Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 25, 2017 19:17:11 GMT -5
Then there was the time he wanted to give PG-13 goers "chubbies" with his cgi created female. *eyeroll* "Real women are complicated. You have to treat them with respect and stuff."
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 25, 2017 19:56:46 GMT -5
Then there was the time he wanted to give PG-13 goers "chubbies" with his cgi created female. *eyeroll* "Real women are complicated. You have to treat them with respect and stuff."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 19:59:10 GMT -5
"Real women are complicated. You have to treat them with respect and stuff." Clearly a man who understands the complexity of women.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 25, 2017 23:44:38 GMT -5
I don't like coming down too hard on Avatar, given a gone but not forgotten friend (Miss you, Jason/Deadpool) had a fondness for the film, including the blue gals, but yeah, I can definitely see the oddity of this statement given some of his ones about that character in the interview.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Aug 26, 2017 0:01:38 GMT -5
Eh, this is just the typical "WAH! Hollywood is too busy funding big, stupid superhero movies, and not funding MY big, stupid non superhero movie!!!" statement to me.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Aug 26, 2017 0:08:38 GMT -5
I've come into this thread like three times and I still have no idea what the f*** Cameron was trying to say.
But still, the dudes pretty undefeated when it comes to his movies. I think the next avatar flicks are really going to test that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 7:32:37 GMT -5
I'm not even saying they've got to be perfect. I think there really needs to be a wider perspective on the impact of these movies. White women have always been allowed to play a variety of roles as compared to say, black women. So ultimately, while I do like Wonder Woman and most of those other movies (Whedon can kick rocks), I'm not really impressed with them for a variety of reasons. What type of roles exist that black women haven't been allowed to portray? I literally named a handful of movies for you where you can look at these leads. ...not to mention we're in a topic about a lead woman in a comic book movie. ....which even if we stick to just fantasy and sci-fi, I think you can notice a pattern.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 9:43:11 GMT -5
What type of roles exist that black women haven't been allowed to portray? I literally named a handful of movies for you where you can look at these leads. ...not to mention we're in a topic about a lead woman in a comic book movie. ....which even if we stick to just fantasy and sci-fi, I think you can notice a pattern. The fact that you listed movies with white women in them doesn't mean black women can't play those roles. - Long before Wonder Woman and Black Widow, Halle Berry played Storm. - Long before Charlize Theron in Fury Road, we had Tina Turner in Beyond Thunderdome. - Long before Frozen, we had Tiana in Princess and The Frog. And Whedon didn't have a lot of diversity in Buffy in general, male or female. It was a show about a bunch of whit people. (And for the record, there's nothing wrong with that because every show doesn't have to be all-inclusive. Some clicks of people are all the same race. Just like it's okay for there to be shows about black people that don't have any white lead characters.) So let me reiterate the question, what type of roles are black women not allowed to play? Or are you just upset that there aren't the same number of black women on screen as white women? Because while I can't speak for foreign films, in the United States there are many more white women than black women. So it's only natural that there are more of them in EVERY career field. That's not racist, it's math.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 10:26:16 GMT -5
I literally named a handful of movies for you where you can look at these leads. ...not to mention we're in a topic about a lead woman in a comic book movie. ....which even if we stick to just fantasy and sci-fi, I think you can notice a pattern. The fact that you listed movies with white women in them doesn't mean black women can't play those roles. - Long before Wonder Woman and Black Widow, Halle Berry played Storm. - Long before Charlize Theron in Fury Road, we had Tina Turner in Beyond Thunderdome. - Long before Frozen, we had Tiana in Princess and The Frog. And Whedon didn't have a lot of diversity in Buffy in general, male or female. It was a show about a bunch of whit people. (And for the record, there's nothing wrong with that because every show doesn't have to be all-inclusive. Some clicks of people are all the same race. Just like it's okay for there to be shows about black people that don't have any white lead characters.) So let me reiterate the question, what type of roles are black women not allowed to play? Or are you just upset that there aren't the same number of black women on screen as white women? Because while I can't speak for foreign films, in the United States there are many more white women than black women. So it's only natural that there are more of them in EVERY career field. That's not racist, it's math. There's a bit of shallow thinking going on here. There's no way you're going to convince me what they had Halle doing in all the X-Men movies (most often the token black woman in an ensemble cast centered around...well, everybody already knows...) is in any way comparable to Wonder Woman. Or even Black Widow....not even Widow in AoU. I really didn't see Beyond Thunderdome, but somehow I really feel Turner in it doesn't support your point just because... Tiana in Princess and The Frog also doesn't really do it. At a base level, sure it was great to get an animated black Disney princess. So right, at a basic, visual level (and that's even ignoring how Disney promotes her) it's great because the visual really matters. But what was she trying to do in that movie? How does it compare to the several other white princesses they have? What role does Naveen play and how does it compare to the other princes? How does the setting differ from the other princesses? ..and again, how many different white princesses do we have...? It'd be easier to let some of that stuff slide if we actually had a variety of Black princesses. All of that matters. ...really, before I even go on there's got to be an understanding that even from the beginning, the stereotypes and issues a black woman has to deal with when it comes to representation are actually different than the ones white women have to deal with. ...and as for Whedon's bullshit, honestly once your show starts dealing with vampires and demons and cyborgs and witches and magical conspiracies and deities and dragons and hellmouths and rewriting reality...you can't cry foul if a show has "too many" black people for the setting. If you want to really go by math, since a lot of this stuff is seen globally...you've got a lot more black people than white people, but it's not about that kinda math anyway.... EDIT: Or to really be frank, my irritation comes from the lack of variety of roles in which black people are cast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 11:58:41 GMT -5
The fact that you listed movies with white women in them doesn't mean black women can't play those roles. - Long before Wonder Woman and Black Widow, Halle Berry played Storm. - Long before Charlize Theron in Fury Road, we had Tina Turner in Beyond Thunderdome. - Long before Frozen, we had Tiana in Princess and The Frog. And Whedon didn't have a lot of diversity in Buffy in general, male or female. It was a show about a bunch of whit people. (And for the record, there's nothing wrong with that because every show doesn't have to be all-inclusive. Some clicks of people are all the same race. Just like it's okay for there to be shows about black people that don't have any white lead characters.) So let me reiterate the question, what type of roles are black women not allowed to play? Or are you just upset that there aren't the same number of black women on screen as white women? Because while I can't speak for foreign films, in the United States there are many more white women than black women. So it's only natural that there are more of them in EVERY career field. That's not racist, it's math. There's a bit of shallow thinking going on here. There's no way you're going to convince me what they had Halle doing in all the X-Men movies (most often the token black woman in an ensemble cast centered around...well, everybody already knows...) is in any way comparable to Wonder Woman. Or even Black Widow....not even Widow in AoU. I really didn't see Beyond Thunderdome, but somehow I really feel Turner in it doesn't support your point just because... Tiana in Princess and The Frog also doesn't really do it. At a base level, sure it was great to get an animated black Disney princess. So right, at a basic, visual level (and that's even ignoring how Disney promotes her) it's great because the visual really matters. But what was she trying to do in that movie? How does it compare to the several other white princesses they have? What role does Naveen play and how does it compare to the other princes? How does the setting differ from the other princesses? ..and again, how many different white princesses do we have...? It'd be easier to let some of that stuff slide if we actually had a variety of Black princesses. All of that matters. ...really, before I even go on there's got to be an understanding that even from the beginning, the stereotypes and issues a black woman has to deal with when it comes to representation are actually different than the ones white women have to deal with. ...and as for Whedon's bullshit, honestly once your show starts dealing with vampires and demons and cyborgs and witches and magical conspiracies and deities and dragons and hellmouths and rewriting reality...you can't cry foul if a show has "too many" black people for the setting. If you want to really go by math, since a lot of this stuff is seen globally...you've got a lot more black people than white people, but it's not about that kinda math anyway.... EDIT: Or to really be frank, my irritation comes from the lack of variety of roles in which black people are cast. When it comes to "math" I straight up said I was talking about the US and not worldwide. When it comes to Disney Princesses, of course most of them were white. The majority of those movies were made in a time when black people and white people were not equal. ALL movies back then, not just Disney, were racist as shit. You can't dismiss my argument for Tina Turner and then say you haven't even seen the movie. When it comes to stereotypes and adversity faced by black women being different than that of white women, I'll take your word for it. I'm a man so I don't know how it feels to be a woman of ANY color. I must stress that I am all for more black people in general being in movies. This doesn't mean that every movie is not as good if it stars a white person instead of a black person. And lastly, you have yet to answer the question that started this entire debate between us. You stated that there are types of roles that black women have not been allowed to portray. You still have yet to say what those roles are exactly. And I'm not asking to attack you. I'm genuinely curious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:59:57 GMT -5
Guys, don't make me sick Joe Neglia on you, lest this thread get locked.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 13:40:13 GMT -5
Guys, don't make me sick Joe Neglia on you, lest this thread get locked. What are we doing wrong exactly?
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Aug 26, 2017 13:47:36 GMT -5
Guys, don't make me sick Joe Neglia on you, lest this thread get locked. What are we doing wrong exactly? nothing from what I've seen
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
Black Lives Matter
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 26, 2017 14:04:41 GMT -5
Two days since this came out and I still think James Cameron is a f***ing baby who should go focus on not finishing his movies like he has been the last eight years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 14:15:16 GMT -5
What are we doing wrong exactly? nothing from what I've seen Thanks. I thought we were having a pretty civil back and forth. Neither of us have insulted each other or been disrespectful to each other in any way. I don't have anything but respect for Stupid Sexy Ultron. Maybe we are guilty of derailing the thread a little though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 14:24:32 GMT -5
Guys, don't make me sick Joe Neglia on you, lest this thread get locked. What are we doing wrong exactly? I just want to make sure the thread doesn't degenerate to the point mods get involved. Apologies.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on Aug 26, 2017 14:41:11 GMT -5
James Cameron is a f***ing idiot. I've always thought that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 8:20:39 GMT -5
When it comes to "math" I straight up said I was talking about the US and not worldwide. When it comes to Disney Princesses, of course most of them were white. The majority of those movies were made in a time when black people and white people were not equal. ALL movies back then, not just Disney, were racist as shit. You can't dismiss my argument for Tina Turner and then say you haven't even seen the movie. When it comes to stereotypes and adversity faced by black women being different than that of white women, I'll take your word for it. I'm a man so I don't know how it feels to be a woman of ANY color. I must stress that I am all for more black people in general being in movies. This doesn't mean that every movie is not as good if it stars a white person instead of a black person. And lastly, you have yet to answer the question that started this entire debate between us. You stated that there are types of roles that black women have not been allowed to portray. You still have yet to say what those roles are exactly. And I'm not asking to attack you. I'm genuinely curious. I already answered your question. Then you became more adamant because I didn't answer it to your...specifications...? It can't be a "debate" when you admit to not knowing...well, the crux of what I'm saying, which pretty much throws all of your examples out of wack. So either you wanted to start something...or you're at least expecting me to give you a Media Representation 101 course. I'm not derailing the topic more than it already is for that to happen for you. And it's a good thing you are for more black people "in general" being in movies. I was a little unsure with you bringing up "math" and stressing that you were just talking about the United States and everything.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Aug 27, 2017 9:04:06 GMT -5
To summarise this debate in meme form
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 11:05:54 GMT -5
When it comes to "math" I straight up said I was talking about the US and not worldwide. When it comes to Disney Princesses, of course most of them were white. The majority of those movies were made in a time when black people and white people were not equal. ALL movies back then, not just Disney, were racist as shit. You can't dismiss my argument for Tina Turner and then say you haven't even seen the movie. When it comes to stereotypes and adversity faced by black women being different than that of white women, I'll take your word for it. I'm a man so I don't know how it feels to be a woman of ANY color. I must stress that I am all for more black people in general being in movies. This doesn't mean that every movie is not as good if it stars a white person instead of a black person. And lastly, you have yet to answer the question that started this entire debate between us. You stated that there are types of roles that black women have not been allowed to portray. You still have yet to say what those roles are exactly. And I'm not asking to attack you. I'm genuinely curious. I already answered your question. Then you became more adamant because I didn't answer it to your...specifications...? It can't be a "debate" when you admit to not knowing...well, the crux of what I'm saying, which pretty much throws all of your examples out of wack. So either you wanted to start something...or you're at least expecting me to give you a Media Representation 101 course. I'm not derailing the topic more than it already is for that to happen for you. And it's a good thing you are for more black people "in general" being in movies. I was a little unsure with you bringing up "math" and stressing that you were just talking about the United States and everything. No, you really didn't answer my question at all. But that's okay, because I'm done with this. We are just going in circles.
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