Backstage news on Breeze's main roster push

[darkjourney]

The difference is most of them all just had one run. . Why are Tenzai, Khali, etc. being compared to a guy that keeps getting world title main event runs every year or every other year?. Sheamus has been pushed time and time again to the world title and has WHAT to show for it? ADR could be a big star if he was utilized more properly. Sheamus is nothing but a mid carder with consistent pushes despite not being over face or heel.

ADR has potential to be a big over name in the U.S but they can't see to find the right direction for him. You could put Sheamus in any scenario under any gimmick and the guy will NEVER Be over.

[darkjourney]

Jan 14, 2016 23:44:35 GMT -5 Sicho100 said:

Jan 14, 2016 20:16:32 GMT -5 The Heartbreak TWERK said:

The Triple H's workout buddy shtick is played out. Vince is the fan of Sheamus before anyone else.

You're wrong about Triple H. The sellouts of NXT shows are proof enough that making a statement like "The sooner people wake to this is better" is obnoxious and there's far more evidence proving why you're incorrect, trying to rile up people like the ones who tried the "Tyler Breeze is never going to main event anyway" argument.

Also, the idea that Vince knows how to create SUPERstars is a bit flimsy, to say the least. How did Vince build his roster in the '80s? He went around to every territory, and stole all their top guys. He didn't make stars, he bought them. And that included a certain guy known as Hulk Hogan. Hulkamania was running wild...in the AWA. But an aging promoter, rather than pushing the guy the fans latched on to, was stuck in his ways, relying instead on older veterans and his own family members (hmm. Sounds familiar) to carry the company. So, Vince came a-calling, and that blonde bomber decided to go where he would be used better.

Similarly, in the Attitude Era, how did Vince make stars? Was it his creative genius? No - he got out of the way. He was getting his ass kicked, and went to his writers and talent and said, "Look, I'm lost. You guys figure this out." And so the Vince creation of Rocky Maivia turned into The Rock. Vince's idea of The Ringmaster was scrapped in favor of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

Even the current guy...John Something? He, famously, was on the chopping block because he just couldn't get over. Then he raps one day, and the rest is history.

Where in any of that is Vince knowing how to create SUPERstars?

Vince made Hogan a household name.. Gagne did not. He made the Ultimate Warrior a household name. He made Austin/Rock/Foley all time greats. He made Cena over huge with the mainstream audience. Wake me up when HHH even SNIFFS to accomplishing these types of feat that Vince did. Vince identifies talent and put them in scenarios to get them over huge.


We'll see how many household names HHH creates. For everyone saying HHH has his pulse on the wrestling business, sooner or later hes gonna have to PROVE these things on a big stage. (Not a development system). Its a big difference. There is much more pressure being in Vince's shoes than HHH's. You have stockholders to answer to, growing the business and attracting the casual fan.. Not just appealing to us fans that will watch wrestling regardless.

[Sicho100]

Jan 14, 2016 23:51:03 GMT -5 darkjourney said:

Jan 14, 2016 23:44:35 GMT -5 Sicho100 said:

Also, the idea that Vince knows how to create SUPERstars is a bit flimsy, to say the least. How did Vince build his roster in the '80s? He went around to every territory, and stole all their top guys. He didn't make stars, he bought them. And that included a certain guy known as Hulk Hogan. Hulkamania was running wild...in the AWA. But an aging promoter, rather than pushing the guy the fans latched on to, was stuck in his ways, relying instead on older veterans and his own family members (hmm. Sounds familiar) to carry the company. So, Vince came a-calling, and that blonde bomber decided to go where he would be used better.

Similarly, in the Attitude Era, how did Vince make stars? Was it his creative genius? No - he got out of the way. He was getting his ass kicked, and went to his writers and talent and said, "Look, I'm lost. You guys figure this out." And so the Vince creation of Rocky Maivia turned into The Rock. Vince's idea of The Ringmaster was scrapped in favor of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

Even the current guy...John Something? He, famously, was on the chopping block because he just couldn't get over. Then he raps one day, and the rest is history.

Where in any of that is Vince knowing how to create SUPERstars?

Vince made Hogan a household name.. Gagne did not. He made the Ultimate Warrior a household name. He made Austin/Rock/Foley all time greats. Wake me up when HHH even SNIFFS to accomplishing these types of feat that Vince did. Vince identifies talent and put them in scenarios to get them over huge.

...
...
You, uh, you know Vince is the one that owns the promotion, right? Everything - EVERYTHING - comes down to Vince (even Sheamus as champion, as shocking as that may seem to you). Based on your argument, it is literally impossible for HHH to be a better booker than Vince, at least until Vince dies and HHH takes over. Because before then, HHH doesn't have a chance to be responsible for anyone getting over. And NXT CAN'T make anyone a household name - it's the developmental program that is only available to diehards. It's a bit difficult to make casuals aware of someone when only diehards have access to the thing they are on.

To the extent that HHH can get someone over - that is, in NXT - he very much has "identifie[d] talent and put them in scenarios to get them over huge." Just look at all those pictures he has with the new talent that he signs. And look at how well they have been doing while they have HHH as the guy most responsible for putting them in scenarios for them to succeed. In fact, then compare that to how many of those same people fare when Vince is the one most responsible for putting them in scenarios for them to succeed. The guy that inspired this thread - Tyler Breeze - was made to be a big deal in NXT and presented as a star. And he got over. He gets to the main roster, and he is presented as just another body. That's about as good an experiment as you can get here. And HHH succeeded, whereas Vince has failed.

[Captain & Diet]

You guys it all come down to two words: Bonnie f***ing Hammer.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jan 14, 2016 22:46:19 GMT -5 darkjourney said:

Lets be honest.. Does anyone see a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little selfie stick attached to a cell phone warrants a big push?? Gimme a break. The whole crappy gimmick is a channel changer not a great heel.

And he isn't even entertaining. At least Fandango and his goofy dancing was entertaining for a while.


If Breeze wants a big push, he needs a new gimmick.

You do realize that "vain, appearance-obsessed heel" is so old hat a wrestling concept that it predates television, right? And that, when booked like you care, it can not only produce heat, but has been responsible for some of the biggest and most successful heels in wrestling history.

[Dr. T is an alien]

Jan 15, 2016 1:26:39 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jan 14, 2016 22:46:19 GMT -5 darkjourney said:

Lets be honest.. Does anyone see a wussy looking wrestler with a stupid little selfie stick attached to a cell phone warrants a big push?? Gimme a break. The whole crappy gimmick is a channel changer not a great heel.

And he isn't even entertaining. At least Fandango and his goofy dancing was entertaining for a while.


If Breeze wants a big push, he needs a new gimmick.

You do realize that "vain, appearance-obsessed heel" is so old hat a wrestling concept that it predates television, right? And that, when booked like you care, it can not only produce heat, but has been responsible for some of the biggest and most successful heels in wrestling history.

You really could have summed it up with one name: Gorgeous George.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Vince is not nearly as bad as some make it. At the same time Vince isn't a genius. Vince is probably the greatest wrestling promoter in history and his success does speak for itself and he built both WWF/E and Wrestlemania into global brands.

Any gimmick that succeeds in WWE will succeed because Vince is allowing it, even if it isn't the original design or conceived idea. At the same time any failure lies on Vince as he wasn't able to have the pieces in place to allow that person to be successful (not counting guys that do stupid things and kill their own career).

Anyone saying that Vince never created stars is wrong just as anyone saying that Vince is 100% responsible for all of WWE's success is wrong also.

Once common denominator in both The Shield and New Day is that both were more than willing to speak up on issues. As an example, on Talk is Jericho New Day mentioned that they shot down some ideas Vince had (including the original theme song). You have to be willing to do that and it appears that Vince will be more than willing to push guys that speak up. One does have to wonder if Breeze has spoken up or if he is simply being passive.

I like Breeze and think he can be a tremendous asset for the company long term. I also don't think he is in a bad place right now. Now if he is still jobbing on Superstars in a year I will consider him a misused talent.

At the end of the day I don't think any of us could run WWE better than Vince has. The job is way more complicated than I would imagine any of us know.

[trollrogue]

Summer Rae already threatened Rusev's career and setback Ziggler's enough to erase his Survivor Series miracle, and completely knock them both out of the main event. Her inclusion in Tyler Breeze's VIP Lounge is an albatross he should get rid of.

After all if he loves his own reflection why does he need a chick??

Set up some squash matches against the Favetastic Four (the guys who united to face the Social Outcasts this past Smackdown) and I think Breeze is the hottest midcard heel of 2016.

[Deleted]

I couldn't find that WCW report sadly.

I love Tyler. Fine hand, can put on solid matches, would really help fill the Midcard. NXT has noticeably declined in that area since his call up in my opinion. I think he'll be okay, just needs more time I suppose. Too many guys are rushed. Look at Ziggler. Dude has won what, two World Championships? And after all that, will he truly be remembered? Are people really going to talk about Dolph Ziggler in the same breath as guys like Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog, Piper and etc? Dudes who never even held the World Title? Of course not.

Breeze just debuted. I think he'll find his way in due time.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Jan 14, 2016 23:44:35 GMT -5 Sicho100 said:

Jan 14, 2016 20:16:32 GMT -5 The Heartbreak TWERK said:

The Triple H's workout buddy shtick is played out. Vince is the fan of Sheamus before anyone else.

You're wrong about Triple H. The sellouts of NXT shows are proof enough that making a statement like "The sooner people wake to this is better" is obnoxious and there's far more evidence proving why you're incorrect, trying to rile up people like the ones who tried the "Tyler Breeze is never going to main event anyway" argument.

Also, the idea that Vince knows how to create SUPERstars is a bit flimsy, to say the least. How did Vince build his roster in the '80s? He went around to every territory, and stole all their top guys. He didn't make stars, he bought them. And that included a certain guy known as Hulk Hogan. Hulkamania was running wild...in the AWA. But an aging promoter, rather than pushing the guy the fans latched on to, was stuck in his ways, relying instead on older veterans and his own family members (hmm. Sounds familiar) to carry the company. So, Vince came a-calling, and that blonde bomber decided to go where he would be used better.

Similarly, in the Attitude Era, how did Vince make stars? Was it his creative genius? No - he got out of the way. He was getting his ass kicked, and went to his writers and talent and said, "Look, I'm lost. You guys figure this out." And so the Vince creation of Rocky Maivia turned into The Rock. Vince's idea of The Ringmaster was scrapped in favor of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

Even the current guy...John Something? He, famously, was on the chopping block because he just couldn't get over. Then he raps one day, and the rest is history.

Where in any of that is Vince knowing how to create SUPERstars?

Also, who was the person that heard the rapping and was convinced to push him? Stephanie.

So the biggest star of the last 10 years really comes down to her seeing talent and not Vince.

[Abdullah]

Jan 14, 2016 16:24:45 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

Also New Day are not a great example for the argument of beating someone hungry because by New Day's account Vince thought he was gonna have a strong set of babyfaces on his hands and he created something that killed shows dead on sight for like 6 months straight until they eventually made them heels. This wasn't by design, this wasn't Vince utilizing a lesson learned from Rocky Maivia, this was Vince making the exact same mistake as he did with Rocky Maivia. And either way as a narrative device, "bore the shit out of them till they hate you and then make them heels" is just not a fun process as a viewer to go through. No booker should be systematically trying to create something so awful so that your minimum effort down the line looks stellar by comparison.

Oh, New Day isn't an example of WWE's methods working in the least. I absolutely agree with you; if the post-WM crowd hadn't reacted as they did, who knows where we'd be?

It's just to point out that sometimes we like to call death on a career prematurely. Fans in the arena don't operate like that. They don't say 'this guy has been around for too long so I will no longer react to him.' If Breeze got even a halfway decent angle next week, these past few months likely wouldn't matter. Which is a long way of saying that if this is true, then Vince is wrong. But I'm not worried yet.

What is more harmful is the opposite in my view - when WWE has invested TV time in a performer, a big push, then scales back noticeably. That does serious damage.

[Hit Girl]

Jan 14, 2016 17:29:31 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Jan 14, 2016 16:51:01 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Even if he was "just a mid-carder" it doesn't mean he or anyone else in that position needs to be subjected to the stop-start, parity booking, bullshit that has never worked well for anyone. Mr Perfect was a mid-carder. You didn't see him losing every other week. Hell the Barbarian was a mid-carder and he lost once in a blue moon despite never holding any titles. Back when wrestling was booked properly the mid-card wasn't a dumping ground for every Frank Grimes that old man Burns lost interest in after a day. It was a solidly entertaining part of the overall product.

Back in the days when they had a little something called televised jobber squashes.

And there were more jobbers on the roster than just Zack Ryder.

Well, there's a lesson to be taken from that.

[Ruthless Pessimism]

It's a shame, because the guy IS a good wrestler. I'm not a fan of the gimmick but the dude's good.

But seriously though, was Mister "Selfie Stick" ever really going to do much in the WWE other than maybe an IC/US title run?

[2coldMack is even more baffled]

Jan 15, 2016 12:27:52 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

It's a shame, because the guy IS a good wrestler. I'm not a fan of the gimmick but the dude's good.

But seriously though, was Mister "Selfie Stick" ever really going to do much in the WWE other than maybe an IC/US title run?

Once again "Vain, egotistical, better looking than you" heels have existed, and main evented, for time immemorial. How is this a concept that keeps eluding people?

[The Heartbreak TWERK]

Jan 15, 2016 12:45:17 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Jan 15, 2016 12:27:52 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

It's a shame, because the guy IS a good wrestler. I'm not a fan of the gimmick but the dude's good.

But seriously though, was Mister "Selfie Stick" ever really going to do much in the WWE other than maybe an IC/US title run?

Once again "Vain, egotistical, better looking than you" heels have existed, and main evented, for time immemorial. How is this a concept that keeps eluding people?

Because the 'defend McMahon, no matter what' gimmick demands any argument, regardless of rationality.

[audiencewatching]

They weren't even confident enough to give him the NXT belt. I'm not sure why anyone would assume his main roster call up would have more faith.

[2coldMack is even more baffled]

Jan 15, 2016 13:02:25 GMT -5 audiencewatching said:

They weren't even confident enough to give him the NXT belt. I'm not sure why anyone would assume his main roster call up would have more faith.

Meh, not that I'm making a direct comparison, but Brock Lesnar never held the top belt when he was in developmental, either. Nor did Randy Orton. Just saying, the two things don't necessarily correlate.

[The Heartbreak TWERK]

Jan 15, 2016 13:02:25 GMT -5 audiencewatching said:

They weren't even confident enough to give him the NXT belt. I'm not sure why anyone would assume his main roster call up would have more faith.

Tyler Breeze was picked to face Liger in his only WWE match ever.

That's an asinine reach in logic.

[Pushed to the Moon]

Ugh look at this tiny little jobber guy who thinks he's better looking than everyone and staring in the mirror. I bet he never goes on to have a decent match in his life!

[Hot Noodle Truck]

I should have become a wrestling journalist. 'Triple H wanted to push _ but Vince didn't want to.' Watch the fans squabble and collect that cash.