to you just because they want to one-up you in some imaginary game or piss you off; to even say it is opens you up to a whole lot of hatred people like to avoid. It's because that's precisely what it looks like to a nice chunk of fans who read the same comics as you do. My feelings are the inverse. BP is fine (outside of Hudlin) and Batman is too much. I like Bats for the rogues way more than Bruce,I don't even see him as a hero. |
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Post by Raskovnik on Oct 28, 2014 20:50:57 GMT -5
I don't like Batman much either.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Oct 28, 2014 21:07:13 GMT -5
I think BP is great....outside of withholding cures for humanity's major diseases because....reasons.....?
Come on, not even Doctor Doom is that big of a dick....
But that's like the only thing I have against him.
He's one of my more favorite Marvel heroes, otherwise.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Oct 28, 2014 21:23:41 GMT -5
Granted, it'd be better if Marvel had Namor (do they have Namor? Or does Fox? I don't even know anymore) just do the Atlantis-Wakanda feud. I think Universal has Namor...? |
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 28, 2014 21:25:27 GMT -5
Granted, it'd be better if Marvel had Namor (do they have Namor? Or does Fox? I don't even know anymore) just do the Atlantis-Wakanda feud. I think Universal has Namor...? Did they get it in a package deal with Howard the Duck or something? |
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Oct 28, 2014 21:28:04 GMT -5
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