RedDevil
Don Corleone
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Post by RedDevil on Dec 17, 2015 12:34:40 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I know I'm probably supposed to hate it because it doesn't "show respect" to the wrestlers ( which is BS because they're chanting these things because they LOVE these guys), but I can't get the grin off my face here. Was this part really necessary? A simple "I disagree because" would have sufficed there. From someone that's supposed to be a moderator on the site, that's pretty derogatory to the other side of the argument. I get what EoE's saying (and don't get it twisted, he's an awesome guy) but remember a few paragraphs up when I said words have power? Yeah... That right there is the type of stuff that made it feel like I was under attack. Not only do I have posters coming at me, you have mods openly supporting their side and condemning the others as their viewpoint being "BS." That's nothing resembling creating an environment for open discussion because all that does is encourage others to be even more dismissive of the other side. I'm sorry to hear that you were so upset by the discussion you've outlined - I read through the thread after the show and thought it was an fun record of a damn good Takeover show, which I enjoyed immensely. The idea of the thread causing such strong negative reactions with you genuinely saddens me, as I felt nothing but positivity from the thread, and the forum in general (despite all the negativity around most of what WWE does, this forum adds fun to every stupid move WWE makes ). In regard to the crowd last night - I thought they were amazing. Absolutely loved them, and I thought they lifted an already damn good show with their energy and enthusiasm. But then again, I am English, so whilst I couldn't be at the show last night, that is exactly the type of crowd I'd love to be apart of. Much of the chants come from adapting football chants in clever ways - like Arsenal fans sing Olivier Giroud's name to the tune of Hey Jude, Seven Nation Army was used by Manchester United fans for Robin Van Persie, etc., so an English crowd can pick-up an adaptation of those songs very quickly, which results in the near-total participation that I think can lift the show to another level. And when a vocal crowd reacts to the story in the ring as strongly as they did with the Bayley match, then I think it can lift the match as well. Basically I agree with the poster who referred to the Japanese fans and how they react as well - it adds something to a travelling show to experience different audiences, even if they are completely different as in the example of an English crowd vs. a Japanese crowd. Both will add to the uniqueness of their respective shows, and I think that's for the benefit of the show as a whole.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,099
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 17, 2015 12:34:43 GMT -5
I've seen a few say that because the crowd were chanting or singing songs they weren't into the match, Dave Meltzer said something similar in his report of the show, but that just isn't true. Chanting is just part of the sporting culture in Europe, and especially in Britain. If you didn't like it then fine, its your opinion, but saying the crowd were interested in getting themselves over or were ignoring the matches is just factually wrong. I'm speaking generally here, not specifically accusing anyone. Well, other than Meltzer. I'd love to see that report. "They were non stop chanting for Enzo, Cass and against The Mechanics", clearly they weren't into the match.
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Vern
Hank Scorpio
Almighty Malachi.
Posts: 5,215
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Post by Vern on Dec 17, 2015 12:35:19 GMT -5
Yell/Scream as loud and as often as you want, as long as you're referencing someone or something in the ring.
Self-referencing, non-PG and totally random unrelated chants are dickish, anything else is fair game. The atmosphere, camaraderie and whole live experience are the main reasons to buy a ticket. Otherwise every seat further back than a PWG crowd might as well have stayed at home.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Dec 17, 2015 12:37:21 GMT -5
I adore whoever decided to adapt the Arsenal v Tottenham chant for Tye Dillinger's topknot haircut.
What do you think of topknots? SHIT What do you think of shit? TOPKNOTS Thank you! THAT'S ALRIGHT!
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,880
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Post by Dub H on Dec 17, 2015 12:39:17 GMT -5
"Heeey Baaayleeey. OOH AAAH. I wanna knooooow,will you be my girl?"
Is the most adorable and the best chant of all time.
I loved the crowd,more energetic and creative than most US crowds
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2015 12:40:00 GMT -5
I was at the show and can safely say I had more fun at that show then any other I've ever been to. The atmosphere outside and inside the Arena was great and had a number of conversations with wrestling fans I had never met before just because we all shared one thing in common. I loved the crowds creative chanting and energy. I hate going to any event and the crowd is just silent and there's no atmosphere. I'm an Arsenal fan so yeah I know something about that! I don't think at any point the crowd stepped over a line and was thankful for that. Just 10 thousand (10! 10! 10! 10!) people having a blast watching a show that they love. I'm glad you had fun! I'm sure it was a blast to participate in all the chants and stuff live. For me, it just didn't translate well over TV (or, "internet stream", I guess) but at the end of the day, you guys paid good money and went through the effort of actually going to the show so you guys deserved to have fun.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 12:40:48 GMT -5
The singing didn't really bother me other than the fact that it was really out of place a couple of times. All the "super edgy" stuff they chanted during the Corbin vs Crews match is what annoyed me.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Dec 17, 2015 12:42:02 GMT -5
The singing didn't really bother me other than the fact that it was really out of place a couple of times. All the "super edgy" stuff they chanted during the Corbin vs Crews match is what annoyed me. I heard that was a bit rough. I'd gone to get beer during that match as did half of the arena it seemed.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2015 12:50:43 GMT -5
I don't really see that comment as derogatory. He just finds the notion that excessive chanting is not a sign of disrespect the way others do. I personally think it can be disrespectful but isn't always. Anyways it might be weird because it wasn't long ago I was posting my disdain for the "hey we want some Bayley" chant but I f***ing loved the Takeover crowd yesterday. The key difference is that it felt like these chants were meant to build guys up, you still saw a crowd with eyes on the match, they weren't dancing and completely making a spectacle of themselves and it didn't matter what was going on in the ring, they were going to do that no matter what. I thought it was magical when they were singing whatever the hell they were singing to Bayley against Nia Jax, when it seemed like she was on the cusp of finally maneuvering her way into a comeback, she climbs up to her feet and Nia Jax sandwiches her in the corner and the singing just completely stops. Just how it seemed like this was a pivotal moment where the crowd support was gonna revive Bayley and get back in the fight and if that didn't work they're f***ed. I would take atmospheres like this over "let's go heel/let's go face" we love everyone chants. This crowd was in it for the babyfaces and booing the heels, it just so happened the cheered the faces with a bit of pizazz. I had no qualms with this audience at all. They were engaged, creative and really made the whole show feel big. I absolutely loved the chants, especially for Enzo (he was GOD out there). It gives each crowd their own identity, and honestly, was a definite plus for a show that was "just ok" to me. Crowd of the year by a mile. Unique atmosphere, unique chants, you could see the wrestlers loved it, just amazing. When stuff like this happens it really sets a show aside as something special and different. Hey Bailey to dj Otzi is perhaps my favourite chant of all time now. These are all very fair points. The show was different than 99% of WWE shows, that's for sure and I can understand how others can really appreciate that. If nothing else, it wasn't a boring crowd. I would like to thank everybody for their civility so far. See, I knew we could have a nice discussion about this!
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
Black Lives Matter
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 17, 2015 12:54:07 GMT -5
Meh.
You're entitled to your opinion.
Here's mine.
If it bothers you SO MUCH that you have to make a wall of text to explain yourself and feel justified that it bothers you THAT MUCH, then mute your TV, put the CC on and listen to music.
The crowd was enjoying themselves, chanting about what was happening or at least about the wrestlers in the ring.
WWE has a lot of problems. Crowds enjoying themselves while staying focused on what's happening in ring is not one of them.
All due respect, because I enjoy going back and forth with you on the board, but this is the biggest mountain out of a mole hill I've seen in a long time.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 17, 2015 13:02:09 GMT -5
I've been on the same side in the past but I found the London crowd to be very real, authentic. They didn't feel like the Full Sail/Impact mutants that chanting and dancing and taking away from the in ring product or the crowd who would rather cheer for a botch, the announcers or themselves but we're trying to add to it. The singing to Bayley while she is down or making her comeback felt like them willing her back.
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Johnny
Don Corleone
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Post by Johnny on Dec 17, 2015 13:03:41 GMT -5
I was part of the crowd last night, and before the show I was a bit concerned about whether we'd behave ourselves, or whether we'd be full of people trying to "get themselves over".
I'm glad to say that I thought last night went about as well as can be expected for our participation. I could have done without the swearing chants, as I would like to be able to take my daughter one day to these kind of shows.
Apart from Hype Bros and Joe, all faces got cheers, and all heels got booed. I found the timing of the songs/chants to be very respectful. During the Bayley match in particular, the songs came and went, but stopped at certain points when Bayley needed some rallying clap support. Also, it was noticeable how the wrestlers timed their transitions and reversals around the songs, waiting for the natural end point of the verse before punctuating with a move.
There is a minority in the crowd just trying to be the one to come up with the next witty song/chant, but the vast majority are just singing along in support/abuse of the wrestlers, whilst enjoying the action.
It's not like wwe don't want that kind of crowd, as HHH pretty much said "you wanted this show, now prove why it was a good decision" as the start.
Much better than the post-mania crowds of the last few years.
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Post by Aboutreika18 on Dec 17, 2015 13:05:04 GMT -5
Honestly, I flip-flop a lot on the crowds these days because they're so damn weird.
My pet peeve is still the overuse of "This is Awesome" chants and just what a stupid chant it is in general.
Imagine great moments like Hogan slamming Andre or Austin and the Zamboni happening in front of the fruity crowds we get today.
Instead of completely popping like crazy and blowing the roof of the building they'd break into those horrible "This is Awesome" chants.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Dec 17, 2015 13:06:54 GMT -5
I adore whoever decided to adapt the Arsenal v Tottenham chant for Tye Dillinger's topknot haircut. What do you think of topknots? SHIT What do you think of shit? TOPKNOTS Thank you! THAT'S ALRIGHT! Ha I didn't hear that one, did hear the crowd chant 'Topknot wanker' though.
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Post by The Tee Why on Dec 17, 2015 13:11:08 GMT -5
After about half of the show I was getting pretty tired of their singing
My buddy made a post about it on reddit and everyone basically said "maybe you should just watch raw, sounds like the kinda crowd you like", I mean...we all love a raucous hot crowd but is it that hard to believe that people would find it a bit annoying?
Some of the chants are just pathetically stupid too "this is wrestling" yea no shit, so watch it and shut up man.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 17, 2015 13:19:56 GMT -5
I'm just glad they didn't keep chanting "Hey, we want some Bailey" over and over, but I didn't like how when the ref started counting the crowd counted ahead of him. I think the point of the counting ahead was so they'd get a chance to do the "TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN" every time the ref hit 9, because they knew for damn sure there wouldn't be any count-outs. It did kind of annoy me though. See, I'm kind of afraid of saying that I do not like the singsong chants one bit, because it makes it sound like I'm bigoted against English people due to that being a staple of their sports-fan experience. It makes it very hard to express one's dislike for that style of chant because it comes off as rejecting or dismissing their culture (which is not my intention at all). :/ And I know that what I'm about to say NOW is not their intention, but I don't know, man, the singing just almost makes it feel like MST3K to me, or something. The "Hey Jude" one especially just took me completely out of that match. That said, I apologize to anybody who feels insulted or disrespected by my post.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 17, 2015 13:24:39 GMT -5
I mean I think it's just such an insignificant thing to even get worked up about, it hardly matters in the grand scheme of anything. We all bash our keyboard, log off and continue with our real lives. That can be applied to a lot of things on this or any internet message board. It's still real to me
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 17, 2015 13:26:31 GMT -5
I'm still just waiting for people to come to shows with signs letting crowds know when noise is required, or when an appropriate silence is necessary. How will I know I'm enjoying the show right if there's not someone there to tell me how stupid I am for chanting?
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gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Dec 17, 2015 13:39:11 GMT -5
Only chant I hated was when people chanted 'Botchamania' at Corbin when Apollo COUNTERED a move. It really made me realise that a lot of the crowd weren't into Corbin's heel character as much as they're under the misapprehension that he's a bad wrestler and couldn't wait for him to give them evidence to support this belief, and also that they don't understand wrestling half as much as they think they do if they thought that was a botch. I know his gimmick is basically 'trolling the smarks' but that showed me people were falling for it a bit too much in a way that doesn't help the match or the product. I wish Apollo was more over too but you can't force a crowd to care about a guy.
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Post by Raskovnik on Dec 17, 2015 13:54:18 GMT -5
I threw it on mute like I usually do. Dumb chants and songs are not my scene at all. I'll beat up whoever tells me to lighten up or that I hate fun or whatever, too. On mommas, we will catch fade in the parking lot. It has never made anyone look not stupid, I promise you. It's just not my idea of this nebulous concept of "fun" and does nothing for me. I'm not even mad about it or anything. I simply don't like it. It does not entertain me or add to the show for me at the best of times and at worst it takes me out of it. Pfft, singing a song while Bayley is getting MURDERED live on air. I love it when crowds are hot for a match even though a lot of humanoids on here think you can only have a obnoxious crowd or a dead silent one with absolutely no in between, and that obviously I'm clamoring for the latter since I hate the former.
The thing that MAKES professional wrestling so unique and special as performance art and as a medium is the crowd interaction. The heels getting resounding boos, the crowd cheering on a babyface as he makes his triumphant comeback, the wrestlers playing to the audience. So much of what we see means nothing in a vacuum. The issue is this specific brand of crowd as well as the one NXT crowds bring to the table does not jive with my viewing experience or what I want to see from a crowd. It's so cutesy and tongue in cheek. These wrestlers are supposed to be fighting and telling a story in the ring for real, in a very human drama, so breaking out into songs as was the case for this show, and ironic, goofy, self-aware chants is how the crowds react? It doesn't come across as if they're engaging in show they're seeing the way I'd ideally like to engage in wrestling myself. It's like watching a movie or TV show with your friend and all they can f***ing do is make stupid jokes about things that just happened or reference other things the actors have been in however unrelated that is to let you know how funny and aware they are of things. Some people like that, a lot of people do apparently, but it's not what I'm watching wrestling or anything else for.
This is also why I like Japanese crowds the most. Respectful, loud (anyone who says they're not loud has never even watched it) and they'll rally behind a wrestler by chanting his name to encourage him but you're not hearing any KORE WA RESURINGU! or WATASHITACHI WA SUBARASHII! chants breaking out. That's the mindset I approach watching a match with too. They're not putting themselves above the product, as if the only way they can invest themselves into the fight is by letting you know that they totally know how fake this and everything about it is, but they still think it's pretty cool. Because, despite what people claim, that IS how it comes across. When the f*** did cheering and booing become passe? At one point was it no longer sufficient to voice your pleasure or displeasure in that manner? I guess if you just do that then people wouldn't know how totally wise you are to the game.
Also, as an aside, I don't care if they paid to be there, like that somehow makes how I feel about it moot. I paid to watch it, jabronis. That means I'm entitled to an opinion too, especially because the crowd is part of the show I paid for. That's another dumb argument I see pop up all too often.
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