Why is HBK considered the best ever by a lot of fans?

[Deleted]

Storytelling peak wasn't even in his own match.

Refereeing Hunter/Taker in the Cell. His expressions, his dilemma. The point where he slumps in the corner having superkicked Taker (I think) and openly weeps because he's in too far over his head. It's masterful.

[Mozenrath]

I am not a big fan, but he worked a lot of styles, had a career over several eras, and a good number of classic matches, so I wouldn't begrudge anyone saying he was an all-time great.

I think his worst quality was sometimes being inconsistent, but even his worse matches tended to be half-decent. I also found his overuse of knife-edge chops kind of obnoxious in his later years.

[dav]

Generally because WWE pushed the hype machine behind him due to his friendship with Triple H and Vince always loving the guy for some reason.

[pegasuswarrior]

If it weren’t for DX, I’d like to be more of a fan. Great arguments and discussion here. Enjoy being challenged by what I’m reading.

DX is so wide of the mark for me that it dampens what could have been. I know DX is/was popular, but it’s Two and a Half Men Tv show popular. Just ruins so much potential love for Michaels’ work.

[government mule]

My own subjective perception of Michaels' work is completely clouded by what an absolute c*** he was during the mid-end of his first run. It really soured me on him knowing the shit he pulled in hindsight and I will never truely appreciate his body of work during this period.

That being said, I totally see the arguments put forward for him being the greatest. Some of the matches listed are iconic, pioneering and innovative. The matches against Mankind at IYH Mind Games and Undertaker HIAC Badd Blood 97 are two of the greatest of all time. I just can't see past what an awful bastard he was to be considered as the GOAT, but that is my hang-up.

[SparkyPlugg]

Personally I consider both Bret and AJ to be better than Michaels.

[nisidhe]

History has not been kind to Shawn Michaels' legacy as a performer, and with good reason. Too many fans tend to whitewash, if they remember at all, Michaels's first run in WWE. He was one of the very first cases of Vince forcing someone down the throats of fans who'd already chosen their favourite. Bret had been there when the guard changed in '92 and was seen by fans as infinitely more relatable, more professional, more technically sound, more open to challenges from all points on the alignment spectrum. Meanwhile, Shawn was losing his smile or playing up injuries to avoid having to put someone over, even when it meant losing a title. I've often joked that Shawn knew where bodies were buried as an explanation for why Vince so blatantly favoured Shawn and his friends.

[Hit Girl]

Dec 30, 2017 15:56:23 GMT -5 Gravedigger's Biscuits said:

Dec 30, 2017 15:13:41 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

As an in-ring performer, only Macho is on par with HBK.

For me Savage doesn't even come close overall, he badly declined throughout the 90s while Shawn Michaels came back after a 4-year absence and was better than ever.

Hell, he could probably come out of retirement tomorrow and have a MOTY contender.

Macho was fine until the late 90's when he roided up to absurd levels. As late as 96 he was still having a killer feud with DDP.

[Allie Kitsune]

Dec 31, 2017 9:15:25 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

History has not been kind to Shawn Michaels' legacy as a performer, and with good reason. Too many fans tend to whitewash, if they remember at all, Michaels's first run in WWE. He was one of the very first cases of Vince forcing someone down the throats of fans who'd already chosen their favourite. Bret had been there when the guard changed in '92 and was seen by fans as infinitely more relatable, more professional, more technically sound, more open to challenges from all points on the alignment spectrum. Meanwhile, Shawn was losing his smile or playing up injuries to avoid having to put someone over, even when it meant losing a title. I've often joked that Shawn knew where bodies were buried as an explanation for why Vince so blatantly favoured Shawn and his friends.

I tend to think that less people care about that than those who do care about it would like to think.

[Gravedigger's Biscuits]

Dec 31, 2017 12:46:14 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Dec 30, 2017 15:56:23 GMT -5 Gravedigger's Biscuits said:

For me Savage doesn't even come close overall, he badly declined throughout the 90s while Shawn Michaels came back after a 4-year absence and was better than ever.

Hell, he could probably come out of retirement tomorrow and have a MOTY contender.

Macho was fine until the late 90's when he roided up to absurd levels. As late as 96 he was still having a killer feud with DDP.

His whole WCW run just didn't do much for me tbh. He felt really stale the first few years and then in the last couple of years he looked like he was having a mid-life crisis.

Match wise I enjoyed his work with DDP and Flair but that's only two feuds in five years really.

[The Gallus Mark]

I legitmatally don't like HBK as a person. I know he is born again or whatever, but the dude is still a dickhead.

With that said, he's one of 5 greatest wrestlers ever to me and probably is number 1 due to the massive amount of great matches he had with anyone. Dude could be a face or a heel and all of matches were showstoppers. The fact that he had a 4 year gap due to injury and came back better than ever? That just puts him in a whole other class.

[Jokaine]

Dec 31, 2017 13:04:28 GMT -5 The Gallus Mark said:

I legitmatally don't like HBK as a person. I know he is born again or whatever, but the dude is still a dickhead.

I don't know HBK as a person. What is he like?

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Dec 30, 2017 16:18:13 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Because Shawn had the machine on his side longer. Whereas with Bret, a pretty good effort was spent for a lot of years to spin him as "bitter, conceited, egomaniacal, crotchety old Bret". Meanwhile, "conceited, egomaniacal, in-ring tantrum throwing years" Shawn largely gets swept under the rug.

To Shawn's credit that's probably because he spent the second half of his career apologizing for being a colossal jackass during the first half.

[schma]

Dec 31, 2017 12:56:32 GMT -5 Gravedigger's Biscuits said:

Dec 31, 2017 12:46:14 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Macho was fine until the late 90's when he roided up to absurd levels. As late as 96 he was still having a killer feud with DDP.

His whole WCW run just didn't do much for me tbh. He felt really stale the first few years and then in the last couple of years he looked like he was having a mid-life crisis.

Match wise I enjoyed his work with DDP and Flair but that's only two feuds in five years really.

I think his relationship and issues with Hogan bogged him down.  For years he hated the guy, he even made a rap record to dis him.  He was kinda stuck there too with the way things went down with Vince or at least that's how it looks.  Still he's one of the true greats.

[Kevin Hamilton]

To be honest, by the late 90s most of WCW's main event guys came across like



Savage was an offender but definitely not the only one.

[schma]

Dec 31, 2017 16:41:40 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

To be honest, by the late 90s most of WCW's main event guys came across like



Savage was an offender but definitely not the only one.

Yeah, that's the shame.  You could tell at the end that WCW was realizing that it really needed to build new stars and was starting to correct the ship when they were sold.  The big names did draw me in at first when I came back to wrestling (missed most of 94-97 due to lack of access) but the shine quickly wore off on several of them.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I'm not even so much talking about their ages in and of themselves, but a LOT of them came across like 'the old guy at the club'.

[HMARK Center]

This thread got me thinking, and something kind of funny dawned on me: I never consistently watched WWF at any point where Michaels was on top, outside of a few months here or there.

I was a Hulkamania era fan who gravitated toward Bret when the New Generation began, but by late 1994 I wasn't really interested in watching much anymore outside of an occasional Saturday catching bits of Superstars in the morning or some of WCW Saturday Night. I didn't watch another full episode of Raw until...the night after Wrestlemania XIV, when Shawn left because of his back. He got back in the ring in 2002 and I wasn't watching anything at that point besides a few segments here or there, so I didn't really see any of his big matches. I at least watched for most of 2004 but he was stuck feuding with Trips during that point and that kind of bored the crap out of me (chalk that more up to Trips), then I wasn't watching much again once 2005 rolled around.

So yeah, I grew up with Shawn as the promising up and coming midcard heel champ that was moving toward the main event, but when he finally made it I wasn't watching, and when I was watching he wasn't really on that much. Go figure.

[Kevin Dunn]

I wish I knew. He suck’s

[jimwilliams]

To be fair he might be the greatest fighter on the planet, he did fight off all those STD’s from “Sunny”... I’ll see my way out, sorry.