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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 19, 2016 14:42:55 GMT -5
Eric Young is worth mentioning just because it was so transparent what they were trying to do. Eric Young himself is a fine choice, but they weren't fooling anybody. I'm too lazy to go back and dig up old threads to see if I remember things properly but there were at least a few marks who were definitely getting fooled given the way they tried to defend it/insist that wasn't what was happening. Yes, one of which continued to defend it years after the fact, and only turned on Eric Young after he showed up in NXT for his original one off.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Dec 19, 2016 14:53:18 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are.
Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to.
But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three.
Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance.
Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 19, 2016 15:16:26 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. Roode and Miz were never the top guy and honestly I don't think ever should have been, but for an eternity, TNA was all about Jeff. Stable after stable under his command, every good candidate for the belt ignored in favour of Jeff, where I honestly think that Monty Brown being basically killed dead in TNA is a worse sin than Triple H not putting over RVD and Booker T (at least on a 'put over' level, the story was indefensible), who were both older guys who didn't need to be established like Monty did. Over time, people will stop holding bad writing against a performer. But not when they're the ones who wrote themselves into those positions.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 19, 2016 15:34:45 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. Roode and Miz were never the top guy and honestly I don't think ever should have been, but for an eternity, TNA was all about Jeff. Stable after stable under his command, every good candidate for the belt ignored in favour of Jeff, where I honestly think that Monty Brown being basically killed dead in TNA is a worse sin than Triple H not putting over RVD and Booker T (at least on a 'put over' level, the story was indefensible), who were both older guys who didn't need to be established like Monty did. Over time, people will stop holding bad writing against a performer. But not when they're the ones who wrote themselves into those positions. Especially as Jarrett literally booked himself as invincible and kicked out of multiple finishers from multiple competitors in the same damned match only to win by hitting his opponent with a guitar.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 19, 2016 15:51:30 GMT -5
Anytime Jarrett held to to prove he was a main eventer. Point in case beating an over Raven for the belt on same random Canadian house show. Hell, I was/am fine with him main eventing, but the dude couldn't help himself, it seems like. Had he known when to roll with something that's working, like Raven was, then I think people would be a hell of a lot kinder in their appraisal of him, but he wasn't, and so they weren't.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Dec 19, 2016 16:08:35 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. Roode and Miz were never the top guy and honestly I don't think ever should have been, but for an eternity, TNA was all about Jeff. Stable after stable under his command, every good candidate for the belt ignored in favour of Jeff, where I honestly think that Monty Brown being basically killed dead in TNA is a worse sin than Triple H not putting over RVD and Booker T (at least on a 'put over' level, the story was indefensible), who were both older guys who didn't need to be established like Monty did. Over time, people will stop holding bad writing against a performer. But not when they're the ones who wrote themselves into those positions. And with that I agree. Jarrett definitely had an inflated sense of self-worth and seemed to book himself into top positions as some sort of 'proof' he was a top star, rather than anything organic or because the fans wanted it. I just don't understand why people try to retcon that into "Jarrett was a no-talent bum who was obviously never good enough to main event".
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 19, 2016 16:44:01 GMT -5
If we are including the actual NWA from the past how can we overlook Ronnie Garvin's fiasco of a title run? He tanked ratings from a 4.0 to a 2.8 in the 2 months he had the belt and had no notable defenses other than losing to Flair. TNA's bad champions are too numerous to remember. I'd have to say Magnus was pretty bad as well. His run is the definition of being buried with the belt, how a title run can completely devalue a guy. Sorry, I was just trying to limit it to the time where the NWA Champ was in TNA. I was trying to find a way to phrase worse top champ ever, but it's kind of tough since so many titles could get nitpicked to death. Like if I say "Worst Top TNA Champ Ever" We'll have a poster saying that the X division Title was more prestigious at one time or the tag titles or more prestigious now. Then we'll have three pages debating that instead of talking about the subject.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 19, 2016 16:51:06 GMT -5
Abyss and his DQ win, only to lose it in his first title defense.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 19, 2016 17:03:20 GMT -5
Alright, a lot of the ones mentioned are entire reigns that nothing went right with...
...but Magnus' reign, let's be real, was one that everything went wrong with. It damaged him, his challengers, the company and pretty much everything it collided with beyond repair.
Not a single segment or match was booked properly once that belt touched his hands.
It didn't just have a stagnant boredom (some Jarrett reigns), feel shoehorned (Eric Young), feel shortchanged (Rhyno) or feel wrong time (Sabin). Magnus was absolutely all those and more.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 19, 2016 19:29:36 GMT -5
Alright, a lot of the ones mentioned are entire reigns that nothing went right with... ...but Magnus' reign, let's be real, was one that everything went wrong with. It damaged him, his challengers, the company and pretty much everything it collided with beyond repair. Not a single segment or match was booked properly once that belt touched his hands. It didn't just have a stagnant boredom (some Jarrett reigns), feel shoehorned (Eric Young), feel shortchanged (Rhyno) or feel wrong time (Sabin). Magnus was absolutely all those and more. Didn't Sting went as raw to tap out to Magnus in order to put him over? Poor guy, being Dixie's storyline flunkie legit killed his career.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 19, 2016 19:34:16 GMT -5
Alright, a lot of the ones mentioned are entire reigns that nothing went right with... ...but Magnus' reign, let's be real, was one that everything went wrong with. It damaged him, his challengers, the company and pretty much everything it collided with beyond repair. Not a single segment or match was booked properly once that belt touched his hands. It didn't just have a stagnant boredom (some Jarrett reigns), feel shoehorned (Eric Young), feel shortchanged (Rhyno) or feel wrong time (Sabin). Magnus was absolutely all those and more. TNA in their wisdom decided to use their current world champion to make sure they put AJ and Sting over as strong as possible before they went to different companies.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 19, 2016 19:40:23 GMT -5
Abyss and his DQ win, only to lose it in his first title defense. Regarding Abyss, from the stories there are online, from Bruce Prichard and James Mitchell, Abyss is mentally weak and not smart enough to be a champion. The guy Aleix apparently in real life has zero confidence, he's happy to stay in mediocre spot destroying his body than being the man.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 19, 2016 21:25:07 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Really? You are comparing Roode to The Miz and freakin Jarrett and you don't know the difference. Roode always came across that he could kick your ass. His intensity made him special too. The other day I was watching an old TNA match between JJ and Sting on the Fight Network and Jarrett had the body of a dad that just started working out. You look at him and you just laugh that someone might be even considered to be the top dog at anything. My response to the question is Eddie Edwards. EE is a black hole of charisma, he is like the kid playing with older friends who stole the ball after they had stopped playing and he's like "hey guys, I win, I took the ball!". About EY, I think for him it's a question of timing. EY winning the title I did not have a problem with it. But it came at a time when he had become pretty bland. And the comparisons with Bryan was clear. There were two other times that he may have won it and it would not have been a problem: -When earlier in his TNA career he was this funny guy that faced Roode, they could have done this as a shock and people would have loved it. I think people would have gravitated to the new concept of a funny charismatic guy as a Champ. It has never been done before. -After he turned into the crazy psycho bearded guy. He could have been a dominant crazy heel champ, injuring guys when he is about to almost lose. Sort of like a modern day Buzz Sawyer. But they made EY champ when he was like EE is now, just some good underdog dude that "works hard for this business". You give the title to a guy at the time in his career when he never been more bland and boring.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Dec 19, 2016 21:50:20 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Really? You are comparing Roode to The Miz and freakin Jarrett and you don't know the difference. Roode always came across that he could kick your ass. His intensity made him special too. The other day I was watching an old TNA match between JJ and Sting on the Fight Network and Jarrett had the body of a dad that just started working out. You look at him and you just laugh that someone might be even considered to be the top dog at anything. To quote The Dude, "well that's just like your opinion man". I respect your opinion but it's not about "knowing the difference". Roode has never really come across as an ass kicker with special intensity, to me. He's always seemed pretty damn generic doing generic heel champion shtick. I like him, I do think he has talent but he never had an "it factor" to me. And I'm not sure why Jarrett's body is being discussed, have you seen some of the champions in WWE/WCW/TNA/ECW over the years? I also never said he should be the top dog, I just didn't get the hate for him even getting a chance at a world title.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Dec 19, 2016 21:56:59 GMT -5
Since people are including The Colorado Kid,the worst NWA world champ to me is The Sheik. Not the one that was Sabu's Uncle,but the one that got the NWA title after Cabana and Pearce had their feud. Dude was horrible.
For TNA NWA champs..... worst I guess might be what Ken Shamrock.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 19, 2016 22:16:06 GMT -5
Really? You are comparing Roode to The Miz and freakin Jarrett and you don't know the difference. Roode always came across that he could kick your ass. His intensity made him special too. The other day I was watching an old TNA match between JJ and Sting on the Fight Network and Jarrett had the body of a dad that just started working out. You look at him and you just laugh that someone might be even considered to be the top dog at anything. To quote The Dude, "well that's just like your opinion man". I respect your opinion but it's not about "knowing the difference". Roode has never really come across as an ass kicker with special intensity, to me. He's always seemed pretty damn generic doing generic heel champion shtick. I like him, I do think he has talent but he never had an "it factor" to me. And I'm not sure why Jarrett's body is being discussed, have you seen some of the champions in WWE/WCW/TNA/ECW over the years? I also never said he should be the top dog, I just didn't get the hate for him even getting a chance at a world title. Yea I suppose when people see Roode in the ring they think "OMG he is so soft". That is like saying Statham has no intensity. The first time I saw Roode in Team Canada when he was unknown guy I thought "this guy has a rugged intensity, he is gonna be something to watch". When he had his feud with Eric Young in 2006, Roode was pissed off all the time, he would attack people and scream at people. That is being calm? And being a good heel champion is not always being original, it's about going for the tried and true formula. And Roode was great at hitting the right note. Roode hitting the bottle on Storm's head may be my favorite TNA moment ever. He was so good in his role during that time that he even got praised from The Rock. His whole title reign was about intensity and being ruthless and being a badass heel in the style of HHH. I don't remember a time when Roode WASN'T an ass kicker.
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Post by abjordans on Dec 19, 2016 22:37:16 GMT -5
Magnus pretty much can't even work in the US anymore because of his reign, so probably him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 23:06:52 GMT -5
Abyss and his DQ win, only to lose it in his first title defense. Storywise it was because of rule where the NWA Championship changes hand on DQ but yet Jarrett got DQ a bunch of time as Champion but never lost the belt. So pretty much it was half ass excuse to put the belt on Abyss without him beating Sting for it.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 19, 2016 23:15:59 GMT -5
Anytime Jarrett held to to prove he was a main eventer. Point in case beating an over Raven for the belt on same random Canadian house show. I never got that Why have a championship change in a nothing Indy show instead of your own program? Guess tna just tna's itself This happened just before Spike TV debut and Impact was ending it stream online era. Jarrett ego believes that he was the best guy to be champion to debut on the much larger crowd because he felt he was the "biggest" star on the roster even though Raven was a much better champion when it came to everything he did unlike Jarrett fans didn't reject Raven and chant crap like "drop the title" or "change the channel" that TNA being TNA decided even as a tape show not to edit that out.
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bob
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Post by bob on Dec 19, 2016 23:30:55 GMT -5
Anytime Jarrett held to to prove he was a main eventer. Point in case beating an over Raven for the belt on same random Canadian house show. I never got that Why have a championship change in a nothing Indy show instead of your own program? Guess tna just tna's itself I believe that this was the start of the Jackie Gayda blackmailing Jarrett angle which dragged on forever.......and never got resolved because she got knocked up
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