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Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 24, 2016 23:00:14 GMT -5
I never really understood why people say Jeff Jarrett wasn't worthy of a world title but guys like Bobby Roode and The Miz (as examples, since they are two big favourites online these days) are. Yeah it's different opinions, some people just don't like Double J and maybe when you consider his reign of terror circa 2003-2005 then people are right not to. But look at the characteristics you need to be a world champion and I don't see what those two are supposed to have that Jarrett doesn't. In ring ability, mic skills, character strength, there's not much in it all between the three. Don't get me wrong I like Miz and Roode but I wouldn't say they're special talents. They're good and that's about their level, same with JJ. Yet you have people clamouring for them to be main eventers and yet Jarrett is 'midcard for life' (brother!) and should never have gotten a main event chance. Jeff Jarrett's country music singer/MMA enthusiast gimmicks were probably more entertaining than anything Miz or Roode had done at that point. Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. He had to be. Go back and watch TNA from 2004-2006 when Jarrett was on top and listen to how the crowd reacts. People talk about Monty Brown but the dude was a heel being cheered. Chris Daniels? Cheered. Joe? Cheered. Every single heel except Jarrett was cheered so ultimately as the only heel on the show that the people genuinely wanted to see die every week it was right to give him the belt. In 2006 when Christian Cage, Kurt Angle and Sting all debuted he built up an angle, lost the belt to Sting and was never champion again. If he was doing it for no reason other than ego he'd have been booking himself title reigns past 2006. The correct answer for the OP's question is Eric Young. Sabin, Magnus and Edwards are all pretty bad but nothing can top the absolutely disgraceful plagarism of Eric Young winning the belt 4 days after Daniel Bryan did with the exact same story and it coming out of absolutely nowhere simply because "WWE did it, it worked and our fans are idiots so they won't catch on" Eric Young would be top 5 of worst World Champions in the entire history of wrestling. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 24, 2016 23:53:19 GMT -5
I feel bad for Young, since if it was World Elite era, or actually built to, it'd have been fine to give him the belt, but you just knew when Dixie's defense was "Eric Young has a beard first", that they not only didn't get how stupid it made the company look, but also they had no idea why Bryan was over.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 23:55:00 GMT -5
I didnt see any Of Jarretts reigns, but I did see his WCW ones, and there as no way he belonged in that spot. He didnt have the promo skills, or in the in ring ability to have a main event match.
He did cut some great promos in late 2009 though and he looked pretty good in the ring (he was jobbing though).
Chris Saben was wasted massively, but then so was Shelley. Hogan didnt like them it seems as they were TNA next stars in my view. I have no idea who booked the Saben/Bully Ray feud, but there is no way they should have had a job in the first place. Every thing was done wrong in that feud. And I mean everything. Saben needed to have come back matches and a focus on him building upto BUlly Ray. A clean win then would have been great for everyone, but no, it was rushed and botched so badly that TNA destroyed him. They then went on to turn him heel.
Yes people were paid for that mess.
I dont see how any of that is Saben's fault. He wasn't allowed to get over and like Maguns was never put in a spot where he could shine. Instead always made to look stupid and weak.
The worst champion is easily Eric Young. He was a comedy jobber that TNA decided to give the title too. I have no idea why. He wasn't over at all, and was never going to draw. All of his wins were met with silence.
Although I still feel that Sting and Mick Foley should have been no where near the belt ever, and thank god Hogan didn't have a run. He did try though with all those surgeries. He would have been far worse than Young.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 26, 2016 2:26:54 GMT -5
Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. He had to be. Go back and watch TNA from 2004-2006 when Jarrett was on top and listen to how the crowd reacts. People talk about Monty Brown but the dude was a heel being cheered. Chris Daniels? Cheered. Joe? Cheered. Every single heel except Jarrett was cheered so ultimately as the only heel on the show that the people genuinely wanted to see die every week it was right to give him the belt. In 2006 when Christian Cage, Kurt Angle and Sting all debuted he built up an angle, lost the belt to Sting and was never champion again. If he was doing it for no reason other than ego he'd have been booking himself title reigns past 2006. The correct answer for the OP's question is Eric Young. Sabin, Magnus and Edwards are all pretty bad but nothing can top the absolutely disgraceful plagarism of Eric Young winning the belt 4 days after Daniel Bryan did with the exact same story and it coming out of absolutely nowhere simply because "WWE did it, it worked and our fans are idiots so they won't catch on" Eric Young would be top 5 of worst World Champions in the entire history of wrestling. Those heels were getting cheered because TNA, as much as it wanted to be a replacement for WCW, was a show that drew mostly a smarky fanbase. Hardcore fans cheer heels they like, that much was very obvious by that point in time. Guys like Joe and Monty weren't getting cheered because they were ineffectual heels, they were cheered because they were very good at what they did and won people over with how well they played the bad guy. Some people can play slimey, detestable motherf***ers well enough to make even smarks cheer them, but that wasn't Jeff. People f***ing loathed Jeff not on the weight of his heel work, but because they knew he was writing himself into that spot and holding everyone else down. Jeff took six months off from being on-screen to focus on his role in running the company during that time frame, during which point the focus became much more about being a vanity appeal to whatever notable stars made elsewhere could come in and get a vanity run with the TNA title. And I can tell you right now that the reason he didn't book himself for another title reign, at least from '08 onward, had nothing to do with ego. When the Karen thing went down, he basically had all of his power stripped and his allies were run out of the company because Dixie was using it as an excuse to make a grab for power. He remained around, but never as important because he wasn't booking himself at the level he believed he was at, but instead being booked as per whatever Russo and Dixie and the Hogan/Bischoff consortium thought he was worth. But then, when selling his shares of the company to Dixie, he managed to get himself another title reign. Despite not being contracted to wrestle for TNA or even having shown up in years, Jarrett won the very first KotM title reign. As part of Dixie trying to appease Jarrett into selling her his piece of a company worth no dollars, he decided that money for nothing wasn't enough and wanted to get a belt. I really don't see how ego couldn't have been the driving factor behind it. |
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Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 26, 2016 5:19:32 GMT -5
He had to be. Go back and watch TNA from 2004-2006 when Jarrett was on top and listen to how the crowd reacts. People talk about Monty Brown but the dude was a heel being cheered. Chris Daniels? Cheered. Joe? Cheered. Every single heel except Jarrett was cheered so ultimately as the only heel on the show that the people genuinely wanted to see die every week it was right to give him the belt. In 2006 when Christian Cage, Kurt Angle and Sting all debuted he built up an angle, lost the belt to Sting and was never champion again. If he was doing it for no reason other than ego he'd have been booking himself title reigns past 2006. The correct answer for the OP's question is Eric Young. Sabin, Magnus and Edwards are all pretty bad but nothing can top the absolutely disgraceful plagarism of Eric Young winning the belt 4 days after Daniel Bryan did with the exact same story and it coming out of absolutely nowhere simply because "WWE did it, it worked and our fans are idiots so they won't catch on" Eric Young would be top 5 of worst World Champions in the entire history of wrestling. Those heels were getting cheered because TNA, as much as it wanted to be a replacement for WCW, was a show that drew mostly a smarky fanbase. Hardcore fans cheer heels they like, that much was very obvious by that point in time. Guys like Joe and Monty weren't getting cheered because they were ineffectual heels, they were cheered because they were very good at what they did and won people over with how well they played the bad guy. Some people can play slimey, detestable motherf***ers well enough to make even smarks cheer them, but that wasn't Jeff. People f***ing loathed Jeff not on the weight of his heel work, but because they knew he was writing himself into that spot and holding everyone else down. Regardless if the fans dig them and are cheering them why on earth would they buy a Pay Per View to see the person get beat up? People would pay to see Jeff get beat he was the only effective heel in the company. It doesn't matter what the reason was. |
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Jake, The Jake, Jake
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Post by Jake, The Jake, Jake on Dec 26, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -5
So I started researching former tna champs after finding this thread (mostly because I had zero memory of mick foley winning the thing) and f***ing hell, Mr. Anderson had TWO reigns?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 26, 2016 15:13:55 GMT -5
Those heels were getting cheered because TNA, as much as it wanted to be a replacement for WCW, was a show that drew mostly a smarky fanbase. Hardcore fans cheer heels they like, that much was very obvious by that point in time. Guys like Joe and Monty weren't getting cheered because they were ineffectual heels, they were cheered because they were very good at what they did and won people over with how well they played the bad guy. Some people can play slimey, detestable motherf***ers well enough to make even smarks cheer them, but that wasn't Jeff. People f***ing loathed Jeff not on the weight of his heel work, but because they knew he was writing himself into that spot and holding everyone else down. Regardless if the fans dig them and are cheering them why on earth would they buy a Pay Per View to see the person get beat up? People would pay to see Jeff get beat he was the only effective heel in the company. It doesn't matter what the reason was. Which would be fine and dandy if people ever paid for TNA PPVs, but they didn't. The biggest drawing main event they ever ran was Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle on a show that didn't even have Jeff on the card. Nobody was paying to see a dude vanity book himself as Ric Flair and the notion that they were is ridiculous. People were paying for a non-WWE product and for other parts of the show. Jeff was an unfortunate element dragging the top of the card down. When the cat's let out of the bag, people weren't paying any more to see a dude they hated constantly win matches. They were either paying for other things on the show or they just straight-up weren't paying. When people on here talk about a "good heel" they're even referring to them in a positive light, and on the weight of his time in TNA nobody was saying he was an effective heel performer. I don't know where the idea that people won't pay to see and in general appreciate a well liked heel being a dominant champion, either. Have you missed all the praise Lashley got on these parts? Or how over Samoa Joe was as NXT champion destroying people? People will pay to see a heel they like with the title, but they won't pay to see a heel they dislike with the title just out of the belief he'll get beaten up for real and earn what he deserves. Instead, you get guys like the Miz, generally considered to be on fire and doing a great job playing heel and getting heat, but who also earns praise for doing it. That is the face of modern "good" heeling, and how things work when the story is no longer something anyone believes is really happening. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 21:17:48 GMT -5
It's pretty telling that despite the resigning of Mickie and their expansion into the UK that WWE continue to take a pass on Magnus. Tbf it's possible he's happier being semi retired but it also speaks volumes about how much his final months in TNA damaged him.
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Post by Ragnal on Dec 28, 2016 18:04:11 GMT -5
The worst champion is easily Eric Young. He was a comedy jobber that TNA decided to give the title too. I have no idea why. He wasn't over at all, and was never going to draw. All of his wins were met with silence. Much as it is I don't like Young, I'm not going to say the dude was never over in that company. He had his share of fans, and the fact he got a good reaction in NXT (Or was even looked at by WWE) says he still has some value to him, even if it's not a big role. Young was a good cowardly character in Team Canada, and Don't Fire Eric worked for a while, but then you get into the long feud with Roode that was trying to be serious after months of being comedy fodder, the Super Eric stuff, and losing two titles in less than a few minutes due to silly reasons one of which ties back to the previous stupid, and it hurt Eric's stock rather heavily. THEN we get into Eric Young's heel turn, which I remember was teased in a Jarrett feud, and then after that he turns on his TNA team and joins World Elite as the leader! I could understand Young joining and giving WE some Canadian flare (since it was another instance of 'well they have something in common so make them a team' logic that also brought Kongtourage to the fold), and build him back up as serious, but he's immediately become the leader all of a sudden AND wins the Legends belt and reclaims it the Global title, and then post-Hogan arrival all that's undone by giving him a concussion! So the idea of taking Young seriously in TNA ever again ceased to exist. Not Young's fault, but I put that blame solely on TNA for ruining him and pushing him around everywhere only to eventually just go back to 'comedy'. I can at least give the guy credit, he tries to do what he can with the stupidity he's given, even if it doesn't work and becomes painful to sit through. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 19:28:47 GMT -5
Way I see it is, a heel being entertaining matters more than a heel being booed. Jarrett by and large is not entertaining and his presence in TNA's main event scene did more to turn me off than it did to get me invested. I didn't start really getting into TNA or buying their PPVs until Jarrett was pushed aside.
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Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 29, 2016 7:57:16 GMT -5
The worst champion is easily Eric Young. He was a comedy jobber that TNA decided to give the title too. I have no idea why. He wasn't over at all, and was never going to draw. All of his wins were met with silence. Much as it is I don't like Young, I'm not going to say the dude was never over in that company. He had his share of fans, and the fact he got a good reaction in NXT (Or was even looked at by WWE) says he still has some value to him, even if it's not a big role. The main event of Slammiversary 2014 featured Eric Young defeating both Austin Aries and Bobby Lashley in a steel cage match in front of 3500 people. When Eric Young got the pin the response was almost complete silence. He celebrated in the ring and people in the front row were visibly paying him no attention. I will agree that at some point he was over but he was never over as TNA World Heavyweight Champion. The people didn't care. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 3, 2017 0:17:27 GMT -5
Magnus. TNA managed to ruin his career with the worst main event run not meant as a joke. Heck no, I'm taking that Magnus reign. Its the only World Champion we have ever had in any international level promotion. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 3, 2017 0:37:15 GMT -5
Much like Triple H, Jeff would get infinitely less backlash against his reigns if he wasn't in a position to basically book himself to keep being presented as king. He was given multiple lengthy reins and was the focal point of the company. He had to be. Go back and watch TNA from 2004-2006 when Jarrett was on top and listen to how the crowd reacts. People talk about Monty Brown but the dude was a heel being cheered. Chris Daniels? Cheered. Joe? Cheered. Every single heel except Jarrett was cheered so ultimately as the only heel on the show that the people genuinely wanted to see die every week it was right to give him the belt. In 2006 when Christian Cage, Kurt Angle and Sting all debuted he built up an angle, lost the belt to Sting and was never champion again. If he was doing it for no reason other than ego he'd have been booking himself title reigns past 2006. The correct answer for the OP's question is Eric Young. Sabin, Magnus and Edwards are all pretty bad but nothing can top the absolutely disgraceful plagarism of Eric Young winning the belt 4 days after Daniel Bryan did with the exact same story and it coming out of absolutely nowhere simply because "WWE did it, it worked and our fans are idiots so they won't catch on" Eric Young would be top 5 of worst World Champions in the entire history of wrestling. Jarrett definitely knew the long game with Angle was to have him as the new top heel. The only reason Planet Jarrett lasted so long is because every heel outside of it was too popular. IIRC Joe was pretty much a tweener by that point due to popularity and he'd been a total bastard in the X Division. I'm fairly certain Christians heel run was pretty much a placeholder for Angle to have time to turn. Though TBH I'd have gone with a long Abyss unstoppable monster run in time for Joe to topple him. |
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jan 3, 2017 23:51:11 GMT -5
Probably Eric Young. For while dude was talented enough to deserve that belt (well, in TNA during that point of things), the build for his winning the belt was almost non existent, and his winning the belt ended up doing more damage to him/TNA than it did help either.
Although, Jarrett would also be an acceptable answer, as while he did deserve to be a champion, him being the Triple H of TNA during its first 4 years did WAY more damage to that product's credibility than it did really build anything up during its infancy.
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