Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Dec 31, 2014 20:34:21 GMT -5
I don't like Reigns but if they can build him up as a monster surely monster vs monster has more appeal than what'll feel like a reboot of last year?
To win the title at 2 mania's in a row is overness that's surely above anyone's pay-grade on the current roster? Bryan should be involved in the title scene at some point this year. But I don't see how the inevitableness of Reign's title reign is less appealing than the 'make up for last year' inevitableness.
You can't recapture that moment and not really sure they should try without waiting a year or so longer.
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paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
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Post by paywindah on Dec 31, 2014 20:34:44 GMT -5
I really don't think they have to worry about the crowds hijacking shows this year. DB got his Mania moment. What, are we going to do this every year when he's not in the main event? The crowds will cheer for him, but I don't see it causing plans to change.
Reigns is not Batista. He'll get a lot of support. I'd be happy to finally see the Bryan/Sheamus Mania match someone alluded to earlier in the thread. If you want to give Bryan a title reign, do it later in the year when he can headline PPVs during a normally "slow" period. A Bryan chase for the title would help them keep Network subs in the months after Mania.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2014 20:36:03 GMT -5
The live event attendance would have you believe Cena is hated. The reality is he is their biggest numbers mover since Austin. Maybe live event reaction isn't the whole story? Maybe? Nope The live attendance would have you believe that people are paying to boo Cena at live events. If 50% of paying audience loves to hate a guy and will spend money to express it, he's good for business. What should be suffocating is WWE's stubbornness. They ignored the fans last year, and it took a virtual fan mutiny to change their minds. That's what should frustrate, not the "I was saying boo-urns" mentality.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2014 20:38:21 GMT -5
I don't like Reigns but if they can build him up as a monster surely monster vs monster has more appeal than what'll feel like a reboot of last year? To win the title at 2 mania's in a row is overness that's surely above anyone's pay-grade on the current roster? Bryan should be involved in the title scene at some point this year. But I don't see how the inevitableness of Reign's title reign is less appealing than the 'make up for last year' inevitableness. You can't recapture that moment and not really sure they should try without waiting a year or so longer. Reigns vs Lesnar isn't a good monster vs monster storyline, because Reigns isn't really big enough physically to be considered one. He's physically impressive, but isn't the giant he needs to be to pull off that role. Bryan is small and has the underdog factor. It makes for a perfect storyline. Reigns would benefit from another year of development. His mic work in particular is still piss poor. He'd be eaten alive by Heyman.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 20:41:08 GMT -5
I don't like Reigns but if they can build him up as a monster surely monster vs monster has more appeal than what'll feel like a reboot of last year? To win the title at 2 mania's in a row is overness that's surely above anyone's pay-grade on the current roster? Bryan should be involved in the title scene at some point this year. But I don't see how the inevitableness of Reign's title reign is less appealing than the 'make up for last year' inevitableness. You can't recapture that moment and not really sure they should try without waiting a year or so longer. IF Roman is getting better reactions than Bryan, by all means, let him have the main event. If Bryan is getting the bigger reactions, however, and re-takes his place as a top merch seller, there is absolutely no reason why Bryan shouldn't get the spot. Personally, I got no interest in Bryan vs. the Authority 2.0. Seems pretty lame to me. That being said, it don't matter if the story is a rehash if it's still a story that people want to see. People aren't even close to being tired of Bryan. As shown on Raw, live crowds love him just as much as they always have. To ignore the guy that people want most in favor of Roman just because they've been planning it for a while is ridiculous. It's gonna do way more harm than it's gonna do good. It's gonna piss fans off and put Roman in an unfair position. No point trying to rush the Reigns push and risk hurting his potential drawing power by making him the 2015 Batista.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:41:45 GMT -5
I don't like Reigns but if they can build him up as a monster surely monster vs monster has more appeal than what'll feel like a reboot of last year? To win the title at 2 mania's in a row is overness that's surely above anyone's pay-grade on the current roster? Bryan should be involved in the title scene at some point this year. But I don't see how the inevitableness of Reign's title reign is less appealing than the 'make up for last year' inevitableness. You can't recapture that moment and not really sure they should try without waiting a year or so longer. Do you honestly think it's fair to the boys of the Shield that while they're champion, fans will be waiting for Bryan to get his belt rightfully back? Fact is, that's exactly what'll happen. Most of us here support the Shield boys being champion but until Bryan gets his belt back and until he gets a rightful reign, their reigns won't be as amazing as they could be. We're all thinking "ok well let's see how long this lasts until Bryan gets his time again" and it shouldn't be that way. The reality is that Reigns is not ready. We can see it, Austin can see it, JR can see it, Meltzer can see it, backstage people can see it given what some dirtsheets are saying, fans are picking up on it I mean we can see it. It makes no sense to give the belt to a guy who's not ready let alone when a guy who's just returned from a career ending injury needs to get his rightful reign out of the way. It should be common and business sense to let Bryan get his while Reigns and the rest of the Shield continues to do their thing and then when the time comes let them have a go at it. Beyond that Bryan's still the most over guy on the roster and Reigns cheers aren't even that loud hell we're hearing people boo in his matches and turn away from him. Let the boy develop so when the time is right then do it. Until then it's not fair to any of these guys just simply so Reigns can get his "WM moment oh yeah" I mean it's ludicrous. It's like giving the Rock the title during his blue chipper days or giving Austin the belt during the Ringmaster era. That makes no sense from any standpoint.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Dec 31, 2014 20:42:42 GMT -5
Logically if Lesnar is going to destroy Cena the narrative of 'meeting his match' at Mania is the most logical as opposed to an 'underdog' match?
"You've bullied at lot of people, Brock. Try bullying me" - only said with less charisma
....surely that's the logical progression/conclusion Lesnar's involvement with the company rather than an 'against all odds' opponent?
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Post by molson5 on Dec 31, 2014 20:44:05 GMT -5
What, are we going to do this every year when he's not in the main event? As long as they keep teasing he WON'T be in the main event, they may be able to use this formula out a few more times. Not that it's totally intentional. I do think the HHH "B+ player" trolling was 100% designed to get Bryan more over, but the reluctance to put him in the main event is not, I believe Meltzer on that. Still, I think it does have that effect. If they immediately started teasing Bryan and Lesnar and everyone knows Lesnar's leaving and that result is known 4 months in advance, it'd be a little flat. If they get there a little later, it might be more fun. The other thing to think about is his health. I'm sure the'd like to see him work a full-time schedule for a while before building the whole company around him again. A Lesnar/Bryan Mania match could be a all-time classic, but would it put Bryan right back on the shelf?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:44:31 GMT -5
I don't like Reigns but if they can build him up as a monster surely monster vs monster has more appeal than what'll feel like a reboot of last year? To win the title at 2 mania's in a row is overness that's surely above anyone's pay-grade on the current roster? Bryan should be involved in the title scene at some point this year. But I don't see how the inevitableness of Reign's title reign is less appealing than the 'make up for last year' inevitableness. You can't recapture that moment and not really sure they should try without waiting a year or so longer. It might have appeal, if not for the fact there is no chance the match or the storyline will be any good. Lesnar can talk reasonably okay but rarely does so, Reigns can't talk period, and Heyman can't sell a storyline singlehandedly. Even if he could, what's the story? Just, "I won the Rumble, I want the belt." So what? Anyone can do that, why should we support Reigns for it? What makes that WrestleMania worthy when people (normally) get title shots every month? Then there's the match itself. Reigns is not good in the ring. He just is not. He's green, he looks aimless any time he's not punching someone or spearing someone - even against a friend and former tag partner of his who can have a good match with anyone, he was stinking up the joint bad enough on Raw that the crowd went from being hot for him to being completely disinterested in no time. And Lesnar doesn't seem to be anything special these days either if I'm being honest, because of nine matches since coming back, 33% of them have been good and 66% of those have relied mainly on novelty. Bryan though... Lesnar's always worked better with smaller guys. That was part of what made the Punk match work as well as it did, the fact that they told the story of the smaller, completely outmatched guy trying his damnedest to chop him down. Lesnar can do that story well and has plenty of times, and that's Bryan's kind of match. The storyline itself meanwhile is a great feel-good one - the two big stars of Mania 30 colliding, one who's been on a tear off of ending the streak and winning the WWE title and the other who worked long and hard for his shot only to be injured by the Authority and forced to vacate it, and now he wants back the title he's never truly lost across three reigns and to finally have his proper spotlight as champion. It writes itself.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 20:44:57 GMT -5
Logically if Lesnar is going to destroy Cena the narrative of 'meeting his match' at Mania is the most logical as opposed to an 'underdog' match? "You've bullied at lot of people, Brock. Try bullying me" - only said with less charisma ....surely that's the logical progression/conclusion Lesnar's involvement with the company rather than an 'against all odds' opponent? It doesn't matter. If it's a narrative people aren't interested in seeing, who cares? You are completely ignoring the points everyone else is making now.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2014 20:47:05 GMT -5
Logically if Lesnar is going to destroy Cena the narrative of 'meeting his match' at Mania is the most logical as opposed to an 'underdog' match? "You've bullied at lot of people, Brock. Try bullying me" - only said with less charisma ....surely that's the logical progression/conclusion Lesnar's involvement with the company rather than an 'against all odds' opponent? It'll be an underdog story in the sense that Lesnar should marginalise the threat until the match itself when he realises he's in deep shit. He'll meet his match in the match itself when reality starts to dawn on him that despite being an apparent underdog, Bryan is more formidable than he thought That's where the dramatic arc lies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:49:41 GMT -5
Maybe market research, endorsements, feedback from commercial partners and merchandise sales are considered bigger indicators than people who attend live events? I must have imagined all those moments in sports and entertainment where Daniel's YES! chant was used in non wrestling events. We get it, you hate Bryan. that's perfectly OK. But saying stuff like this with NO facts backing it makes you look foolish...and that's as polite as i can be about that. I'm bored but here is a video of Islanders fan's doing the yes chant last week It's the chant Islanders fan's do whenever they score or win a game this year. Hopefully they can carry the chant over to Brooklyn next season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:52:34 GMT -5
I must have imagined all those moments in sports and entertainment where Daniel's YES! chant was used in non wrestling events. We get it, you hate Bryan. that's perfectly OK. But saying stuff like this with NO facts backing it makes you look foolish...and that's as polite as i can be about that. I'm bored but here is a video of Islanders fan's doing the yes chant last week It's the chant Islanders fan's do whenever they score or win a game this year. Hopefully they can carry the chant over to Brooklyn next season. I hear they'll switch to, "Money, money, yeah, yeah!"
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 31, 2014 20:58:17 GMT -5
I must have imagined all those moments in sports and entertainment where Daniel's YES! chant was used in non wrestling events. We get it, you hate Bryan. that's perfectly OK. But saying stuff like this with NO facts backing it makes you look foolish...and that's as polite as i can be about that. I'm bored but here is a video of Islanders fan's doing the yes chant last week It's the chant Islanders fan's do whenever they score or win a game this year. Hopefully they can carry the chant over to Brooklyn next season. Weren't they the team that had people trying to ban it? That didn't quite work, did it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:58:31 GMT -5
But I think Roman Reigns needs one more year of buildup before they consider him to be the next one. It's probably for the better let him win over couple more fans and improve in the ring. Give some other guys mega pushes ahead of him so they can't complain OMG FORCED DOWN ON THROAT! Like I have a feeling if Dean Ambrose, Dolph Ziggler, Seth Rollins (dude would get massive heat but not 2014 Batista heat), Bray Wyatt (once again heat but a few pops), and maybe Rusev (BIG MAYBE) won the Rumble instead of Daniel Bryan it wouldn't be a train wreck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 20:59:50 GMT -5
I'm bored but here is a video of Islanders fan's doing the yes chant last week It's the chant Islanders fan's do whenever they score or win a game this year. Hopefully they can carry the chant over to Brooklyn next season. Weren't they the team that had people trying to ban it? That didn't quite work, did it? Nah it's been their chant all season long and towards the end of their last season. It's just a few bitter season ticket holders which is mind boggling since it's their last season in Uniondale and the Islanders who have been one of the biggest dubious franchises in hockey for the past 20 years are actually doing extremely well this year.
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Post by Capt. Internet Darling on Dec 31, 2014 21:15:44 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd prefer Ziggler over both Bryan and Reigns at this point. It's not personal preference as I'm more of a Bryan mark than a Ziggler mark... but Ziggler has had more of a 'story' this year, more of a Road to Wrestlemania that the WWE love to constantly reference. He was the sole survivor at SS and has put on some great performances. He can be the underdog once again at WM.
Give me Lesnar vs Ziggler, Corporate Sheamus/Corporate Big Show/Corporate Kane/some Corporate guy vs Bryan and Cena vs Reigns (with added Sting vs HHH and Ambrose vs Rollins) and Wrestlemania should be good.
Note that Ziggler and Bryan are interchangeable in my dream WM card. Either could go after Lesnar and believably pull off the underdog role, both could feud with the Authority off of their history with the stable and finally end the angle for good.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2014 21:20:50 GMT -5
I'd have Ziggler win Money in the Bank at Wrestlemania, and set up Bryan vs Ziggler for Summerslam.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 21:25:32 GMT -5
Maybe market research, endorsements, feedback from commercial partners and merchandise sales are considered bigger indicators than people who attend live events? Like how Ambrose outsells Reigns in merch and is being jobbed out? Ambrose is being heavily protected. he main evented the last 2 freaking Pay per views and only lost because of shennanigans. considering the main event usually has either Cena, Orton, Lesnar or Triple H in it I think main eventing 2 ppvs and looking strong as f*** is not in the slightest jobbing out. jobbing out would be if Kane and big show beat him on Smackdown every week. not whats happening in reality which is a push. He's had as much if not more of a push than Reigns yet people think he is being jobbed out and reigns is being shoved down the throat of everyone at the expense of others. no wonder they're doing that, it works well for heat. really well as this board is showing
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 31, 2014 21:35:44 GMT -5
Sorry but the whole 'Bryan not being pushed is an OJ trial level of injustice' thing contributed towards the suckiness of the product, it didn't detract from it. I can feel the '...or we riot' bandwagon rumbling again and it fills me with absolute dread. If they want to push Bryan - fine. If it makes sense to push him - fine. But let's not get to a stage where we have organised 'hijacks' to make it happen again. If WWE actually listened to the "WWE Universe" they beat people over the heads with, hijacking wouldn't be necessary And if they listened, it would actually mean Vince is telling the truth when he talks about WWE being about freedom of speech, how the fans tell him what to do and are his 2nd biggest critics and not hijacking. It only becomes hijacking when the fans' want runs opposite of the plans of a deaf fool. I must have imagined all those moments in sports and entertainment where Daniel's YES! chant was used in non wrestling events. We get it, you hate Bryan. that's perfectly OK. But saying stuff like this with NO facts backing it makes you look foolish...and that's as polite as i can be about that. I'm bored but here is a video of Islanders fan's doing the yes chant last week It's the chant Islanders fan's do whenever they score or win a game this year. Hopefully they can carry the chant over to Brooklyn next season. Not to mention, the San Fransisco Giants, the team that just won the World Series and are located in the metro area freaking adopted Bryan and the Yes Chants, with him even in their World Series parade. He's become kind of big deal in the area.
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