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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 16:24:45 GMT -5
Also New Day are not a great example for the argument of beating someone hungry because by New Day's account Vince thought he was gonna have a strong set of babyfaces on his hands and he created something that killed shows dead on sight for like 6 months straight until they eventually made them heels. This wasn't by design, this wasn't Vince utilizing a lesson learned from Rocky Maivia, this was Vince making the exact same mistake as he did with Rocky Maivia. And either way as a narrative device, "bore the shit out of them till they hate you and then make them heels" is just not a fun process as a viewer to go through. No booker should be systematically trying to create something so awful so that your minimum effort down the line looks stellar by comparison.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 14, 2016 16:25:54 GMT -5
What's he achieved lately besides driving away millions of viewers in a ten year period?
He has achieved more then anyone on this site. What is the big deal anyway? I like Breeze, but his gimmick was never main event worthy anyway. Breeze was never going to be anything more then a midcarder. Having the rug pulled out from under your gimmick & push certainly brings him below midcarder. A great midcarder might not be the heartbeat of a wrestling promotion, but they sure are the muscle that do a lot of heavy lifting. Get the guy over in the midcard or tag team first & see what you have before deciding that if someone isn't going to be a world champ, then depush, job & bury. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 16:35:37 GMT -5
What's he achieved lately besides driving away millions of viewers in a ten year period?
He has achieved more then anyone on this site. What is the big deal anyway? I like Breeze, but his gimmick was never main event worthy anyway. Breeze was never going to be anything more then a midcarder. That Daniel Bryan guy, his gimmick's just that he does submissions and he has no mic skills. Sure, he wrestles good, but he'll never be over! |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 14, 2016 16:37:23 GMT -5
Welp, apparently if you enjoyed Tyler Breeze, too f***ing bad. He's not going back to NXT where he was allowed to do what he does best. If you ask some people here, he was never going to be more than a midcarder anyway.
Defending Vince for the sake of disagreeing with other people here is so obnoxious.
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Post by Douglas on Jan 14, 2016 16:40:07 GMT -5
Vinny Mac gonna Vinny Mac.   |
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 14, 2016 16:41:17 GMT -5
Welp, apparently if you enjoyed Tyler Breeze, too f***ing bad. He's not going back to NXT where he was allowed to do what he does best. If you ask some people here, he was never going to be more than a midcarder anyway. Defending Vince for the sake of disagreeing with other people here is so obnoxious. Or they just don't share your opinion in regards to Breeze? |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 14, 2016 16:46:43 GMT -5
Welp, apparently if you enjoyed Tyler Breeze, too f***ing bad. He's not going back to NXT where he was allowed to do what he does best. If you ask some people here, he was never going to be more than a midcarder anyway. Defending Vince for the sake of disagreeing with other people here is so obnoxious. Or they just don't share your opinion in regards to Breeze? Except that's not what it is because the "Tyler's only going to be a midcarder thing" is being used as an attempt to sideswipe the conversation being held by people.
Read the posts at the bottom of the last page. That's exactly what it is. It's creating an argument to crap on people for being sick of Vince's senility in booking.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 14, 2016 16:51:01 GMT -5
Even if he was "just a mid-carder" it doesn't mean he or anyone else in that position needs to be subjected to the stop-start, parity booking, bullshit that has never worked well for anyone. Mr Perfect was a mid-carder. You didn't see him losing every other week. Hell the Barbarian was a mid-carder and he lost once in a blue moon despite never holding any titles. Back when wrestling was booked properly the mid-card wasn't a dumping ground for every Frank Grimes that old man Burns lost interest in after a day. It was a solidly entertaining part of the overall product.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 16:55:43 GMT -5
How was Breeze protected? He was jobbed out on NIGHT ONE of his main roster run.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 14, 2016 16:57:26 GMT -5
How was Breeze protected? He was jobbed out on NIGHT ONE of his main roster run. Dirt sheets gotta keep Trips looking strong, brother. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 17:01:21 GMT -5
How was Breeze protected? He was jobbed out on NIGHT ONE of his main roster run. ? He looked strong and viscous in his main roster debut and he beat Ziggler clean in a few minutes at Survivor Series 1 month later. The loss against Ambrose is, well, Dean Ambrose. Ambrose is the most protected full-time guy on the roster next to Reigns. Breeze losing to him means nothing because the brass favors Ambrose more than most of the roster. Losing against Ambrose these days is like losing against Cena. You know it'll happen unless you're a main eventer who's probably getting a title shot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 17:02:11 GMT -5
You know, everyone arm chair books and thinks they know better than Vince McMahon. Step back and look at what Vince has achieved with WWE. The guy can spot talent and make it grow, as well as greatly punish and de-push to make someone work harder. I suspect Vince didn't see the next Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin/HHH/Undertaker in the Breeze and decided to make him work through the ranks instead of HHH auto push. I understand the rhetoric of the "Everything is just fine with WWE, they know what they are doing, and all of us complainers should shut up and learn to love the product" group, but the problem is is that the numbers don't lie. The WWE has managed to become more fiscally profitable, but there isn't much growth in the fanbase, which is having a hard time replacing the older fans with younger fans. They aren't reaching out to newer audiences and tapping into social commentary, but rather being a reactionary group that has learned to make the most out of what it has, and if you don't like it, tough luck because we're basically the only game in town. And, besides, there have been so many people that, at one point, they were visionaries, but they refused to back off after a period of time and slowly became liabilities to the parties they were once making powerful and successful and ultimately wound up making their group WORSE than when they started. As far as I'm concerned, today's WWE is meant to entertain Vince McMahon first and foremost, and any other enjoyment is purely coincidental. I don't dismiss Vince's accomplishments, but I think that Vince today is out of touch and is content with doing what he feels best, as opposed to doing things that have the best potential for company growth. But, the reason why people get up in arms about this is that Breeze was one of the NXT's most protected guys, and while he wasn't the best, bringing up just to job isn't the best way to debut a guy to the larger WWE audience. |
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jan 14, 2016 17:06:17 GMT -5
Be honest, everyone. Look inside of yourselves. You knew this is exactly how it would happen. We ALL knew. Oh we all knew, we just thought it would at least be a month before Vince got bored of him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 17:06:19 GMT -5
How was Breeze protected? He was jobbed out on NIGHT ONE of his main roster run. ? He looked strong and viscous in his main roster debut and he beat Ziggler clean in a few minutes at Survivor Series 1 month later. The loss against Ambrose is, well, Dean Ambrose. Ambrose is the most protected full-time guy on the roster next to Reigns. Breeze losing to him means nothing because the brass favors Ambrose most than most of the roster. Losing against Ambrose these days is like losing against Cena. You know it'll happen unless you're a main eventer who's probably getting a title shot. Look, I understand that, but I'm just saying that if you're gonna debut a guy, have him spend a few weeks murdering the R-Truths and Damien Sandows of your roster before you give him a program to at least make him look like something before you decide whether or not he has any potential, and realistically, Dean Ambrose has been the worst booked Shield guy easily since they broke up, and they are only now booking him well because I think they have run low on options. Besides, Breeze's second televised WWE match was in the World Heavyweight Championship tournament. That didn't help, IMO. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 14, 2016 17:07:20 GMT -5
Would anyone want to be on Dolphs level? I say that and I like Dolph. The Social Outcasts? Heath Slater has a victory over Dolph and yet they're still pretty much below him. |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 14, 2016 17:08:54 GMT -5
You know, everyone arm chair books and thinks they know better than Vince McMahon. Step back and look at what Vince has achieved with WWE. The guy can spot talent and make it grow, as well as greatly punish and de-push to make someone work harder. I suspect Vince didn't see the next Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin/HHH/Undertaker in the Breeze and decided to make him work through the ranks instead of HHH auto push. I understand the rhetoric of the "Everything is just fine with WWE, they know what they are doing, and all of us complainers should shut up and learn to love the product" group, but the problem is is that the numbers don't lie. The WWE has managed to become more fiscally profitable, but there isn't much growth in the fanbase, which is having a hard time replacing the older fans with younger fans. They aren't reaching out to newer audiences and tapping into social commentary, but rather being a reactionary group that has learned to make the most out of what it has, and if you don't like it, tough luck because we're basically the only game in town. And, besides, there have been so many people that, at one point, they were visionaries, but they refused to back off after a period of time and slowly became liabilities to the parties they were once making powerful and successful and ultimately wound up making their group WORSE than when they started. As far as I'm concerned, today's WWE is meant to entertain Vince McMahon first and foremost, and any other enjoyment is purely coincidental. I don't dismiss Vince's accomplishments, but I think that Vince today is out of touch and is content with doing what he feels best, as opposed to doing things that have the best potential for company growth. But, the reason why people get up in arms about this is that Breeze was one of the NXT's most protected guys, and while he wasn't the best, bringing up just to job isn't the best way to debut a guy to the larger WWE audience. This.
This is what a lot of people are saying. This is what I'm trying to convey. Every single thing here is my problem with the company and especially my frustration with the people here that get up in arms whenever someone dare to question Vince McMahon.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 14, 2016 17:13:52 GMT -5
? He looked strong and viscous in his main roster debut and he beat Ziggler clean in a few minutes at Survivor Series 1 month later. The loss against Ambrose is, well, Dean Ambrose. Ambrose is the most protected full-time guy on the roster next to Reigns. Breeze losing to him means nothing because the brass favors Ambrose most than most of the roster. Losing against Ambrose these days is like losing against Cena. You know it'll happen unless you're a main eventer who's probably getting a title shot. Look, I understand that, but I'm just saying that if you're gonna debut a guy, have him spend a few weeks murdering the R-Truths and Damien Sandows of your roster before you give him a program to at least make him look like something before you decide whether or not he has any potential, and realistically, Dean Ambrose has been the worst booked Shield guy easily since they broke up, and they are only now booking him well because I think they have run low on options. Besides, Breeze's second televised WWE match was in the World Heavyweight Championship tournament. That didn't help, IMO. As "the worst booked Shield guy", Ambrose is still higher in the pecking order than most of the roster. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 17:18:30 GMT -5
? He looked strong and viscous in his main roster debut and he beat Ziggler clean in a few minutes at Survivor Series 1 month later. The loss against Ambrose is, well, Dean Ambrose. Ambrose is the most protected full-time guy on the roster next to Reigns. Breeze losing to him means nothing because the brass favors Ambrose most than most of the roster. Losing against Ambrose these days is like losing against Cena. You know it'll happen unless you're a main eventer who's probably getting a title shot. Look, I understand that, but I'm just saying that if you're gonna debut a guy, have him spend a few weeks murdering the R-Truths and Damien Sandows of your roster before you give him a program to at least make him look like something before you decide whether or not he has any potential, and realistically, Dean Ambrose has been the worst booked Shield guy easily since they broke up, and they are only now booking him well because I think they have run low on options. Besides, Breeze's second televised WWE match was in the World Heavyweight Championship tournament. That didn't help, IMO. First of all, Breeze's first main roster match was against Ambrose, they said it repeatedly during the match. You mentioning murdering the R-Truths and Sandows well, look at Breeze during the Ziggler feud. Immediately after the Ambrose match Breeze went on to defeat Truth (the guy you mentioned) and then next Ryder the following week. Afterwards, he defeated Ziggler. Also like I said, this is Ambrose. Who cares if he's the worst booked Shield guy if he's as protected as he is? Ambrose main evented 5 ppvs since the Shield split, he's main evented ppvs for the WWE title. That's not normal. Let's look at his line-up since even before Breeze joined the roster. - Ambrose goes over clean on Ziggler and Owens in the WWE Championship tournament. - Ambrose loses to Reigns in the finals but he barely lost. Ambrose is one of the only people to kick out of Roman's Spear and Ambrose is still looked at as a beast through the entire thing. Main event. - Ambrose goes over clean on Owens for the IC Championship. - Ambrose wins a steel cage main event match with Sheamus and before the match even started he was hit with a Brogue Kick, beaten up by Sheamus's goons, took a top rope White Noise (another one of Sheamus's 18 different finishers) and he still kicked out. Sheamus is a 4 time WWE Champion. - Ambrose goes over Ziggler and Owens clean in a triple threat IC Championship title defense the very next night on SD. Main event. - Ambrose gets the hot tag and pin in the TTTT special, is the one being lifted up at the end of the broadcast, main event. This is exactly what I mean and this is something people don't get. People always comment on Ambrose being worse than the other 2 career-wise but they miss things such as this. I didn't even mention all the times Ambrose takes a lot of damage and still ends up arriving the next time and how the announcers comment on him even moving. The fact Breeze lost to Ambrose of all people means nothing because looking at Ambrose's accolades it doesn't hold him back. It's obvious. What hurt Breeze wasn't the Ambrose loss, it was the constantly Ziggler losses that happened after he beat Ziggler and then the Titus O'Neil loss. Ambrose doesn't have a thing to do with this. |
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 14, 2016 17:29:31 GMT -5
Even if he was "just a mid-carder" it doesn't mean he or anyone else in that position needs to be subjected to the stop-start, parity booking, bullshit that has never worked well for anyone. Mr Perfect was a mid-carder. You didn't see him losing every other week. Hell the Barbarian was a mid-carder and he lost once in a blue moon despite never holding any titles. Back when wrestling was booked properly the mid-card wasn't a dumping ground for every Frank Grimes that old man Burns lost interest in after a day. It was a solidly entertaining part of the overall product. Back in the days when they had a little something called televised jobber squashes. And there were more jobbers on the roster than just Zack Ryder. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 14, 2016 17:41:47 GMT -5
Breeze wasn't even really that well protected in NXT. He had largely been jobbing to people at the time on NXT and wasn't doing anything of use. Speaking of which, is it just me or does the call up system from NXT make no sense in kayfabe? It's like "Tyler Breeze gets steamrolled by Samoa Joe...then he gets called up." So Joe, the guy that crushed him, is still stuck on NXT while the guy that jobbed is called up?
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