Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 20:44:43 GMT -5
And it's perfectly okay that you don't like his comics. I still don't see what the quality of his comic book writing has to do with his film career. Cause a bad writer is a bad writer no mater if they are writing comics or films. I think a part of it is I am much older than the average comic fan now. So Johns writing doesn't appeal to me. Just like how people under the age of 30 sometimes have trouble going back and reading acclaimed comic runs from the 70s and 80s. Cause of the changes. Like how when I was a kid comics were full of captions and word balloons. And now you see way less of that. But he hasn't written any films yet. You say Green Lantern sucked because of him but he was just a co-executive producer, he didn't write it. |
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jan 17, 2017 21:04:55 GMT -5
Cause a bad writer is a bad writer no mater if they are writing comics or films. I think a part of it is I am much older than the average comic fan now. So Johns writing doesn't appeal to me. Just like how people under the age of 30 sometimes have trouble going back and reading acclaimed comic runs from the 70s and 80s. Cause of the changes. Like how when I was a kid comics were full of captions and word balloons. And now you see way less of that. But he hasn't written any films yet. You say Green Lantern sucked because of him but he was just a co-executive producer, he didn't write it. plus he may have been sandbagged by WB, They are arseholes. They've caused NO END of issues when it comes to DC movies |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 22:17:13 GMT -5
Cause a bad writer is a bad writer no mater if they are writing comics or films. I think a part of it is I am much older than the average comic fan now. So Johns writing doesn't appeal to me. Just like how people under the age of 30 sometimes have trouble going back and reading acclaimed comic runs from the 70s and 80s. Cause of the changes. Like how when I was a kid comics were full of captions and word balloons. And now you see way less of that. But he hasn't written any films yet. You say Green Lantern sucked because of him but he was just a co-executive producer, he didn't write it. I'm a little split on putting the blame on Green Lantern on him. On one hand, that movie's a muddled mess that clearly had too many cooks in the kitchen and had tons of people pulling in different directions, compounded by an editor going to town cutting out a lot of stuff that was clearly needed to make the movie coherent. On the other, a lot of that movie's structure and its rush to cram in way too much mythology way too fast are kind of Johns hallmarks. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 18, 2017 0:19:56 GMT -5
But he hasn't written any films yet. You say Green Lantern sucked because of him but he was just a co-executive producer, he didn't write it. He co-wrote the screenplay for Wonder Woman, so we'll get to see for ourselves soon. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 18, 2017 0:28:14 GMT -5
But he hasn't written any films yet. You say Green Lantern sucked because of him but he was just a co-executive producer, he didn't write it. He co-wrote the screenplay for Wonder Woman, so we'll get to see for ourselves soon. it was written by a bunch of people and the story was still originally written by Zack Snyder. the movie was in the can before Johns was promoted over him. |
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 18, 2017 2:05:50 GMT -5
Is it possible that these particular rumors could be written by individuals with an agenda? One of the main criticisms that a lot of critics make is "Well, it's not Marvel.", "It's too dark and brooding", or "It's a mess". There's never really, at least in my opinion, it doesn't appear to be one person who writes these articles that wants the DCEU to succeed in any fashion.
So is it a possibility that a lot of these critics are just attempting to sabotage DC and make it to where Marvel is the only successful comic book franchise? It's a long shot and far fetched. But something is definitely up when it comes to these stories whenever a new DC film is about to be released.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 18, 2017 2:08:04 GMT -5
I have never seen anyone use "it's not Marvel" as an actual criticism.
and again even people that liked Suicide Squad overall usually say that it's a mess of a movie. because from all accounts it's pacing, tone and everything else are all over the map and feel like multiple movies spliced together, because that is apparently what happened.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 18, 2017 2:18:32 GMT -5
I have never seen anyone use "it's not Marvel" as an actual criticism. and again even people that liked Suicide Squad overall usually say that it's a mess of a movie. because from all accounts it's pacing, tone and everything else are all over the map and feel like multiple movies spliced together, because that is apparently what happened. One review I remember regarding Batman vs. Superman stated "It's not Marvel." I can't remember which exactly, but that phrase seems to be thrown around a lot amongst fans and critics. I am just trying to come to some sort of understanding at what the issue is regarding the DCEU. Of course the quality of a film is up to the viewer and everyone won't agree on whether it's great or not. But there's no way the DCEU is as bad as critics have made it out to be. Sure, they're not perfect, it's just for any critic or fan to say they're the worst films in the world is completely hyperbole. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 18, 2017 2:33:04 GMT -5
I thought Batman V. Superman as absolutely that bad.
No one is likable. Shit happens that really doesn't make any sense.
they apparently cut large important parts of the plot out of the Theatrical cut.
Snyder thinks he is way more clever than he actually is...
and the conflict resolution is probably the most laughable thing I saw that I was supposed to take serious last year.
the movie is just ugly to look at because again Snyder is convinced rubbing mud all over his film looks good.
What really sucks is that none of the problems lay on the actors... they're fine it's everything around them that's shit.
Man of Steel also has massive problems with it's story, especially everything to do with Zod and his motivations.
Not in a "he's not like the comics way" in a Zod literally works against his own goals and motivations with everything he did... and how are we supposed to take him seriously as the ultimate bad ass that was trained from birth to be the ultimate soldier when we saw him get his ass kicked in teh opening by a scientist.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2017 2:54:09 GMT -5
I thought Batman V. Superman as absolutely that bad. No one is likable. Shit happens that really doesn't make any sense. they apparently cut large important parts of the plot out of the Theatrical cut. Snyder thinks he is way more clever than he actually is... and the conflict resolution is probably the most laughable thing I saw that I was supposed to take serious last year. the movie is just ugly to look at because again Snyder is convinced rubbing mud all over his film looks good. What really sucks is that none of the problems lay on the actors... they're fine it's everything around them that's shit. Man of Steel also has massive problems with it's story, especially everything to do with Zod and his motivations. Not in a "he's not like the comics way" in a Zod literally works against his own goals and motivations with everything he did... and how are we supposed to take him seriously as the ultimate bad ass that was trained from birth to be the ultimate soldier when we saw him get his ass kicked in teh opening by a scientist. Batman V Superman is just a f***ing mess. At the end of the day what did it conclude. Superman is still alive so the funeral doesn't have a purpose. You have Wonder Woman right there why couldn't she be the one to use the kryptonite stick. At the end of the day if you are going to blue the lines with Superman you should of swerved everyone and made this the injustice universe. However, in saying that if they took the time to properly build Supermans frustrations and then have him go ape shit on the Joker it would of been a decent enough progression but they went 2x fast and just want people to buy into a brooding Superman who comes off as very selfish. The vision itself is just trash. There hasn't been bad performances as you said it's just everything around it crumbled and leaves you in a state of what the f*** is this ? |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 18, 2017 3:00:47 GMT -5
"It's not Marvel" as a criticism is first and foremost a strawman thrown around by the more partisan DC fans on social media and the IMDb boards. A reviewer can compare the perceived quality of the two brands without judging the merit of each film individually, which I think is something that gets lost in the storm that inevitably kicks up when a DC film isn't met with universal critical acclaim.
Pretty much any kind of critic who uses an "X isn't good because it's not Y" frankly isn't worth taking seriously, and any competent editor would tell them to go back and write something of substance when presented with a review that contains that kind of logic.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 18, 2017 6:25:35 GMT -5
I'm still baffled by Batman v Superman actually having defenders, and I'm really sick of the partisan "oh you hated it because it's not Marvel" that some DC fanboys cling to. hey, I'm a DC guy more than Marvel these days but I'm sorry, these movies have all been shit. if you're a DC fan you should be infuriated by what a shitty job their doing instead of going "oh well it's too dark for Marvel fans because they're a bunch of babies" or whatever idiot strawman argument these types are clinging to this week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 7:07:55 GMT -5
And for what its worth, these same rumors were applied to the 2015 Fantastic Four movie, & we all know how that movie turned out.
Just saying this because there's a recent frame of reference with these rumors.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 7:13:08 GMT -5
And, another problem I had with BvS was something that I felt wasn't discussed as much, & that was that Batman was put on a much higher tier than Superman.
I mean, the trailers pretty much showed Batman kicking Superman's ass & the movie, from what I felt, put Supes in a bad light, somehow worse than the hatchet job Man of Steel had done.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jan 18, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5
I'm still baffled by Batman v Superman actually having defenders, and I'm really sick of the partisan "oh you hated it because it's not Marvel" that some DC fanboys cling to. hey, I'm a DC guy more than Marvel these days but I'm sorry, these movies have all been shit. if you're a DC fan you should be infuriated by what a shitty job their doing instead of going "oh well it's too dark for Marvel fans because they're a bunch of babies" or whatever idiot strawman argument these types are clinging to this week. Honestly, I know a lot of people who really enjoy BvS, and I'm fine with that. It's very different from anything the MCU does with their films, and it's visually impressive at some points (or at least when it's not so dark that I can't see what's happening). So based on that, I totally understand why it has the following it does. When I knock it, I don't want to give the impression that I feel comic book films should only be done in a certain way. Like I said before, I'm totally okay with DC wanting to go in a more serious direction. It's just that for me, I felt Dawn of Justice went beyond a serious interpretation of its characters, and too far into "look how gritty and edgy we are!" You can tell a serious and thought provoking story while still remembering that the characters should be fun. Not necessarily quip machines, but I don't want to leave the theater thinking "that was a chore" like I did BvS. Civil War ended on a bittersweet note, but it was a decidedly more hopeful one- you can still tell that Steve and Tony care about each other. That's also why I enjoyed Suicide Squad for what it was. That movie has a ton of problems as well, but I still had a good time watching it because it at least loosened up once in a while. |
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 18, 2017 8:18:20 GMT -5
I say we just say F*** it and have Grant Morrison in to over see the universe. It'll make no damn sense but damnit I'd get a proper Superman movie and it'd be entertaining as hell.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 18, 2017 9:01:16 GMT -5
The only time "it's not Marvel" is EVER used is as a strawman deflection for DC criticism.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 18, 2017 9:07:07 GMT -5
And, another problem I had with BvS was something that I felt wasn't discussed as much, & that was that Batman was put on a much higher tier than Superman. I mean, the trailers pretty much showed Batman kicking Superman's ass & the movie, from what I felt, put Supes in a bad light, somehow worse than the hatchet job Man of Steel had done. this is more of Snyder's "I love the Dark Knight Returns!" While making it pretty damned obvious he did not read (or at the very least did not understand) the Dark Knight Returns. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 18, 2017 9:11:09 GMT -5
The Dark Knight Returns, as seminal a work as it is, should never be a basis for a shared superhero universe.
Its whole goal was presenting a miserable Batman who decided he'd had enough shit and was going to go full fascist even while taking down those he perceived as same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 9:58:31 GMT -5
I say we just say F*** it and have Grant Morrison in to over see the universe. It'll make no damn sense but damnit I'd get a proper Superman movie and it'd be entertaining as hell. If that happened, there'd be reports (few, but some would exist) of people in theatres who somehow managed to understand the story physically & cosmically transcending to that mutli-super-dimension where Morrison himself lives. |
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