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Post by xCompackx on Jan 14, 2016 21:37:34 GMT -5
He has achieved more then anyone on this site.
What is the big deal anyway?
I like Breeze, but his gimmick was never main event worthy anyway.
Breeze was never going to be anything more then a midcarder.This is bullshit. Any gimmick is main event worthy if you book right and let guys express themselves a bit. Breeze was a main eventer in NXT at one point with the same gimmick and it worked there. You have Wyatt's gimmick who at times is a utility main eventer, it works. Kane's main evented multiple times in 2015. Breeze's gimmick could work. Clearly. Agreed and this might be my biggest pet-peeve regarding wrestling. The mindset that "___ can't be a main eventer" or "___ can't be WWE WHC" is complete bullshit. If you push someone credibly and the fans organically get behind someone, anyone can be a success. Saying "can't" in wrestling means you don't want to try. |
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Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on Jan 14, 2016 21:50:47 GMT -5
Not everyone is going to be a world champion so you have to make midcarders matter too. Holy shit, this! |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 14, 2016 22:27:18 GMT -5
Its not played out.. They keep going BACK to the well with Sheamus multiple times (because of his friendship to HHH) and he keeps failing. They did the same thing with Batista. Buds with HHH, FLOPPED!!!!! Okay, then...explain Orton, Del Rio, Big Show and Kane. Same thing. Even with Orton enjoying tremendous popularity at times, he - like Jericho in ways - is proving the law of diminishing returns. People care about him less and less as time goes on. Del Rio's on a lower playing field at the moment, but I don't think it would shock any of us to hear he or Kane or Show won the title at the next show. Make a little bit of us die inside, maybe, but it wouldn't be shocking; it's almost expected at some point. I think this is a matter of who HHH's friends are and aren't may coincide with what Vince wants, but it's not directing what Vince wants, or does. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 14, 2016 22:30:50 GMT -5
I think the most strained idea behind "Triple H is the one giving Sheamus these title runs" is the implication that somewhere, Vince is saying, "Hunter, as you know, the only way that I can achieve orgasm is when Roman Reigns looks strong, but I think we should halt the ascension of my chosen champion to instead give one of your close friends a title run. How about that Irish fellow who spotted you a few years ago? Do you think he's ready for big time?"
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 14, 2016 22:32:10 GMT -5
This is bullshit. Any gimmick is main event worthy if you book right and let guys express themselves a bit. Breeze was a main eventer in NXT at one point with the same gimmick and it worked there. You have Wyatt's gimmick who at times is a utility main eventer, it works. Kane's main evented multiple times in 2015. Breeze's gimmick could work. Clearly. Agreed and this might be my biggest pet-peeve regarding wrestling. The mindset that "___ can't be a main eventer" or "___ can't be WWE WHC" is complete bullshit. If you push someone credibly and the fans organically get behind someone, anyone can be a success. Saying "can't" in wrestling means you don't want to try. Exactly. Literally one of the biggest, longest lasting most revered gimmicks in pro wrestling history is a f***ing wrestling zombie. A wrestling. Zombie. No, you know what, not JUST a wrestling zombie, but an black magic wielding wrestling zombie. And no one questions his cred. Try harder, WWE. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 14, 2016 22:40:05 GMT -5
Gotta be honest, as soon as I finally saw Breeze, I knew he was in for a struggle. He looks like a very slightly less-rodent-ish version of Christian with better hair and perpetual duck-face. That couldn't have gone over well with Vince.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 14, 2016 22:44:44 GMT -5
You know, everyone arm chair books and thinks they know better than Vince McMahon. Step back and look at what Vince has achieved with WWE. The guy can spot talent and make it grow, as well as greatly punish and de-push to make someone work harder. I suspect Vince didn't see the next Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin/HHH/Undertaker in the Breeze and decided to make him work through the ranks instead of HHH auto push. Pushing someone one week and then just dropping then for no reason after bringing then.Anyone could tell it is a bad idea, |
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Post by darkjourney on Jan 14, 2016 22:46:19 GMT -5
Lets be honest.. Does anyone see a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little selfie stick attached to a cell phone warrants a big push?? Gimme a break. The whole crappy gimmick is a channel changer not a great heel.
And he isn't even entertaining. At least Fandango and his goofy dancing was entertaining for a while.
If Breeze wants a big push, he needs a new gimmick.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jan 14, 2016 22:46:47 GMT -5
One big problem is he was brought in during an angle that lost steam, but continued on for a few months for no real reason.
But, at the same time, let's look at NXT. When the Tyler Breeze gimmick started, people shit on it. The second he did an interview sounding like Zoolander, people figured he'd be CJ Parker in no time. But the thing is.... he's damn good in the ring. He kept having great matches with everyone they put him against. Eventually, his gimmick was just a fallback and not what made him what he was. If they needed a reason to feud, he could call someone an uggo and decide he hates them. But, other than that... it was just two wrestlers wrestling and that's what got him respect.
Problem is, on the main roster, he hasn't had an opportunity to have just good matches and let his work speak for itself... plus, with no real time to do so, he gets really lost in the shuffle. I still think he has the potential to be on the level of a Curt Hennig, but he just needs a proper showcase for it.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 14, 2016 22:49:44 GMT -5
Lets be honest.. Does anyone see a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little selfie stick attached to a cell phone warrants to big push?? Gimme a break Not to beat this drum again, but does anyone see a zombie cowboy wrestler warranting a big push? Or his thought to be dead, but actually survived and burnt to a crisp(but not really, he's just crazy and THINKS he is) little brother? How about a male gigolo that dances around for his female manager? Or THAT guy's truck driving bodyguard? Or a dopey white rapper with a silly hand gesture from the mean streets of.....West Newbury, MS? It's easy to mock something and declare it unworkable when you boil it down to it's simplest premise. But when you actually watch what Tyler Breeze does with the gimmick....that dude's something special, and WWE and Vince are morons if they can't see that. Also, the BIGGEST star in the early era of televised wrestling was, as you would put it "a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little perfume spritzer". |
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Post by xCompackx on Jan 14, 2016 22:58:43 GMT -5
Lets be honest.. Does anyone see a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little selfie stick attached to a cell phone warrants to big push?? Gimme a break Not to beat this drum again, but does anyone see a zombie cowboy wrestler warranting a big push? Or his thought to be dead, but actually survived and burnt to a crisp(but not really, he's just crazy and THINKS he is) little brother? How about a male gigolo that dances around for his female manager? Or THAT guy's truck driving bodyguard? Or a dopey white rapper with a silly hand gesture from the mean streets of.....West Newbury, MS? It's easy to mock something and declare it unworkable when you boil it down to it's simplest premise. But when you actually watch what Tyler Breeze does with the gimmick....that dude's something special, and WWE and Vince are morons if they can't see that. Also, the BIGGEST star in the early era of televised wrestling was, as you would put it "a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little perfume spritzer". Even if you do boil it down to the simplest premise, "cocky heel who thinks he's the cutest/best/etc. and thinks everyone else is ugly" shouldn't be a hard concept to push. The fact that Vince (allegedly) can't grasp a pretty basic character in wrestling is kind of stunning. |
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Post by Dub H on Jan 14, 2016 23:01:20 GMT -5
Gotta be honest, as soon as I finally saw Breeze, I knew he was in for a struggle. He looks like a very slightly less-rodent-ish version of Christian with better hair and perpetual duck-face. That couldn't have gone over well with Vince. I didn't even bother getting excited because i knew they would just do something stupid with him I wasn't wrong |
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 14, 2016 23:01:33 GMT -5
You know, everyone arm chair books and thinks they know better than Vince McMahon. Step back and look at what Vince has achieved with WWE. The guy can spot talent and make it grow, as well as greatly punish and de-push to make someone work harder. I suspect Vince didn't see the next Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin/HHH/Undertaker in the Breeze and decided to make him work through the ranks instead of HHH auto push. I don't accept that premise AT ALL. I watched pro wrestling forever until the WWE drove me to quit them a little over two years ago (basically from 1983 to 2013). During most of that time, the standard way to give an initial push is to put the guy out there against local men and jobbers to the stars and have him WIN for a short stretch, both to give him time to establish his character with the fans and also to see if he can catch on with the fans. If he doesn't, then he starts losing and moving down the card. It worked forever. Hell, it still worked when they reintroduced Skip Sheffield as Ryback. Even when it doesn't work (think Kizarny), because you only had the guy beat locals and JTTS guys there is no real harm done. It's a time honored tradition because it freaking works. Why give up on a guy after his first match? I mean, at least he got his first match, so that's nice. Not everyone even gets that anymore (I need remind me the name of the guy that got released after his only appearance being a pretaped promo about the Undertaker to use him as an example). |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 14, 2016 23:03:08 GMT -5
Not to beat this drum again, but does anyone see a zombie cowboy wrestler warranting a big push? Or his thought to be dead, but actually survived and burnt to a crisp(but not really, he's just crazy and THINKS he is) little brother? How about a male gigolo that dances around for his female manager? Or THAT guy's truck driving bodyguard? Or a dopey white rapper with a silly hand gesture from the mean streets of.....West Newbury, MS? It's easy to mock something and declare it unworkable when you boil it down to it's simplest premise. But when you actually watch what Tyler Breeze does with the gimmick....that dude's something special, and WWE and Vince are morons if they can't see that. Also, the BIGGEST star in the early era of televised wrestling was, as you would put it "a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little perfume spritzer". Even if you do boil it down to the simplest premise, "cocky heel who thinks he's the cutest/best/etc. and thinks everyone else is ugly" shouldn't be a hard concept to push. The fact that Vince (allegedly) can't grasp a pretty basic character in wrestling is kind of stunning. Don't think it's a matter of "can't" as much as it's just "doesn't want to" |
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 14, 2016 23:20:29 GMT -5
Not to beat this drum again, but does anyone see a zombie cowboy wrestler warranting a big push? Or his thought to be dead, but actually survived and burnt to a crisp(but not really, he's just crazy and THINKS he is) little brother? How about a male gigolo that dances around for his female manager? Or THAT guy's truck driving bodyguard? Or a dopey white rapper with a silly hand gesture from the mean streets of.....West Newbury, MS? It's easy to mock something and declare it unworkable when you boil it down to it's simplest premise. But when you actually watch what Tyler Breeze does with the gimmick....that dude's something special, and WWE and Vince are morons if they can't see that. Also, the BIGGEST star in the early era of televised wrestling was, as you would put it "a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little perfume spritzer". Even if you do boil it down to the simplest premise, "cocky heel who thinks he's the cutest/best/etc. and thinks everyone else is ugly" shouldn't be a hard concept to push. The fact that Vince (allegedly) can't grasp a pretty basic character in wrestling is kind of stunning. It's not that he CAN'T grasp the concept. Hell, he turned a former world champion into a model when he needed a singles push after his tag team was broken up and Rick "The Model" Martel was pushed fairly hard there for a while. HBK also had shades of that gimmick when he became a singles guy. There actually are plenty of examples of others that had something like that, though those two are the most successful that come to mind right now. |
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Post by "Mr Wonderdick" Dick Dastardly on Jan 14, 2016 23:26:51 GMT -5
The Triple H's workout buddy shtick is played out. Vince is the fan of Sheamus before anyone else. You're wrong about Triple H. The sellouts of NXT shows are proof enough that making a statement like "The sooner people wake to this is better" is obnoxious and there's far more evidence proving why you're incorrect, trying to rile up people like the ones who tried the "Tyler Breeze is never going to main event anyway" argument. Its not played out.. They keep going BACK to the well with Sheamus multiple times (because of his friendship to HHH) and he keeps failing. They did the same thing with Batista. Buds with HHH, FLOPPED!!!!! NXT is a developmental system.. Its not the big leagues. . Vince can also put himself on TV when things are down and he can stimulate business back up.. Again, HHH doesn't have this ability.. Vince draws an on air screen personality.. HHH/Stephanie don't. Ummm...Batista was one of the most over wrestlers of the last 11 years or so. He didn't flop. Injuries hurt his momentum, but saying he "flopped" is laughable and inaccurate. By your theory of "OMG Sheamus only gets pushed, because he's a workout buddy of Triple H!!", does that mean Del Rio is a Triple H workout buddy? Kevin Owens has been one of his prized signings, don't you think he wants to get him to the top of the card if he's so worried about pushing guys he likes? Was Tensai a workout buddy of Triple H since he debuted with a big push? Was Lashley a Triple H workout buddy? What about Mr. Kennedy? The Great Khali? |
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Post by darkjourney on Jan 14, 2016 23:36:43 GMT -5
Its not played out.. They keep going BACK to the well with Sheamus multiple times (because of his friendship to HHH) and he keeps failing. They did the same thing with Batista. Buds with HHH, FLOPPED!!!!! NXT is a developmental system.. Its not the big leagues. . Vince can also put himself on TV when things are down and he can stimulate business back up.. Again, HHH doesn't have this ability.. Vince draws an on air screen personality.. HHH/Stephanie don't. Ummm...Batista was one of the most over wrestlers of the last 11 years or so. He didn't flop. Injuries hurt his momentum, but saying he "flopped" is laughable and inaccurate. By your theory of "OMG Sheamus only gets pushed, because he's a workout buddy of Triple H!!", does that mean Del Rio is a Triple H workout buddy? Kevin Owens has been one of his prized signings, don't you think he wants to get him to the top of the card if he's so worried about pushing guys he likes? Was Tensai a workout buddy of Triple H since he debuted with a big push? Was Lashley a Triple H workout buddy? What about Mr. Kennedy? The Great Khali? Batista's last run completely flopped. I can see the reason for pushing ADR as hes probably the biggest mexican star today. Even if he won't draw in the states.. Hes always going to draw in places of Texas and obviously when they make their Mexico tour. Tensai wasn't a world champ, Khali draws in the middle east. And neither were exactly MEGA-pushed countless times like SHeamus. Mr. Kennedy was around for a cup of coffee. Track record, Vince knows more about creating SUPERstars like I said than HHH does. Until HHH proves he can create just one we'll see. So far he hasn't. Vince has the track record in creating the mega stars that can appeal more to the masses. Even if he doesn't create one all the time.. Hes made quite a few.. It remains to be seen if HHH will even create ONE |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 14, 2016 23:40:07 GMT -5
Its not played out.. They keep going BACK to the well with Sheamus multiple times (because of his friendship to HHH) and he keeps failing. They did the same thing with Batista. Buds with HHH, FLOPPED!!!!! NXT is a developmental system.. Its not the big leagues. . Vince can also put himself on TV when things are down and he can stimulate business back up.. Again, HHH doesn't have this ability.. Vince draws an on air screen personality.. HHH/Stephanie don't. Ummm...Batista was one of the most over wrestlers of the last 11 years or so. He didn't flop. Injuries hurt his momentum, but saying he "flopped" is laughable and inaccurate. By your theory of "OMG Sheamus only gets pushed, because he's a workout buddy of Triple H!!", does that mean Del Rio is a Triple H workout buddy? Kevin Owens has been one of his prized signings, don't you think he wants to get him to the top of the card if he's so worried about pushing guys he likes? Was Tensai a workout buddy of Triple H since he debuted with a big push? Was Lashley a Triple H workout buddy? What about Mr. Kennedy? The Great Khali? Actually, Triple H and Khali were big fans of doing coloring books together. That push is because they were coloring buddies. |
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Post by "Mr Wonderdick" Dick Dastardly on Jan 14, 2016 23:41:25 GMT -5
Ummm...Batista was one of the most over wrestlers of the last 11 years or so. He didn't flop. Injuries hurt his momentum, but saying he "flopped" is laughable and inaccurate. By your theory of "OMG Sheamus only gets pushed, because he's a workout buddy of Triple H!!", does that mean Del Rio is a Triple H workout buddy? Kevin Owens has been one of his prized signings, don't you think he wants to get him to the top of the card if he's so worried about pushing guys he likes? Was Tensai a workout buddy of Triple H since he debuted with a big push? Was Lashley a Triple H workout buddy? What about Mr. Kennedy? The Great Khali? Batista's last run completely flopped. I can see the reason for pushing ADR as hes probably the biggest mexican star today. Even if he won't draw in the states.. Hes always going to draw in places of Texas and obviously when they make their Mexico tour. Tensai wasn't a world champ, Khali draws in the middle east. And neither were exactly MEGA-pushed countless times like SHeamus. Mr. Kennedy was around for a cup of coffee. Del Rio has still flopped every time he's been pushed. Tensai came in with a big push, beating both CM Punk and John Cena. Kennedy was also pushed pretty heavily until he ended up flaming out. If you say Khali drew because he's from India and Del Rio drew because he's Mexican, Sheamus draws because he's Irish. |
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Sicho100
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Post by Sicho100 on Jan 14, 2016 23:44:35 GMT -5
One doesn't really need to question HHH's inability to identify talent.. Look no further than the multiple world titles for Sheamus. Its obvious HHH doesn't have the idea for a superstar like Vince does/did. When Vince is finally gone, there will be a ton of guys getting pushed who don't deserve to.. And the guys not getting pushed will be left on the back burner in favor of guys HHH sees something in that can draw, or have star power. Where HHH will ultimately full short of Vince is the fact Vince knows how to create SUPERstars. HHH will only know how to create stars. HHH is completely unequipped to fill VInce's shoes.. The sooner people wake up to this the better. The Triple H's workout buddy shtick is played out. Vince is the fan of Sheamus before anyone else. You're wrong about Triple H. The sellouts of NXT shows are proof enough that making a statement like "The sooner people wake to this is better" is obnoxious and there's far more evidence proving why you're incorrect, trying to rile up people like the ones who tried the "Tyler Breeze is never going to main event anyway" argument. Also, the idea that Vince knows how to create SUPERstars is a bit flimsy, to say the least. How did Vince build his roster in the '80s? He went around to every territory, and stole all their top guys. He didn't make stars, he bought them. And that included a certain guy known as Hulk Hogan. Hulkamania was running wild...in the AWA. But an aging promoter, rather than pushing the guy the fans latched on to, was stuck in his ways, relying instead on older veterans and his own family members (hmm. Sounds familiar) to carry the company. So, Vince came a-calling, and that blonde bomber decided to go where he would be used better. Similarly, in the Attitude Era, how did Vince make stars? Was it his creative genius? No - he got out of the way. He was getting his ass kicked, and went to his writers and talent and said, "Look, I'm lost. You guys figure this out." And so the Vince creation of Rocky Maivia turned into The Rock. Vince's idea of The Ringmaster was scrapped in favor of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. Even the current guy...John Something? He, famously, was on the chopping block because he just couldn't get over. Then he raps one day, and the rest is history. Where in any of that is Vince knowing how to create SUPERstars? |
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