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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 17, 2015 13:57:57 GMT -5
I threw it on mute like I usually do. Dumb chants and songs are not my scene at all. I'll beat up whoever tells me to lighten up or that I hate fun or whatever, too. On mommas, we will catch fade in the parking lot. It has never made anyone look not stupid, I promise you. It's just not my idea of this nebulous concept of "fun" and does nothing for me. I'm not even mad about it or anything. I simply don't like it. It does not entertain me or add to the show for me at the best of times and at worst it takes me out of it. Pfft, singing a song while Bayley is getting MURDERED live on air. I love it when crowds are hot for a match even though a lot of humanoids on here think you can only have a obnoxious crowd or a dead silent one with absolutely no in between, and that obviously I'm clamoring for the latter since I hate the former. The thing that MAKES professional wrestling so unique and special as performance art and as a medium is the crowd interaction. The heels getting resounding boos, the crowd cheering on a babyface as he makes his triumphant comeback, the wrestlers playing to the audience. So much of what we see means nothing in a vacuum. The issue is this specific brand of crowd as well as the one NXT crowds bring to the table does not jive with my viewing experience or what I want to see from a crowd. It's so cutesy and tongue in cheek. These wrestlers are supposed to be fighting and telling a story in the ring for real, in a very human drama, so breaking out into songs as was the case for this show, and ironic, goofy, self-aware chants is how the crowds react? It doesn't come across as if they're engaging in show they're seeing the way I'd ideally like to engage in wrestling myself. It's like watching a movie or TV show with your friend and all they can f***ing do is make stupid jokes about things that just happened or reference other things the actors have been in however unrelated that is to let you know how funny and aware they are of things. Some people like that, a lot of people do apparently, but it's not what I'm watching wrestling or anything else for. This is also why I like Japanese crowds the most. Respectful, loud (anyone who says they're not loud has never even watched it) and they'll rally behind a wrestler by chanting his name to encourage him but you're not hearing any KORE WA RESURINGU! or WATASHITACHI WA SUBARASHII! chants breaking out. That's the mindset I approach watching a match with too. They're not putting themselves above the product, as if the only way they can invest themselves into the fight is by letting you know that they totally know how fake this and everything about it is, but they still think it's pretty cool. Because, despite what people claim, that IS how it comes across. When the f*** did cheering and booing become passe? At one point was it no longer sufficient to voice your pleasure or displeasure in that manner? I guess if you just do that then people wouldn't know how totally wise you are to the game. Also, as an aside, I don't care if they paid to be there, like that somehow makes how I feel about it moot. I paid to watch it, jabronis. That means I'm entitled to an opinion too, especially because the crowd is part of the show I paid for. That's another dumb argument I see pop up all too often. "I'm not even mad about it, but I'll beat up anyone who says different!". Sure...that...that makes sense.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,098
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 17, 2015 13:58:20 GMT -5
Only chant I hated was when people chanted 'Botchamania' at Corbin when Apollo COUNTERED a move. It really made me realise that a lot of the crowd weren't into Corbin's heel character as much as they're under the misapprehension that he's a bad wrestler and couldn't wait for him to give them evidence to support this belief, and also that they don't understand wrestling half as much as they think they do if they thought that was a botch. I know his gimmick is basically 'trolling the smarks' but that showed me people were falling for it a bit too much in a way that doesn't help the match or the product. I wish Apollo was more over too but you can't force a crowd to care about a guy. Yeah that was a weird one, I mean, Corbin did kinda botch and fall down, but it was like, 30 seconds before the chant started. Even being there, I had a couple of critiques, the counting ahead was only funny he first time, and I wish we had another chant for Cass, Hey Jude doesn't really work in some of the situations we used it in. And Allie Kitsune, don't worry, it's just not your thing, that's all, it's cool
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Dec 17, 2015 13:59:02 GMT -5
Threatening violence. Lovely.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2015 14:03:30 GMT -5
Meh. You're entitled to your opinion. Here's mine. If it bothers you SO MUCH that you have to make a wall of text to explain yourself and feel justified that it bothers you THAT MUCH, then mute your TV, put the CC on and listen to music. The crowd was enjoying themselves, chanting about what was happening or at least about the wrestlers in the ring. WWE has a lot of problems. Crowds enjoying themselves while staying focused on what's happening in ring is not one of them. All due respect, because I enjoy going back and forth with you on the board, but this is the biggest mountain out of a mole hill I've seen in a long time. See, here's my thing. And again, I'm gonna try not to be sarcastic/insulting so I apologize in advance if my post comes off like that. I'm not trying to just shit on the crowds for doing them. In the initial NXT thread, I made (and I'm going off memory here so I could be wrong) two posts about the crowd. TWO. Anything else was just responding to other people. I didn't tell the crowd to shut the f*** up or to hop out the booth or any of that. I said that I did not like the atmosphere. That's it. I didn't phrase it in the most polite way (which I have since apologized for) but that's essentially all I was trying to say. People on here act...weird when you say that. Look at your response, haha. I know this is a wall of text but if you actually read it, you'd realize I made this thread with the intent of having a civilized discussion on this topic because it seems like most discussion breaks down to claims of crowds "getting themselves over" or people "not enjoying fun." A couple of folks in here are saying that this "isn't a big deal" but what's so funny to me is that these same people are often in the middle of these discussions. Obviously, it's a big enough deal that you felt like defending the crowd's right to do what they want. You cared enough to read that long ass OP and then decided to make a post of your own. I'm not trying to start some kind of crusade against UK crowds or really any kind of crowds. I have an opinion on this particular topic and frankly, it's difficult to express that opinion because of how certain people on here conduct themselves. Really, that goes both ways for this discussion. This really SHOULDN'T be a big deal...but it is. Hence, why I made this thread. Let's get it all out! If you loved the crowd, say so. If you wasn't really feeling them, say so. If you're just kinda indifferent to the whole thing, say so.
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Post by RedSmile on Dec 17, 2015 14:12:23 GMT -5
I tell you what, I really dig that thing where UK fans repeat "one fall" after the ring announcer. I can't even explain why. Hell, I find myself doing it now and then.
I think one of my favorite sounds that a crowd can make is counting the three count with the referee.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Dec 17, 2015 14:13:12 GMT -5
Here's the text I sent my brother while watching the show yesterday.
"I wish those cornballs at NXT would shut the f*** up every now and then though. I get chills seeing how the crowd reacts to guys like Enzo and Cass then I get annoyed when they start their stupid as f*** chanting during the match. Just let the story play out you goofy f***s."
Someone earlier in the thread said it best about yesterday but I think it applies to the regular NXT audience too, they kept it up for so long that they eventually sounded like a pointless drone. By all means, cheer, boo, have some fun, chant a few things here and there, but my god, you don't have to be constantly saying words at the ring. Not everyone is gonna kill everyone else, not every botch deserves a "you f***ed up" chant, and not every chant has to be a full sentence.
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Post by bearned on Dec 17, 2015 14:13:49 GMT -5
I liked the crowd. Honestly can't believe people are putting so much effort into critiquing them....
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 17, 2015 14:20:38 GMT -5
As a member of said "offensive" crowd, I'll just leave this here...
And for whoever it was who asked about the Ramones during the tag title match, it was from the "Hey Ho, Let's Go" bit from "Blitzkrieg Bop"... a chant I started. And as it happened, I was wearing the PROGRESS shirt modelled after the Ramones logo.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 17, 2015 14:21:21 GMT -5
Man, all of you guys must HATE Progress. God forbid a crowd actually have fun. In fact, I think this proves to us we need to move WrestleMania to Corpus Christi I adore whoever decided to adapt the Arsenal v Tottenham chant for Tye Dillinger's topknot haircut. What do you think of topknots? SHIT What do you think of shit? TOPKNOTS Thank you! THAT'S ALRIGHT! Please tell me he also got Party Marty's "You've got shit hair on your head" chant
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 17, 2015 14:24:32 GMT -5
I adore whoever decided to adapt the Arsenal v Tottenham chant for Tye Dillinger's topknot haircut. What do you think of topknots? SHIT What do you think of shit? TOPKNOTS Thank you! THAT'S ALRIGHT! Please tell me he also got Party Marty's "You've got shit hair on your head" chant He did, though that didn't quite catch on as well. There were a lot of PROGRESS-influenced chants and heckles last night, the biggest being counting one ahead of the referee, which we designed at PROGRESS to try and throw off Chris Roberts. It DID throw off Paz in the end.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 17, 2015 14:27:05 GMT -5
Please tell me he also got Party Marty's "You've got shit hair on your head" chant He did, though that didn't quite catch on as well. There were a lot of PROGRESS-influenced chants and heckles last night, the biggest being counting one ahead of the referee, which we designed at PROGRESS to try and throw off Chris Roberts. It DID throw off Paz in the end. Was there an original screw up that caused that bit? I've only been back as far back as Chapter 9 and they were already doing it there
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 14:35:53 GMT -5
So say you've got this lead guitarist in a band. Can play, lots of skills. But they have no sense of dynamics or tastefulness, being a part of the music instead of playing over it. So those great skills go to waste and become an annoying buzz in your ear.
That's how I feel about the NXT crowd most of the time.
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Dave the Dave
Fry's dog Seymour
Knows too much
Posts: 20,784
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 17, 2015 14:42:09 GMT -5
Had you just put "BOOOOOOOOO NXT LONDON CROWD" I would have understood your whole point.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 17, 2015 14:42:32 GMT -5
I threw it on mute like I usually do. Dumb chants and songs are not my scene at all. I'll beat up whoever tells me to lighten up or that I hate fun or whatever, too. On mommas, we will catch fade in the parking lot. It has never made anyone look not stupid, I promise you. It's just not my idea of this nebulous concept of "fun" and does nothing for me. I'm not even mad about it or anything. I simply don't like it. It does not entertain me or add to the show for me at the best of times and at worst it takes me out of it. Pfft, singing a song while Bayley is getting MURDERED live on air. I love it when crowds are hot for a match even though a lot of humanoids on here think you can only have a obnoxious crowd or a dead silent one with absolutely no in between, and that obviously I'm clamoring for the latter since I hate the former. The thing that MAKES professional wrestling so unique and special as performance art and as a medium is the crowd interaction. The heels getting resounding boos, the crowd cheering on a babyface as he makes his triumphant comeback, the wrestlers playing to the audience. So much of what we see means nothing in a vacuum. The issue is this specific brand of crowd as well as the one NXT crowds bring to the table does not jive with my viewing experience or what I want to see from a crowd. It's so cutesy and tongue in cheek. These wrestlers are supposed to be fighting and telling a story in the ring for real, in a very human drama, so breaking out into songs as was the case for this show, and ironic, goofy, self-aware chants is how the crowds react? It doesn't come across as if they're engaging in show they're seeing the way I'd ideally like to engage in wrestling myself. It's like watching a movie or TV show with your friend and all they can f***ing do is make stupid jokes about things that just happened or reference other things the actors have been in however unrelated that is to let you know how funny and aware they are of things. Some people like that, a lot of people do apparently, but it's not what I'm watching wrestling or anything else for. This is also why I like Japanese crowds the most. Respectful, loud (anyone who says they're not loud has never even watched it) and they'll rally behind a wrestler by chanting his name to encourage him but you're not hearing any KORE WA RESURINGU! or WATASHITACHI WA SUBARASHII! chants breaking out. That's the mindset I approach watching a match with too. They're not putting themselves above the product, as if the only way they can invest themselves into the fight is by letting you know that they totally know how fake this and everything about it is, but they still think it's pretty cool. Because, despite what people claim, that IS how it comes across. When the f*** did cheering and booing become passe? At one point was it no longer sufficient to voice your pleasure or displeasure in that manner? I guess if you just do that then people wouldn't know how totally wise you are to the game. Also, as an aside, I don't care if they paid to be there, like that somehow makes how I feel about it moot. I paid to watch it, jabronis. That means I'm entitled to an opinion too, especially because the crowd is part of the show I paid for. That's another dumb argument I see pop up all too often. You're going to beat people up? How big of a boy are ya?
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,590
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 17, 2015 14:42:57 GMT -5
I can understand simply not liking that type of atmosphere but I think some of the accusations made towards the crowd and their motivations can often be a bit off.
Singing songs is the way a British crowd shows support. To me the "stand up if you love Bayley" near the end of her match was one of the purest swells of support I've seen, a whole arena rallying behind their heroine. It wasn't supposed to be cutesy, tongue in cheek or self aware.
In fact I can't remember a show in recent history where the faces got such unanimous positive reactions and the heels so much heat (Owens usually get a lot of cheers which skews things), surely that's how wrestling should be? It's not like they weren't in the moment either, they weren't dancing about looking away from the ring and were cheering and booing even the most basic moves at times. Corbin vs Apollo was the exception to that but something was off about their match from the start which allowed the negative reaction to build.
I also get a warm feeling whenever I see how happy Jordan looks while the crowd are going nuts for him and Gable, I doubt he'd call it disrespectful.
Oh and thanks to all those that have gone out of their way to word things carefully, I often think criticism of rowdy live crowds can stray into flame-bait territory at times so I appreciate it at least, it makes the board a nicer place.
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Post by RedSmile on Dec 17, 2015 14:48:30 GMT -5
I threw it on mute like I usually do. Dumb chants and songs are not my scene at all. I'll beat up whoever tells me to lighten up or that I hate fun or whatever, too. On mommas, we will catch fade in the parking lot. It has never made anyone look not stupid, I promise you. It's just not my idea of this nebulous concept of "fun" and does nothing for me. I'm not even mad about it or anything. I simply don't like it. It does not entertain me or add to the show for me at the best of times and at worst it takes me out of it. Pfft, singing a song while Bayley is getting MURDERED live on air. I love it when crowds are hot for a match even though a lot of humanoids on here think you can only have a obnoxious crowd or a dead silent one with absolutely no in between, and that obviously I'm clamoring for the latter since I hate the former. The thing that MAKES professional wrestling so unique and special as performance art and as a medium is the crowd interaction. The heels getting resounding boos, the crowd cheering on a babyface as he makes his triumphant comeback, the wrestlers playing to the audience. So much of what we see means nothing in a vacuum. The issue is this specific brand of crowd as well as the one NXT crowds bring to the table does not jive with my viewing experience or what I want to see from a crowd. It's so cutesy and tongue in cheek. These wrestlers are supposed to be fighting and telling a story in the ring for real, in a very human drama, so breaking out into songs as was the case for this show, and ironic, goofy, self-aware chants is how the crowds react? It doesn't come across as if they're engaging in show they're seeing the way I'd ideally like to engage in wrestling myself. It's like watching a movie or TV show with your friend and all they can f***ing do is make stupid jokes about things that just happened or reference other things the actors have been in however unrelated that is to let you know how funny and aware they are of things. Some people like that, a lot of people do apparently, but it's not what I'm watching wrestling or anything else for. This is also why I like Japanese crowds the most. Respectful, loud (anyone who says they're not loud has never even watched it) and they'll rally behind a wrestler by chanting his name to encourage him but you're not hearing any KORE WA RESURINGU! or WATASHITACHI WA SUBARASHII! chants breaking out. That's the mindset I approach watching a match with too. They're not putting themselves above the product, as if the only way they can invest themselves into the fight is by letting you know that they totally know how fake this and everything about it is, but they still think it's pretty cool. Because, despite what people claim, that IS how it comes across. When the f*** did cheering and booing become passe? At one point was it no longer sufficient to voice your pleasure or displeasure in that manner? I guess if you just do that then people wouldn't know how totally wise you are to the game. Also, as an aside, I don't care if they paid to be there, like that somehow makes how I feel about it moot. I paid to watch it, jabronis. That means I'm entitled to an opinion too, especially because the crowd is part of the show I paid for. That's another dumb argument I see pop up all too often. Careful. You are gonna work yourself into a shoot.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Dec 17, 2015 15:06:01 GMT -5
It was one night of the year.
One freaking night!
Don't worry we'll be back to the generally dead crowds with the odd Let's go whoever chant on Monday.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,809
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Dec 17, 2015 15:08:13 GMT -5
It was telling that Graves got pissed off with the crowd, and not in a "heel commentator" way during the Enzo/Cass match. He said something like "Enzo is fighting for his life out there and these guys are singing him a song." In other words, f*** the story that these guys are telling in the ring, LOL SINGING IZ FUN.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,853
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Post by 4real on Dec 17, 2015 15:12:36 GMT -5
Here's the text I sent my brother while watching the show yesterday. "I wish those cornballs at NXT would shut the f*** up every now and then though. I get chills seeing how the crowd reacts to guys like Enzo and Cass then I get annoyed when they start their stupid as f*** chanting during the match. Just let the story play out you goofy f***s." Someone earlier in the thread said it best about yesterday but I think it applies to the regular NXT audience too, they kept it up for so long that they eventually sounded like a pointless drone. By all means, cheer, boo, have some fun, chant a few things here and there, but my god, you don't have to be constantly saying words at the ring. Not everyone is gonna kill everyone else, not every botch deserves a "you f***ed up" chant, and not every chant has to be a full sentence. Wow thanks man
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Post by Aboutreika18 on Dec 17, 2015 15:22:28 GMT -5
This might be one of the most divisive topics I've seen on here.
I guess wrestling crowds these days are the equivalent of marmite.
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