Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 4, 2015 7:30:51 GMT -5
No I get it's unfounded speculation but we're only a month or so away from learning that one of the top guys in the company was repeatedly rushed back from injury and given ineffective antibiotics to treat a potentially life-threatening infection and that WWE utilises medical staff that it can be suggested put the well-being of the wrestler behind that of the companies needs.
When we have a guy who is returning from a long-ass injury lay off, miraculously in time for RR/WM season (gosh, how unexpected that is) then speculating on whether he's returning because he's ready or because, like in the Punk case, it's convenient for the company to have him around at this time - is hardly "Did man really walk on the moon or was it the desert in Arizona?" level of conspiracy theory.
Another big name is back for their big season-push. No proof of any shenanigans but enough history to ask the question.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 4, 2015 7:37:45 GMT -5
He's fine. He'll have his own doctors giving him the all clear. He wouldn't rely on WWE's suspect medical opinions. You have no idea who he would or wouldn't see.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 4, 2015 7:44:35 GMT -5
He's fine. He'll have his own doctors giving him the all clear. He wouldn't rely on WWE's suspect medical opinions. You have no idea who he would or wouldn't see. I think that's a case of "unfounded speculation" being fine if the conclusion of the speculation is what you want to hear.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 4, 2015 7:46:21 GMT -5
No I get it's unfounded speculation but we're only a month or so away from learning that one of the top guys in the company was repeatedly rushed back from injury and given ineffective antibiotics to treat a potentially life-threatening infection and that WWE utilises medical staff that it can be suggested put the well-being of the wrestler behind that of the companies needs. When we have a guy who is returning from a long-ass injury lay off, miraculously in time for RR/WM season (gosh, how unexpected that is) then speculating on whether he's returning because he's ready or because, like in the Punk case, it's convenient for the company to have him around at this time - is hardly "Did man really walk on the moon or was it the desert in Arizona?" level of conspiracy theory. Another big name is back for their big season-push. No proof of any shenanigans but enough history to ask the question. Then why are we asking questions just about Bryan? Why not go all the way and make threads about Reigns and Barrett who just recently returned? Why not make a thread about Sheamus when he returns? Lets just speculate that every single time a superstar returns, he's being forced back early because of Vince McMahon. Seriously though, the paranoia is ridiculous. Punk's case has weight because it came from Punk's mouth himself. This is just some random person on the internet saying he has a feeling something bad will happen to Bryan. There's no actual proof of it, so what reason do we have to entertain the theory?
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Jan 4, 2015 7:52:56 GMT -5
I think I accidentally clicked like on the first post when browsing this thread earlier yesterday on my phone. Didn't notice until now. Why does this always happen.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 4, 2015 7:56:56 GMT -5
From this point on when a wrestler returns from injury at a time that seems overly convenient for the company, given what we know happened in the Punk situation, I think that similar speculation would be quite reasonable.
Even now the recovery seems based on anticipated prognosis that will be good to go by the Rumble. Any sports scientists will confirm the difficulty of accurately projecting when someone will be fit to restart physical activity. They can stick a time-frame on it it and hope its met but Bryan is now locked into it by being announced at the Rumble. Even if we get to 25th Jan and he's still a few weeks away he'll have to work the show, they won't pull him out, or at least I'd be deeply shocked if they did.
I think there's an issue with saying in December "I'm not fit now but will be in 4 weeks time" - he's either fit or he isn't. They might hope he's back in 4 weeks and they might have been advised he probably will be but until he passes that fitness test nobody knows for sure. But because wrestling is how it is, was and always will be - he's now booked and will work the match come hell or high water.
This is the problem I have with it mainly. It's not "i'm now fit and here I am returned - adorn!" instead it seems to be that they think he'll be fit by a certain date so they've booked him anyway. To me this smacks of a company putting its need to shill the Rumble ahead of the guy's well-being.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 7:57:21 GMT -5
I think I accidentally clicked like on the first post when browsing this thread earlier yesterday on my phone. Didn't notice until now. Why does this always happen. Granted I don't use a phone, but I think the only times I've ever accidentally liked something it's been my own posts. I don't even know why you can like your own stuff but you can. From this point on when a wrestler returns from injury at a time that seems overly convenient for the company, given what we know happened in the Punk situation, I think that similar speculation would be quite reasonable. Even now the recovery seems based on anticipated prognosis that will be good to go by the Rumble. Any sports scientists will confirm the difficulty of accurately projecting when someone will be fit to restart physical activity. They can stick a time-frame on it it and hope its met by Bryan is now locked into it by being announced at the Rumble. Even if we get to 25th Jan and he's still a few weeks away he'll have to work the show, they won't pull him out, or at least I'd be deeply shocked if they did. I think there's an issue with saying in December "I'm not fit now but will be in 4 weeks time" - he's either fit or he isn't. They might hope he's back in 4 weeks and they might have been advised he probably will be but until he passes that fitness test nobody knows for sure. But because wrestling is how it is, was and always will be - he's now booked and will work the match come hell or high water. This is the problem I have with it mainly. It's not "i'm now fit and here I am returned - adorn!" instead it seems to be that they think he'll be fit by a certain date so they've booked him anyway. To me this smacks of a company putting its need to shill the Rumble ahead of the guy's well-being. The word that's been making the rounds is that Bryan was cleared to return three weeks before they announced it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 8:04:03 GMT -5
I have a degree from the academy of wrestling arts and sciences and in my expert opinion I have concluded he'll be fine.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,719
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 4, 2015 10:09:28 GMT -5
I've said previously that the only time that WWE will _not_ do something it doesn't want to do is if it is absolutely, legally or lawsuit- and court-ordered-wise, specifically made to do it. The way it handled Bryan's injury seems to me largely a result of what it ended up settling with CM Punk. They must have shat bricks over the settlement they had to agree to; bear in mind, this was overlapping with the concerns over Bryan's injury. If they hadn't settled with Punk and had tried to force Bryan back into the ring sooner than this, they'd have likely been looking down the barrel of a possible class-action lawsuit had anyone else gotten injured. There was a smorgasbord of injured wrestlers this past year, more than one of whom would have gone along with Punk and Bryan if it came to that.
So, yeah, it was in WWE's best interests to make absolutely certain that Bryan was truly 100% before letting him come back, and that he was treated as effectively and correctly as possible to ensure both a speedy return and a healthy return. I just hope he was doing cardio in the meantime.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 4, 2015 12:01:46 GMT -5
This discussion once again springs from taking backstage news as basically fact, which it can sometimes be, and often isn't. Remember when Cena came back and nobody knew? Remember when Jericho came back and nobody knew? WWE are frequently idiots but they're also smarter than we think and when you have some of the young guys involved who know more about social media - Punk didn't sign a new contract until the night of MITB '11 so no news could be leaked, Bryan might well have pitched putting out bogus doctor stories, even TNA had Devon end a contract while still a champion just to make his return a surprise.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
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Post by Square on Jan 4, 2015 12:05:44 GMT -5
...Can I see your medical doctorate to back your claims wildchair?
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 4, 2015 12:35:26 GMT -5
They got a Doctor to clear him to wrestle. A Doctor... of Thugonomics.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Jan 4, 2015 12:52:02 GMT -5
I have an accounting degree from Southern New Hampshire University and based on my knowledge in the area, I can conclude Bryan's injuries are fully healed.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 4, 2015 12:53:36 GMT -5
They got a Doctor to clear him to wrestle. A Doctor... of Thugonomics. His recovery methods consist of having patients lay down for a three second tan. I think that's a little suspect, rehabilitation wise.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 4, 2015 12:54:33 GMT -5
They got a Doctor to clear him to wrestle. A Doctor... of Thugonomics. His recovery methods consist of having patients lay down for a three second tan. I think that's a little suspect, rehabilitation wise. Eh, I'm okay with this.
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Post by Catchphrase! on Jan 4, 2015 13:02:32 GMT -5
No I get it's unfounded speculation but we're only a month or so away from learning that one of the top guys in the company was repeatedly rushed back from injury and given ineffective antibiotics to treat a potentially life-threatening infection and that WWE utilises medical staff that it can be suggested put the well-being of the wrestler behind that of the companies needs. When we have a guy who is returning from a long-ass injury lay off, miraculously in time for RR/WM season (gosh, how unexpected that is) then speculating on whether he's returning because he's ready or because, like in the Punk case, it's convenient for the company to have him around at this time - is hardly "Did man really walk on the moon or was it the desert in Arizona?" level of conspiracy theory. Another big name is back for their big season-push. No proof of any shenanigans but enough history to ask the question. An incy-wincy little note, from someone with a little bit of a scientific background: If you're going to speculate, especially with regard to the efficacy of WWE practices, then perhaps you should at least adhere to some pretense of scientific methodology. I mean, for one, Punk—aka, the man upon whom you're argument seems to utterly rely—is an inadequate sample, for two reasons: (a) the sample size is embarrassingly small, especially when you take into account the rumors on Hogan and Angle, as well as the cases of Edge, Christian, Corey Graves and Mick Foley, and (b) it's a one-sided account, which doesn't always beget true elucidation (e.g., perhaps Punk didn't divulge important information pertinent to an accurate diagnosis). Anyway, this is a meaningless discussion, even more than the usual, because you don't have the appropriate information, so all conjecture is really just derived from little more than BS.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 4, 2015 13:10:22 GMT -5
No I get it's unfounded speculation but we're only a month or so away from learning that one of the top guys in the company was repeatedly rushed back from injury and given ineffective antibiotics to treat a potentially life-threatening infection and that WWE utilises medical staff that it can be suggested put the well-being of the wrestler behind that of the companies needs. When we have a guy who is returning from a long-ass injury lay off, miraculously in time for RR/WM season (gosh, how unexpected that is) then speculating on whether he's returning because he's ready or because, like in the Punk case, it's convenient for the company to have him around at this time - is hardly "Did man really walk on the moon or was it the desert in Arizona?" level of conspiracy theory. Another big name is back for their big season-push. No proof of any shenanigans but enough history to ask the question. An incy-wincy little note, from someone with a little bit of a scientific background: If you're going to speculate, especially with regard to the efficacy of WWE practices, then perhaps you should at least adhere to some pretense of scientific methodology. I mean, for one, Punk—aka, the man upon whom you're argument seems to utterly rely—is an inadequate sample, for two reasons: (a) the sample size is embarrassingly small, especially when you take into account the rumors on Hogan and Angle, as well as the cases of Edge, Christian, Corey Graves and Mick Foley, and (b) it's a one-sided account, which doesn't always beget true elucidation (e.g., perhaps Punk didn't divulge important information pertinent to an accurate diagnosis). Anyway, this is a meaningless discussion, even more than the usual, because you don't have the appropriate information, so all conjecture is really just derived from little more than BS. That's like saying "From someone who owns a house, take it from me the eggs are terrible" What does your 'scientific background' have to do with any points you made? So you can't take what Punk says but you can "take into account the rumors on Hogan and Angle". So it's scientific to ignore testimony if they're counter-balanced by rumour? We have recent evidence of someone going on record to say he wasn't treated sufficiently and rushed back from injury repeatedly. Yet having concerns based on the companies procedure based on that is unfounded because there are "rumors" about Angle?
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Post by Catchphrase! on Jan 4, 2015 13:29:16 GMT -5
That's like saying "From someone who owns a house, take it from me the eggs are terrible" Eh, not really, but I guess you needed a witty comeback, because, hey, this is the internet—why bother writing a post sans obnoxious drivel? EDIT: Actually, allow me to make the point more evident. The matter which you are discussing is scientific in nature, meaning you must adhere to such a paradigm if you wish to have your speculation treated seriously. You have not. You have decided to argue based on nothing more than the claim of a single man with an apparent grudge against the company on which he spoke—that's joke, and an horribly unfunny one. So, if you want your comments to be taken seriously, then I advise you to approach the matter differently. If we're arguing on the basis of inappropriate information, sure. But if not, then we still have, “Edge, Christian, Corey Graves and Mick Foley”—you know, the part you conveniently ignored? Mmm, I do love me a good Strawman.
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wildchair
Tommy Wiseau
A fan of the WWF/WWE since 1982
Posts: 77
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Post by wildchair on Jan 4, 2015 13:40:48 GMT -5
I am not asking you to believe me, trust me, or listen to me. I simply made a thread to share my feelings based on what I see and feel, with over 30 years of experience being a fan and 4 years of in ring experience in the 80's on a local circuit. Something to discuss and think about. I know this business and it's temptations and dangers well.
I find it incredibly odd that many people here almost seem offended by the mere suggestion that Bryan is returning too quickly, defying medical orders. Many of the same people who were fully behind CM Punk and against the shameful way the WWE treated him medically.
The way I see it, Bryan has been struggling with his medical issues for a very long time, seeing Doctor after Doctor, getting test after test. Getting surgery that did not work, trying physical therapy that did not work. It was very bleak and people even expressed concern here a few weeks ago when Bryan was the guest GM that perhaps it was "too soon" even for that. Why all of a sudden are people 100% buying this that is he 100% and ready to go? The CM Punk fiasco showed just how cunning and deceitful the WWE can be regarding the health of their independent contractors. Vince has said in the past that he is OK with guys working hurt and in fact expects it from his guys.
The question is why do the WWE have the worst Doctors in the world? Bryan was seeing them for several months. Are they this incompetent? Who is this sudden miracle Doctor who magically fixed Bryan back to 100% of his performing ability? Who is this Doctor that was able to fix the problems Bryan was having without Tommy John surgery? I would love to meet him or her. In fact, this person sounds so talented the WWE should consider firing all of their Doctors and going with this one, Bryan would have had the correct diagnosis and treatment from the beginning. There must have been massive incompetence in the Doctors Bryan was seeing who could not see the cure right in front of their face.
Bryan is from all reports a good guy, unlike CM Punk from most reports is a major a-hole. I have enjoyed his work for years before he was allowed into the WWE to try to reach for the Brass Ring by Vince. I do not want him hurt, or worse crippled or dead. The WWE has a history of callous disregard for their independent contractors.
People have accused me of wild speculation, but outside of 100% confirmed WWE press reports, everything we say is speculation, guessing, and mystery solving. It's why the forum is here, or all this would be is a RSS feed of official WWE press releases.
When I say that Bryan looked ill in the ring, sure I am not his medical doctor but I have watched his career from the start and to me with that experience backing me up he looked ill. It's just a guess. I hope I am proven wrong. Perhaps he just has a cold, or is vitamin deficient. Of course there is 100% no way he could be seeing the big money season in front of him vanish and decide to see a "second, third, fourth, fifth, opinion" to get cleared. That big Mania payday for him is there and there is no way the WWE would try to get him back sooner to pop more sales, and perhaps Vince has had a sudden change of heart and is intending to treat all it's independent contractors with the same love and care he gave Shane and Stephanie, and his grandkids.
Or perhaps he is coming back sooner than he should have. The sad part is we will all see in the coming months the truth. And I pray that truth does not destroy his life.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 4, 2015 13:43:46 GMT -5
I am not asking you to believe me, trust me, or listen to me. I simply made a thread to share my feelings based on what I see and feel, with over 30 years of experience being a fan and 4 years of in ring experience in the 80's on a local circuit. Something to discuss and think about. I know this business and it's temptations and dangers well. I find it incredibly odd that many people here almost seem offended by the mere suggestion that Bryan is returning too quickly, defying medical orders. Many of the same people who were fully behind CM Punk and against the shameful way the WWE treated him medically. The way I see it, Bryan has been struggling with his medical issues for a very long time, seeing Doctor after Doctor, getting test after test. Getting surgery that did not work, trying physical therapy that did not work. It was very bleak and people even expressed concern here a few weeks ago when Bryan was the guest GM that perhaps it was "too soon" even for that. Why all of a sudden are people 100% buying this that is he 100% and ready to go? The CM Punk fiasco showed just how cunning and deceitful the WWE can be regarding the health of their independent contractors. Vince has said in the past that he is OK with guys working hurt and in fact expects it from his guys. The question is why do the WWE have the worst Doctors in the world? Bryan was seeing them for several months. Are they this incompetent? Who is this sudden miracle Doctor who magically fixed Bryan back to 100% of his performing ability? Who is this Doctor that was able to fix the problems Bryan was having without Tommy John surgery? I would love to meet him or her. In fact, this person sounds so talented the WWE should consider firing all of their Doctors and going with this one, Bryan would have had the correct diagnosis and treatment from the beginning. There must have been massive incompetence in the Doctors Bryan was seeing who could not see the cure right in front of their face. Bryan is from all reports a good guy, unlike CM Punk from most reports is a major a-hole. I have enjoyed his work for years before he was allowed into the WWE to try to reach for the Brass Ring by Vince. I do not want him hurt, or worse crippled or dead. The WWE has a history of callous disregard for their independent contractors. People have accused me of wild speculation, but outside of 100% confirmed WWE press reports, everything we say is speculation, guessing, and mystery solving. It's why the forum is here, or all this would be is a RSS feed of official WWE press releases. When I say that Bryan looked ill in the ring, sure I am not his medical doctor but I have watched his career from the start and to me with that experience backing me up he looked ill. It's just a guess. I hope I am proven wrong. Perhaps he just has a cold, or is vitamin deficient. Of course there is 100% no way he could be seeing the big money season in front of him vanish and decide to see a "second, third, fourth, fifth, opinion" to get cleared. That big Mania payday for him is there and there is no way the WWE would try to get him back sooner to pop more sales, and perhaps Vince has had a sudden change of heart and is intending to treat all it's independent contractors with the same love and care he gave Shane and Stephanie, and his grandkids. Or perhaps he is coming back sooner than he should have. The sad part is we will all see in the coming months the truth. And I pray that truth does not destroy his life. Stop. Stop please.
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