Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,165
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 5, 2017 4:08:46 GMT -5
You know that's even worse? When someone who is the Boss does it, and neither Man NOR Woman get retribution, that is basically Stephanie McMahon every single week and we've basically coined it as EMASCULATION NATION. It F***ing sucks and it's one of my most hated things in wrestling period.
One of the reasons I like CHIKARA Pro Wrestling is Men and Women are on an Equal Playing Field. It doesn't matter the size, it doesn't matter the gender, you fight everyone and anyone and you do what you want, and it's not considered wrong in that promotion, it is professional wrestling. Professional Wrestling where a Woman can become a World Champion of an entire promotion in Princess Kimberlee. Something that mind you, made Rolling Stone magazine it made that much of a wave.
Kim's going to WWE now, sadly I see her days of being on equal footing with the guys behind her, but in my eyes, it could be done, but WWE has built up this quite frankly shitty wall where if you're a dude, you just stand there and take offense from Women, and nothing really happens, even with the most unstable crazy goon you kayfabe have in Ambrose, will just stand there and let Maryse slap him and block him from Miz, he can't even shove her to the side? Like is Maryse gonna shatter into a Million Pieces? Former Champion Maryse?? That to me, is just horse shit. There was a time in WWE where Chyna was the Intercontinental Champion and Jaqueline was a Cruiserweight Champion, hell, one of Godfahers Hoes was a Hardcore Champion as was Molly Holly!
It's wrestling, it's not an actual fight, The Woman is not actually getting beaten by a man. To me, Wrestling is a world where anything can be possible and Girls and Guys can fight and get in altercations without it seeming like this dark cloud or just unbalanced shit. Maybe things will change, but in the end, for now, I guess I'll just take the fact that Womens Wrestling is really on the rise these past few years, before stuff like equal wrestling ever gets a discussion in a promotion like WWE, and not just something like a Joke Match either. They had discussed how they wanted to see Sasha Banks as Intercontinental Champion in a video, so hey, who knows.
But short answer, yeah, it's bullshit, in the wrestling world with how these characters normally act it doesn't make much sense, and in this sorta scenario, they're basically telling people Brock Lesnar would basically be smacked around by any Woman on the Roster and just take it... it's just one of those things that can't be taken seriously...
|
|
schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,811
|
Post by schma on Jan 5, 2017 4:31:35 GMT -5
I remember writing a similar thread about Alexa Bliss slapping the Vaudvillains every week, so much so they actually made a storyline out of it because she knew they wouldn't hit back so she'd stand there and slap the piss out of them both knowing they'd never do anything about it, and it was strange booking because were we supposed to WANT them to hit her back? I watched Ambrose take the slap and it got me thinking to when Austin stunnered Stacy Keibler for not taking a beer and it being shrugged off by everyone. What a difference a decade makes, huh? This actually was the moment that I wanted nothing to do with Austin. I'd already been cooling on him a bit because that era was basically just him being a giant dick to everyone (and I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for What?! or his horrible role as the leader of the Invasion). But yeah, that was just beyond crappy and I was not sad when he finally left.
|
|
ilggant
Unicron
Run...
Posts: 2,666
|
Post by ilggant on Jan 5, 2017 5:11:52 GMT -5
I remember writing a similar thread about Alexa Bliss slapping the Vaudvillains every week, so much so they actually made a storyline out of it because she knew they wouldn't hit back so she'd stand there and slap the piss out of them both knowing they'd never do anything about it, and it was strange booking because were we supposed to WANT them to hit her back? I watched Ambrose take the slap and it got me thinking to when Austin stunnered Stacy Keibler for not taking a beer and it being shrugged off by everyone. What a difference a decade makes, huh? This actually was the moment that I wanted nothing to do with Austin. I'd already been cooling on him a bit because that era was basically just him being a giant dick to everyone (and I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for What?! or his horrible role as the leader of the Invasion). But yeah, that was just beyond crappy and I was not sad when he finally left. In this case Stacey hardly deserved it, but if she had slapped him then I think she had only herself to blame for being stunnered.
|
|
PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,613
|
Post by PKO on Jan 5, 2017 5:26:14 GMT -5
In general I'm pretty much on the side of, "If a woman slaps a man in wrestling, a reaction should be fair game." I don't see a dividing line between violence against women and in other fiction where nobody complains about it. And really, "Women hitting men is fine, but men hitting women never is, ever!" is a pretty sexist sentiment both ways anyway. This is pretty much my line of thinking. I hate violence in real life. Hate it. I even find MMA uncomfortable. I'm not quite sure psychologically how wrestling fits into that, but it's been one of my main loves since childhood. It's escapism. If someone has a disagreement with someone else in real life I wouldn't want them to get smashed in the face with a chair, but in wrestling I think that's fair game.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 5:32:34 GMT -5
It's BS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 5:34:56 GMT -5
WARNING: Personal opinions and gender assumptions coming in this post. If that kind of thing bothers you, than this post is going to bother you. It is also long.
It drives me up the damn wall for a pair of reasons, both of them admittedly personal. Yeah, call me a weirdo all you want but I never like seeing women slap dudes around with consequence in any media.
Part of it is I've worked for years or so in various security gigs. I started at bars. I now work in a hospital. And you know what? It's frustrating the amount of women who go at us, start screaming in our face or slapping us knowing that we can't do a whole lot to them without getting in trouble. And we're professionals. The companies I work for are really, really good. It's not like we're beating up on people. But we DO have to be physical sometimes, and the level of force we use is fundamentally different because no matter how much a woman beats the tar out of us we're judged WAY differently for how we interact with women.
It's frustrating because a lot of the women we interact with have this like...culture where they're talking up fighting or how “crazy” they are. Men don't do that. They don't. I know there's this idea of a lot of men being these alpha male dudebro's who sit around bragging how tough they are but you know what? It's nonsense. You sit around with a group of guys bragging about how tough you are long enough and someone is going to tell you to put up or shut up. So you learn to watch what you say sometimes. But I dunno, I feel like for a lot of women – especially in a meme'd up internet generation – there's a lot of “if you don't like it, fight me” and a lot of talk about how they'll flip out and fight over every little thing. And frankly, I'm not sure there's that sense of consequence to what violence IS that young men get really, really fast. I think it's just because we tend to be aggressive towards each other in fundamentally different ways in terms of men vs women.
The point is I think a lot of our pop culture glorifies this nonsense. I think there's a lot of female characters who get to act crazy aggressive without much in the way of consequence. And yeah, when I see it in wrestling it frustrates the daylights out of me. Because it's a no win situation for the dudes in wrestling. They can't hit back, and you know if they did what any sane person would do in real life (Call the cops or go to the authorities) they'd be booed for being cowards or whatever. It's nonsense.
The other way it frustrates me is, frankly, women can take it. My BJJ coach is a woman. She's tough as nails. She beats the daylights out of me on the regularly because she's one of the smartest, most technically skilled folks I've ever seen. Women can be just as tough as men on EQUAL FOOTING. Why not portray that instead of the only time there's physical contact between the sexes having a jerk woman who thinks there are no consequences slap a dude? Now, okay, with certain women in wrestling it doesn't make a ton of sense. Stephanie McMahon should not be portrayed as a great wrestler (that Summerslam match she had where commentary was going nuts about her was insufferable) but for the most part...these are trained fighters. Trained, tough fighters who in universe should be able to beat some folks.
You're telling me super asskicker, genetically gifted Charlotte can't beat up a few dudes? Now, yeah, in real life you can go “Size difference” or whatever but in universe guys like Neville can beat dudes like Mark Henry without too much difficulty sometimes. Sasha Banks is tough as nails, she can't grit through a fight and beat a few dudes? In universe, they're tough enough to get it handled.
Real glad FAN doesn't have a downvote button right now.
|
|
ilggant
Unicron
Run...
Posts: 2,666
|
Post by ilggant on Jan 5, 2017 5:41:21 GMT -5
WARNING: Personal opinions and gender assumptions coming in this post. If that kind of thing bothers you, than this post is going to bother you. It is also long. It drives me up the damn wall for a pair of reasons, both of them admittedly personal. Yeah, call me a weirdo all you want but I never like seeing women slap dudes around with consequence in any media. Part of it is I've worked for years or so in various security gigs. I started at bars. I now work in a hospital. And you know what? It's frustrating the amount of women who go at us, start screaming in our face or slapping us knowing that we can't do a whole lot to them without getting in trouble. And we're professionals. The companies I work for are really, really good. It's not like we're beating up on people. But we DO have to be physical sometimes, and the level of force we use is fundamentally different because no matter how much a woman beats the tar out of us we're judged WAY differently for how we interact with women. It's frustrating because a lot of the women we interact with have this like...culture where they're talking up fighting or how “crazy” they are. Men don't do that. They don't. I know there's this idea of a lot of men being these alpha male dudebro's who sit around bragging how tough they are but you know what? It's nonsense. You sit around with a group of guys bragging about how tough you are long enough and someone is going to tell you to put up or shut up. So you learn to watch what you say sometimes. But I dunno, I feel like for a lot of women – especially in a meme'd up internet generation – there's a lot of “if you don't like it, fight me” and a lot of talk about how they'll flip out and fight over every little thing. And frankly, I'm not sure there's that sense of consequence to what violence IS that young men get really, really fast. I think it's just because we tend to be aggressive towards each other in fundamentally different ways in terms of men vs women. The point is I think a lot of our pop culture glorifies this nonsense. I think there's a lot of female characters who get to act crazy aggressive without much in the way of consequence. And yeah, when I see it in wrestling it frustrates the daylights out of me. Because it's a no win situation for the dudes in wrestling. They can't hit back, and you know if they did what any sane person would do in real life (Call the cops or go to the authorities) they'd be booed for being cowards or whatever. It's nonsense. The other way it frustrates me is, frankly, women can take it. My BJJ coach is a woman. She's tough as nails. She beats the daylights out of me on the regularly because she's one of the smartest, most technically skilled folks I've ever seen. Women can be just as tough as men on EQUAL FOOTING. Why not portray that instead of the only time there's physical contact between the sexes having a jerk woman who thinks there are no consequences slap a dude? Now, okay, with certain women in wrestling it doesn't make a ton of sense. Stephanie McMahon should not be portrayed as a great wrestler (that Summerslam match she had where commentary was going nuts about her was insufferable) but for the most part...these are trained fighters. Trained, tough fighters who in universe should be able to beat some folks. You're telling me super asskicker, genetically gifted Charlotte can't beat up a few dudes? Now, yeah, in real life you can go “Size difference” or whatever but in universe guys like Neville can beat dudes like Mark Henry without too much difficulty sometimes. Sasha Banks is tough as nails, she can't grit through a fight and beat a few dudes? In universe, they're tough enough to get it handled. Real glad FAN doesn't have a downvote button right now. Getting some backup rather than getting massacred for this thread makes me happy, and this post sums it up perfectly
|
|
|
Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 5, 2017 6:40:45 GMT -5
The next time Ric Flair gets slapped by Charlotte, I'd be fine with him putting her over his knee and spanking her.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,879
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub H on Jan 5, 2017 7:10:38 GMT -5
With the vaudevillains it worked because they played " they are gentleman that would never harm a lady" . Ambrose is a crazy hobo. But I mean it would be awkward at the same time to have your best gace hitting a harmless woman.
|
|
|
Post by KobashiChop on Jan 5, 2017 7:24:43 GMT -5
To be fair Ambrose more or less no sold it. And Miz got what he deserved for provoking Renee.
But yeah Stephanie needs to just get massacred by someone. For all the "make Roman look strong" jokes, she is so much more protected. Nobody is advocating that women getting beaten up by guys twice their size is good TV but watching her grab everyone by the metaphorical grapefruits is just mind numbing.
|
|
|
Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 5, 2017 7:43:20 GMT -5
Give her an atomic drop or hire someone to throw pies at her. There's other ways to gain comeuppance than pile driving her to the ground, mounting her and pummeling her.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 7:53:20 GMT -5
No, because even as a kid I thought that guys like Hogan/Warrior/Sting beating the crap out of Sherri was awful.
|
|
Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
|
Post by Abdullah on Jan 5, 2017 8:02:10 GMT -5
I don't want to go back to the days where a whole segment is made up of Lita getting beat up by main-eventers to 'prove that she belongs' or whatever.
But yeah, it really bothers me with Stephanie now.
|
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Jan 5, 2017 8:06:15 GMT -5
I just think the slaps are overdone. No comment on anything beyond that. And no female wrestler should resort to a "manager slap." They've had Sasha Banks do this a couple of times, and that makes me angry. She should knock the p*** outta Charlotte or whoever--male or female--not manager slap them.
|
|
|
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 5, 2017 8:21:35 GMT -5
This is part of the reason I haven't watched wwe in years. I got so tired of stephanie verbally emasculating male talent and then topping it off by physically abusing them on tv. For no reason or payoff. She's the "boss" but she abuses her employees physically, which makes no sense that she'd be allowed to do so without punishment, especially since it's a publicly traded company.
I don't know if she thinks that her character portrays female empowerment by showing dominance over men, but it's hurting the talent's credibility and killing the business.
|
|
|
Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on Jan 5, 2017 9:16:42 GMT -5
It's fine when a heel does it (like Maryse) because hitting someone knowing that they can't do anything back is pretty cowardly.
But it gets a reaction from the crowd so it's always going to be a thing in wrestling.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,991
|
Post by Sparkybob on Jan 5, 2017 10:17:30 GMT -5
To me personally I don't see an issue if a man hits a women with something high flying like a frog splash or 450. That isn't something that promotes violence against women because it's not a realistic offense in terms of domestic violence or something like that. I completely understand not wanting the visual of a man punching a women or using a powerbomb because that does look ultra violent.
But like a hurricanrana/atomic drop/figure four leg lock/high flaying move are just wrestling moves that aren't things people will do in a real life fight so shrug.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 5, 2017 10:39:52 GMT -5
Give her an atomic drop or hire someone to throw pies at her. There's other ways to gain comeuppance than pile driving her to the ground, mounting her and pummeling her. The weird (and honestly kind of disturbing, in hindsight) thing is the one moment I really remember somebody just hauling off on Stephanie, it was Chris Benoit. He's backstage with someone else I can't remember at the moment, then says "Don't you know who that is? That's Stephanie McMahon!", and then headbutts the shit out of her.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 5, 2017 10:57:37 GMT -5
Some of my favourite moments in wrestling are in intergender matches. Yes, I want women to be fair game.
If I ever needed to hit a guy for any reason, I'd be working on the assumption that he's likely to hit me back and I'm OK with that.
|
|
|
Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Jan 5, 2017 11:24:22 GMT -5
I've given thought to this topic and switched up my opinions many times in the past but ultimately I think physical interaction between men and women in a scripted fantasy environment can be done as long as it's done logically and tastefully without giving any of the boys (or girls) watching on TV the wrong idea.
Here is a clip of Johnny Gargano and Candice LaRae wrestling one another
In no way do I see this promoting any sort of negative agenda and in fact it's almost like an art form to me.
|
|