riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 2:39:23 GMT -5
Yes, it does. But surely if they decided to take a risk they'd get even more profit and more people interested in the product. I guess that's what I am more or less trying to get at with my original post without it being so wordy. I feel if they just said "Okay, our formula has been successful and we've made enough money. Let's take it up a notch and give it that extra push." Like I feel in Civil War {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Rhodey should've died. It would've made Civil War actually mean something, along with Stark finding out Cap hid the death of his parents, and adding that tension would've made their fight even more tragic and intense. Then you would have had the flack from comic book fans because that didn't even happen in the original comics. You're right it didn't. But you had those same fans who were complaining that the one death that is known from the comics didn't happen in the movie either. So in the end it was a damned if you do and damned if you don't deal.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 2:45:03 GMT -5
Then you would have had the flack from comic book fans because that didn't even happen in the original comics. You're right it didn't. But you had those same fans who were complaining that the one death that is known from the comics didn't happen in the movie either. So in the end it was a damned if you do and damned if you don't deal. I don't know why anyone was expecting them to kill Cap. I absolutely knew that wasn't happening. I do believe that at least the first part of Infinity War's ending is going to be dark. I think it's going to be Tony's dream from AoU in some way. Because the first part of Infinity War CAN be that dark because they have the ultra fixit in the gauntlet.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 26, 2016 8:54:19 GMT -5
If this is a DC vs. Marvel question It's not really a matter of light vs. darkness. It's a matter of being true to the spirit of the characters which the DC universe has failed at massively. Superman in Man of Steel and Batman V Superman is an asshole that gives up on humanity. Civil War and Winter Soldier are serious movies but Captain America is still in the middle of it as his usual Boy Scout self. Bingo. When I go see any superhero or comic book movie, I'm just looking for a good story with characters I can root for. I can root for Steve trying to save his friend and T'Challa on his quest to avenge his father, and likewise with the Guardians of the Galaxy. With Bruce and Clark in Dawn of Justice, I thought their motivations were weak and I felt they were more consumed with their rivalry than protecting people. Because of that, I didn't find them likable and I couldn't enjoy the movie. And that's not out of a sense of "they bastardized my childhood"- even if they were completely new characters, I wouldn't like them. Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are two of Marvel's darkest projects yet, and I thought those were great. I'll admit I'm more partial towards somewhat lighter superhero stories, but that's partly because I grew up as a 90's kid and I got burnt out on excessive grit years ago. My dislike of BvS doesn't have much to do with its tone, I just think the plot is cruddy and the cast is unappealing. If it was more lighthearted, I'm still not sure if I could get into it.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Nov 26, 2016 9:32:31 GMT -5
Dammit, what's the question? The question is "Does Marvel play it too safe?" Or really the question should be "Is Marvel afraid to take risks with their characters, storylines, and go into darker territory?" I know one concern that I've seen amongst some comic book circles is some fans are concerned that they're going to water down Thanos and make Infinity War too kid friendly. There is speculation that Infinity War will be the dark Marvel movie we've all been waiting for. That we will see some deaths at the hands of Thanos to really build him up and put him over. And if that's the case, if Marvel has been playing the long game, then good for them.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 9:53:23 GMT -5
The question is "Does Marvel play it too safe?" Or really the question should be "Is Marvel afraid to take risks with their characters, storylines, and go into darker territory?" I know one concern that I've seen amongst some comic book circles is some fans are concerned that they're going to water down Thanos and make Infinity War too kid friendly. There is speculation that Infinity War will be the dark Marvel movie we've all been waiting for. That we will see some deaths at the hands of Thanos to really build him up and put him over. And if that's the case, if Marvel has been playing the long game, then good for them. This is exactly what I think is going to happen...they have pretty much the Marvel version of a reset button in the gauntlet so it really doesn't matter...they can end part one with the entire team dead.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 15:44:36 GMT -5
I guess from my point of view I've always been a fan of stories that utilize the phrase "It gets worse before it gets any better." and I'd like to see Marvel take that road. A friend I was having this very discussion with suggested that he could see Black Panther being darker, more intense, and serious because of it taking place in Wakanda and its isolation from the rest of the world essentially.
To be fair I am not saying I want everything to be overly serious and completely devoid of humor. I just wish that Marvel would take a lot more risks with their film properties and move away from the usual formula.
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Post by Psy on Nov 26, 2016 15:51:10 GMT -5
I don't see a need for "dark" in comic book movies, aside from those with the darkness in the source material. One of the major gripes I've heard the most about the DC movies is that they are "too dark". I think Marvel strikes a good balance already, and that they could go a bit in either direction and still be fine.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 15:58:03 GMT -5
I guess from my point of view I've always been a fan of stories that utilize the phrase "It gets worse before it gets any better." and I'd like to see Marvel take that road. A friend I was having this very discussion with suggested that he could see Black Panther being darker, more intense, and serious because of it taking place in Wakanda and its isolation from the rest of the world essentially. To be fair I am not saying I want everything to be overly serious and completely devoid of humor. I just wish that Marvel would take a lot more risks with their film properties and move away from the usual formula. I think Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok and GOTG vol.2 are going to be what you want...it's totally gonna get worse before it gets better. My theory is Infinity War part one ends with most or all of the Avengers dead and then the light at the end of the tunnel is the Milano showing up. In Disney's defense they pretty much have a guaranteed billon dollar formula going.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 16:00:18 GMT -5
I don't see a need for "dark" in comic book movies, aside from those with the darkness in the source material. One of the major gripes I've heard the most about the DC movies is that they are "too dark". I think Marvel strikes a good balance already, and that they could go a bit in either direction and still be fine. Honestly I think unless Justice League and Wonder Woman restore some goodwill with fans the DC movie franchise is in deep shit.
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Post by wildojinx on Nov 26, 2016 16:00:19 GMT -5
Just came across a spoiler for how Infinity War is going to end: {Spoiler}{Spoiler} ![](http://cbr3.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2010/06/thanosofftojail.JPG?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=600&h=281&fit=crop)
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 16:01:29 GMT -5
I guess from my point of view I've always been a fan of stories that utilize the phrase "It gets worse before it gets any better." and I'd like to see Marvel take that road. A friend I was having this very discussion with suggested that he could see Black Panther being darker, more intense, and serious because of it taking place in Wakanda and its isolation from the rest of the world essentially. To be fair I am not saying I want everything to be overly serious and completely devoid of humor. I just wish that Marvel would take a lot more risks with their film properties and move away from the usual formula. I think Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok and GOTG vol.2 are going to be what you want...it's totally gonna get worse before it gets better. My theory is Infinity War part one ends with most or all of the Avengers dead and then the light at the end of the tunnel is the Milano showing up. In Disney's defense they pretty much have a guaranteed billon dollar formula going. I don't know if you heard or not, and of course, he could've been trolling the fanbase by saying this. However, the director of Thor: Ragnarok said that the film is going to be more of a comedic buddy cop rather than it being centered around the end of the world. Of course, given that there's elements of Planet Hulk in the film I'd imagine he was just trolling rather than being serious.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 16:02:20 GMT -5
Just came across a spoiler for how Infinity War is going to end: {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} ![](http://cbr3.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2010/06/thanosofftojail.JPG?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=600&h=281&fit=crop) Seeing this made me think of Reed Richards tricking Magneto with a wooden gun.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 16:04:11 GMT -5
I don't see a need for "dark" in comic book movies, aside from those with the darkness in the source material. One of the major gripes I've heard the most about the DC movies is that they are "too dark". I think Marvel strikes a good balance already, and that they could go a bit in either direction and still be fine. Honestly I think unless Justice League and Wonder Woman restore some goodwill with fans the DC movie franchise is in deep shit. Wonder Woman does look quite good though. And regardless of their reception I thought Man of Steel, Batman vs. Superman, and Suicide Squad was good too. The thing is they already have Shazam, Flash, and an Aquaman film planned as well. I do believe that Justice League will be the test for the DC movie franchise.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 16:05:46 GMT -5
I think Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok and GOTG vol.2 are going to be what you want...it's totally gonna get worse before it gets better. My theory is Infinity War part one ends with most or all of the Avengers dead and then the light at the end of the tunnel is the Milano showing up. In Disney's defense they pretty much have a guaranteed billon dollar formula going. I don't know if you heard or not, and of course, he could've been trolling the fanbase by saying this. However, the director of Thor: Ragnarok said that the film is going to be more of a comedic buddy cop rather than it being centered around the end of the world. Of course, given that there's elements of Planet Hulk in the film I'd imagine he was just trolling rather than being serious. I did see that and I totally think he's trolling. Ragnarok is Asgard's armageddon and Planet Hulk ain't exactly lighthearted either. Though the way they've built Hulk and Thor's relationship I could see that being some of the lighter aspects of the movie.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Nov 26, 2016 16:06:24 GMT -5
Just came across a spoiler for how Infinity War is going to end: {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} ![](http://cbr3.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2010/06/thanosofftojail.JPG?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=600&h=281&fit=crop) Is that the Marvel equivalent to the end of Monty Python's Holy Grail?
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 16:08:01 GMT -5
Honestly I think unless Justice League and Wonder Woman restore some goodwill with fans the DC movie franchise is in deep shit. Wonder Woman does look quite good though. And regardless of their reception I thought Man of Steel, Batman vs. Superman, and Suicide Squad was good too. The thing is they already have Shazam, Flash, and an Aquaman film planned as well. I do believe that Justice League will be the test for the DC movie franchise. WW does look amazing but I've also learned not to trust a DC movie by the trailer. I liked Suicide Squad but it had major issues.
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Post by wildojinx on Nov 26, 2016 16:08:08 GMT -5
Like someone else said, i'm wondering what's next after Infinity War. I cant see how you can top that, barring them getting the FF rights and making Galactus the next biggest threat (High Evolutionary could possibly work as well).
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 16:12:09 GMT -5
Like someone else said, i'm wondering what's next after Infinity War. I cant see how you can top that, barring them getting the FF rights and making Galactus the next biggest threat. Doesn't Fox lose the rights if they decide not to make another FF movie? The last one was so damn bad...and they've got the X-Men if they were smart they'd do what Sony did.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 26, 2016 16:15:30 GMT -5
Like someone else said, i'm wondering what's next after Infinity War. I cant see how you can top that, barring them getting the FF rights and making Galactus the next biggest threat (High Evolutionary could possibly work as well). They could always utilize a returning Red Skull or if Marvel did make some secret deal with Fox and they managed to acquire Fantastic Four thus having Dr. Doom as the next big bad.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Nov 26, 2016 16:18:24 GMT -5
Like someone else said, i'm wondering what's next after Infinity War. I cant see how you can top that, barring them getting the FF rights and making Galactus the next biggest threat (High Evolutionary could possibly work as well). They could always utilize a returning Red Skull or if Marvel did make some secret deal with Fox and they managed to acquire Fantastic Four thus having Dr. Doom as the next big bad. But wouldn't Red Skull or Doom be kinda a downgrade after Thanos?
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