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Post by xCompackx on Dec 17, 2015 11:16:10 GMT -5
It's fine if you didn't like the crowd, but if people want to chant something at a wrestling show that they paid to see, it's not really our business to tell them otherwise.
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repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,050
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Post by repomark on Dec 17, 2015 11:24:39 GMT -5
I think there is a difference between singing songs and chanting in order to illustrate you are deeply invested in the match/character in the ring and chanting nonsense to show you are disinterested in the match/character in the ring.
Chanting the commentators names or random wrestlers from the past who are in no way involved in the match, that is disrespectful. Coming up with inventive songs to support your favourites - that is showing respect and generating atmosphere.
I think the London crowd got the balance spot on, whereas the post Mania crowds have gone a little off message at points in recent times - and I say that as someone who has attended every one since Miami.
It is all about personal preference, but I would take a boisterous crowd singing songs of respect to their idols over a silent or obnoxious "we are awesome" style crowd at every show.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 17, 2015 11:25:49 GMT -5
Anyways it might be weird because it wasn't long ago I was posting my disdain for the "hey we want some Bayley" chant but I f***ing loved the Takeover crowd yesterday. The key difference is that it felt like these chants were meant to build guys up, you still saw a crowd with eyes on the match, they weren't dancing and completely making a spectacle of themselves and it didn't matter what was going on in the ring, they were going to do that no matter what. I thought it was magical when they were singing whatever the hell they were singing to Bayley against Nia Jax, when it seemed like she was on the cusp of finally maneuvering her way into a comeback, she climbs up to her feet and Nia Jax sandwiches her in the corner and the singing just completely stops. Just how it seemed like this was a pivotal moment where the crowd support was gonna revive Bayley and get back in the fight and if that didn't work they're f***ed. I would take atmospheres like this over "let's go heel/let's go face" we love everyone chants. This crowd was in it for the babyfaces and booing the heels, it just so happened the cheered the faces with a bit of pizazz. I had no qualms with this audience at all. They were engaged, creative and really made the whole show feel big. This- the big problem with discussing crowds is that it does seem like it's all or nothing too often- where there's a "If you don't celebrate every person in the audience saying 'YOU SUCK (blank)' to the Divas then you just hate fun and want people sitting on their hands!" mentality. The London crowd is a better example of the real point, though: Crowd reactions are the same as inside a wrestling match as a whole: It may "seem" imperceptible to people, but if something is going right, you KNOW it's going right, and if something's going wrong, you KNOW. In a wrestling match- if a babyface is on the attack in the ring, if someone's locked in a submission hold, a simple smile by the heel as they're fighting them or a simple blank face by the person in the hold is almost imperceptible- but it's perceptible enough to know "this person just completely destroyed the match and made their opponent look like a joke." This can be the same for NXT crowds. Even if both crowds are making chants and trying to have some fun- you can tell a crowd that's actually invested in the matches from a crowd that's just doing it to make themselves the show. You can tell a crowd that's excited for Bayley and genuinely trying to bring her to a comeback from a crowd that just wants to get their chants in and will cheer for Bayley under their chant as long as the TV is on them...or at least long enough until some bad guys attack her so they can start the Peter Griffin chant and make fun of what's supposed to be a big injury, that is. There's noticable differences- especially now that video gets higher and higher definition, allowing you to get more and more focus on the crowd reactions as a whole- that can really let you KNOW what a crowd's like. It can tell when there's a seagull pop on taped shows and when the fans in the audience couldn't give a crap about it, and can separate the people who are genuinely invested in the show from people who are more invested in getting themselves over.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Dec 17, 2015 11:41:58 GMT -5
I enjoy NXT crowds for the most part, but there are some moments when they drive me a bit crazy.
Like, you really don't have to yell THIS IS WRESTLING in my ear 30 f***ing times in the span of 5 minutes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 11:45:13 GMT -5
I enjoy NXT crowds for the most part, but there are some moments when they drive me a bit crazy. Like, you really don't have to yell THIS IS WRESTLING in my ear 30 f***ing times in the span of 5 minutes. But what if we forget what we're watching?!
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2015 11:45:29 GMT -5
NXT crowds.
Please keep chanting and singing.
Louder actually.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,852
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Post by 4real on Dec 17, 2015 11:54:27 GMT -5
I was at the show and can safely say I had more fun at that show then any other I've ever been to. The atmosphere outside and inside the Arena was great and had a number of conversations with wrestling fans I had never met before just because we all shared one thing in common.
I loved the crowds creative chanting and energy. I hate going to any event and the crowd is just silent and there's no atmosphere. I'm an Arsenal fan so yeah I know something about that! I don't think at any point the crowd stepped over a line and was thankful for that. Just 10 thousand (10! 10! 10! 10!) people having a blast watching a show that they love.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on Dec 17, 2015 11:57:19 GMT -5
I was at the show and can safely say I had more fun at that show then any other I've ever been to. The atmosphere outside and inside the Arena was great and had a number of conversations with wrestling fans I had never met before just because we all shared one thing in common. I loved the crowds creative chanting and energy. I hate going to any event and the crowd is just silent and there's no atmosphere. I'm an Arsenal fan so yeah I know something about that! I don't think at any point the crowd stepped over a line and was thankful for that. Just 10 thousand (10! 10! 10! 10!) people having a blast watching a show that they love. can you please tell me what the hell songs were being chanted for enzo and bayley?? I thought i heard the Ramones at one point but im no expert on UK music... or the Beetles.
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Post by Captain & Diet on Dec 17, 2015 11:57:44 GMT -5
If you go back and look at my posts, you'll see how much I hate chants. I feel like most times, crowd chants get started by fans trying to get themselves over. Kinda like, "See what I did? I belong!" To me, that behavior is pathetic.
Yesterday's NXT show was different. It was held in London. Culturally, London is different than the US. I've seen enough soccer (ugh) to know that singing is a staple of the day experience. Also, this was the first UK "PPV" in forever. So a passionate crowd was a given. I've seen UK crowds behave the same way at UFC.
I'm totally fine with how the crowd behaved. Strangely, I don't find the London crowd nearly as grating as US crowds. Maybe it's the lack of Cheetos-eating neckbeards. Or beta males. Or guys that are both. No, watching Takeover London was like watching an exciting sporting event. The show was damn good and the crowd added to it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 12:04:10 GMT -5
Pro wrestling is a circus, pro wrestling has always been a circus, and what does the audience do at a circus? They cheer, boo, and generally make a lot of noise. I mean if the trained professionals that are essentially risking their health and lives every time they step in the ring aren't bothered by the crowd, why are so many people catching feelings over this? No one is saying anyone needs to enjoy a single second of any of these chants, but at the same time it's getting beyond old that there is a new topic about crowds "getting themselves over" after every show with a loud audience. If you don't like it, the onus is on you to mute it, turn the channel, or just frankly deal with it.
Being a fan of pro wrestling is just not that serious. If this stuff is bothering people IRL, it's time to get a grip.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,852
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Post by 4real on Dec 17, 2015 12:04:23 GMT -5
I was at the show and can safely say I had more fun at that show then any other I've ever been to. The atmosphere outside and inside the Arena was great and had a number of conversations with wrestling fans I had never met before just because we all shared one thing in common. I loved the crowds creative chanting and energy. I hate going to any event and the crowd is just silent and there's no atmosphere. I'm an Arsenal fan so yeah I know something about that! I don't think at any point the crowd stepped over a line and was thankful for that. Just 10 thousand (10! 10! 10! 10!) people having a blast watching a show that they love. can you please tell me what the hell songs were being chanted for enzo and bayley?? I thought i heard the Ramones at one point but im no expert on UK music... or the Beetles. Bayley got the "Hey Bayley" song by Dr Oitzi which was huge everywhere in like 2001! The crowd also chanted 'Big Cass' to the tune of Hey Jude by The Beatles. Enzo Amore was sung to the tune of Seven Nation Army by White Stripes. I don't know if any Ramones songs were sung I'm not a massive fan of there's though I know a few songs.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2015 12:06:38 GMT -5
If crowds are getting themselves over, it's nice to know at least someone in WWE is.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,098
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 17, 2015 12:10:20 GMT -5
I think there is a difference between singing songs and chanting in order to illustrate you are deeply invested in the match/character in the ring and chanting nonsense to show you are disinterested in the match/character in the ring. Chanting the commentators names or random wrestlers from the past who are in no way involved in the match, that is disrespectful. Coming up with inventive songs to support your favourites - that is showing respect and generating atmosphere. I think the London crowd got the balance spot on, whereas the post Mania crowds have gone a little off message at points in recent times - and I say that as someone who has attended every one since Miami. It is all about personal preference, but I would take a boisterous crowd singing songs of respect to their idols over a silent or obnoxious "we are awesome" style crowd at every show. See, that's my argument about this. Enzo's in there, we chant to support him, and chant negative stuff at his opponents. If we were doing random "Michael Cole" chants, that'd be another thing. But then again, people normally do that when they have crap in front of them. Also a heads up, the tag team 4 way next week, that was possibly the loudest chanting of the whole night since it was the first match.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Dec 17, 2015 12:11:56 GMT -5
If crowds are getting themselves over, it's nice to know at least someone in WWE is. Anyway, it did get a bit incessant after a while, but the "HEEEEEEEEY BAILEY" got a smile out of me. Best original chant I've heard in a long time.
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Post by Von Wagner's Brownies on Dec 17, 2015 12:18:48 GMT -5
I'm just glad they didn't keep chanting "Hey, we want some Bailey" over and over, but I didn't like how when the ref started counting the crowd counted ahead of him.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Dec 17, 2015 12:19:16 GMT -5
I have no problem with people not likeing the chants. I love them though.
What annoys me is people calling those that chant idiots, goofballs or fools etc. Or say stuff like 'those guys are only trying to get themselves over'.
People don't like the chanting? Fine. But don't demean those that do.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 17, 2015 12:22:35 GMT -5
Some thoughts:
1) Why was the OP upset about the Indy Racing League? I thought it was out of season. C'mon, it's just open-wheel racing.
2) If I had a nickel for every time people showed complete respect in a wrestling thread ... I'd have ZERO nickels. So no pizza for me.
3) I liked the crowd. They had fun and I got the idea that the wrestlers felt respected and appreciated BECAUSE of all the chants. As someone pointed out on some thread where this came up, the chants/songs showed support for the ones they like and, apparently at least at house shows over there that got similar reactions, the heels adapted to jeer the crowd for singing for the babyfaces ... so it actually helped the talent on both sides of the heel/face ledger better do their jobs.
4) In general, I tend to side with the crowds on these things. They pay to be there, they are (usually) doing these things to have fun. I probably feel that way because I go to a fair amount of live shows (about to order presale tix for a Road to WM Raw in my area) and, while I'm probably wrong, I get the feeling a lot of the critics are people who sit on their couches and don't go to shows and don't understand that dynamic -- I can tell you this, when I go to a show whatever I do to have fun as far as cheering/chanting, I give zero f---s what someone at home thinks. I am not there to entertain you, I am there to be entertained ... And if chanting makes my experience more enjoyable, that's what matters to me.
Now, I do have some parameters that I feel are out of bounds -- if I'm at an event where there are families and children (say a WWE live show), I don't have any respect or tolerance for chanting or screaming of obscenities. That also goes at a high school or college football games. I rarely say anything, but I once told a woman to shut up at a high school basketball game when she kept cheering and clapping because a player on the opposing team was injured (obviously blew his knee out, he's on the court grabbing his knee in obvious pain and being attended to by medics). On the other hand, at a live ROH show (been to several) when a vulgar chant breaks out (which has actually rarely happened when I've gone to indy shows), that's different because I've hardly ever seen families with young children at those. Like maybe one kid ever. So it's a different atmosphere and a different audience.
5) Everyone has a right to their opinion. If someone on a message board rants about how much they hate what a crowd does, goody gumdrops for them. But I and others have a right to say, "Sorry you were annoyed. Life is annoying. Learn to deal with it." If other people and how they act are my problem, I'm completely f---ed, because I have no control over them. People do what they do because that's what they do. If they are WAY out of line, I hope they are dealt with, ejected, whatever. If they are "trying to get themselves over" ... who am I to judge?
Glad the OP made this thread and went about it the way he/she did. It's good to have a discussion. And yeah I poked a little fun high in my post. I was probably trying to get myself over. Deal with it.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Dec 17, 2015 12:28:49 GMT -5
I've seen a few say that because the crowd were chanting or singing songs they weren't into the match, Dave Meltzer said something similar in his report of the show, but that just isn't true. Chanting is just part of the sporting culture in Europe, and especially in Britain.
If you didn't like it then fine, its your opinion, but saying the crowd were interested in getting themselves over or were ignoring the matches is just factually wrong.
I'm speaking generally here, not specifically accusing anyone. Well, other than Meltzer.
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Post by lionelp on Dec 17, 2015 12:33:30 GMT -5
I mean I think it's just such an insignificant thing to even get worked up about, it hardly matters in the grand scheme of anything. We all bash our keyboard, log off and continue with our real lives.
That can be applied to a lot of things on this or any internet message board.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Dec 17, 2015 12:34:01 GMT -5
For whatever its worth Gable, Jordan, Enzo, Cass and Greg Hamilton all told me how much they loved the crowd. Bayley was also the target of some good natured ribbing as Cass attempted to sing "Heyyy hey Bayley. Ooh Ahh. I wanna knowwww if you'll be my girl"
The wrestlers themselves did a few of the chants as well so I think they enjoyed it.
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