Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
Posts: 12,104 
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Jan 3, 2018 23:36:59 GMT -5
CTE wasn't a known thing until fairly recently, how in the hell do you know all their cases weren't as advanced? I know many of them have ended their own lives, but they didn't need to murder others first. I wouldn't discount it as a contributing factor, but I believe there was probably more to it than juat the brain damage. Because you use the phrase "tens of thousands" and even handling number of those brains, they said Benoit was a very advanced case of CTE. There's not even tens of thousands of former pro athletes who have committed suicide, which is to imply that their CTE is to a degree less advanced. They weren't examining people's brains for CTE until recently, so the documented number of cases to compare it to are extremely limited. People have been boxing since ancient times, and the game of football is over 100 years old. I'm sure tens of thousands (probably hundreds of thousands)of them suffered from some type of head trauma, but there's no way of knowing the severity of it. |
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MAGGLE
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 4,511
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Post by MAGGLE on Jan 4, 2018 0:20:07 GMT -5
The people vs Chris Benoit would premiere next Season on Fox
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Post by sfvega on Jan 4, 2018 0:23:13 GMT -5
Because you use the phrase "tens of thousands" and even handling number of those brains, they said Benoit was a very advanced case of CTE. There's not even tens of thousands of former pro athletes who have committed suicide, which is to imply that their CTE is to a degree less advanced. They weren't examining people's brains for CTE until recently, so the documented number of cases to compare it to are extremely limited. People have been boxing since ancient times, and the game of football is over 100 years old. I'm sure tens of thousands (probably hundreds of thousands)of them suffered from some type of head trauma, but there's no way of knowing the severity of it. That's completely inquantifiable though. We don't know if these random people throughout history even had CTE (though many likely did) and to what degree they had it. Football has been around for over 100 years, but the recent past is BY FAR the most dangerous time to play in its history. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and more well-protected (except their brain) than ever before. So from what we know about the concussion epidemic that left players killing themselves in record numbers and hard science of it, Benoit had one of the more advanced cases of CTE studied. I mean, you could argue that someone throughout history maybe had a 400 IQ, but there is no real science behind it and it is just wild speculation that doesn't add anything to the argument. This seems to just be you moving the goal posts (no pun intended) on a stance that seemed very questionable to begin with. |
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Post by DJ Maniak on Jan 4, 2018 0:25:03 GMT -5
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Post by thetower52 on Jan 4, 2018 2:50:19 GMT -5
After listening to Nancy’s sister on Jericho’s podcast it seems Benoit might of been more sane then anyone wants to think/admit
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A damn road sign
Samurai Cop
"What the hell am I? A school crossing?"
Posts: 2,424
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Post by A damn road sign on Jan 4, 2018 11:06:58 GMT -5
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Post by DJ Maniak on Jan 4, 2018 11:10:10 GMT -5
Yeah, Last Podcast On The Left is 3 comics that do a podcast on True Crime, Serial Killers, and Unexplained Phenomena. |
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,563 
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Post by FinalGwen on Jan 4, 2018 12:29:09 GMT -5
Also, as a standard rebuttal to the idea that it was only because of CTE: Mick Foley has had dozens of concussions, to the point where he cannot look at camera flashes. His brain has been through some severe trauma. He remains a ray of human sunshine and the worst thing he's done with his family is Holy Foley.
Some of it has to be put down to Benoit himself.
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Post by DJ Maniak on Jan 4, 2018 20:43:23 GMT -5
Also, as a standard rebuttal to the idea that it was only because of CTE: Mick Foley has had dozens of concussions, to the point where he cannot look at camera flashes. His brain has been through some severe trauma. He remains a ray of human sunshine and the worst thing he's done with his family is Holy Foley. And I can NEVER forgive him for that. |
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jan 4, 2018 20:57:03 GMT -5
The people vs Chris Benoit would premiere next Season on Fox I know you’re kidding, but I seriously hope “American Crime Story” uses it for a season eventually. |
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jan 4, 2018 20:58:41 GMT -5
I see Benoit ending up sadly like Dynamite Kid. Just don't see how his body doesn't eventually give out.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 4, 2018 22:30:22 GMT -5
Completely irrespective of all the....horror of his finals days, the idea of a Benoit run wrestling school is actually frightening, if stories about his treatment of rookies backstage are accurate. Those poor students. To my knowledge, Chris was just trying to teach rookies respect the way he grew up in the business. He was only tough on them so they'd learn I'd imagine. He made Daivari piss out broken down muscle fiber. |
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 4, 2018 22:34:20 GMT -5
The people vs Chris Benoit would premiere next Season on Fox I know you’re kidding, but I seriously hope “American Crime Story” uses it for a season eventually. FX already used the Benoit murders as inspiration for part of The Shield finale even. |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 4, 2018 23:25:21 GMT -5
To my knowledge, Chris was just trying to teach rookies respect the way he grew up in the business. He was only tough on them so they'd learn I'd imagine. He made Daivari piss out broken down muscle fiber. This story about Daivari being forced to do Hindu squats needs to die, seriously. Benoit didn't force Shawn Daivari into doing the Hindu squats. Daivari saw Benoit and Rob Conway warming up and wanted to join in because Benoit, and managed to get in about 300 (which was impressive for someone not used to doing that many; Benoit was known to do 500-800 a day.) There was no coercion involved; it was no punishment being meted out. It was simply a tale of one man testing his limits on something a much-respected co-worker did on the regular. Benoit is guilty of enough misdeeds that can be documented. What value are you adding to the narrative by making stuff up and keeping the made-up shit going? |
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Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
Posts: 12,104
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Jan 4, 2018 23:44:27 GMT -5
They weren't examining people's brains for CTE until recently, so the documented number of cases to compare it to are extremely limited. People have been boxing since ancient times, and the game of football is over 100 years old. I'm sure tens of thousands (probably hundreds of thousands)of them suffered from some type of head trauma, but there's no way of knowing the severity of it. That's completely inquantifiable though. We don't know if these random people throughout history even had CTE (though many likely did) and to what degree they had it. Football has been around for over 100 years, but the recent past is BY FAR the most dangerous time to play in its history. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and more well-protected (except their brain) than ever before. So from what we know about the concussion epidemic that left players killing themselves in record numbers and hard science of it, Benoit had one of the more advanced cases of CTE studied. I mean, you could argue that someone throughout history maybe had a 400 IQ, but there is no real science behind it and it is just wild speculation that doesn't add anything to the argument. This seems to just be you moving the goal posts (no pun intended) on a stance that seemed very questionable to begin with. I'd say football was more dangerous in the early years, people were dying at such an alarming rate that Teddy Roosevelt called for reforms to the game. Aaron Hernandez had advanced CTE, but he also had known gang ties from his youth. Is CTE creating the monster, or letting the monster already within them take control? Or is there no real connection at all? Most people with CTE didn't seem to need to murder anyone. Brain damage has been around as long as brains have, and it seemingly hasn't caused too many people to murder their child. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 5, 2018 0:00:42 GMT -5
He made Daivari piss out broken down muscle fiber. This story about Daivari being forced to do Hindu squats needs to die, seriously. Benoit didn't force Shawn Daivari into doing the Hindu squats. Daivari saw Benoit and Rob Conway warming up and wanted to join in because Benoit, and managed to get in about 300 (which was impressive for someone not used to doing that many; Benoit was known to do 500-800 a day.) There was no coercion involved; it was no punishment being meted out. It was simply a tale of one man testing his limits on something a much-respected co-worker did on the regular. Benoit is guilty of enough misdeeds that can be documented. What value are you adding to the narrative by making stuff up and keeping the made-up shit going? Yeah, that's what I said on the page before. The only thing on the squats until they pissed blood was from Daivari who made it sound like he joined in on doing the squats with Chris, not that Benoit forced him to do way more than he was comfortable with. |
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Post by sfvega on Jan 5, 2018 0:37:54 GMT -5
That's completely inquantifiable though. We don't know if these random people throughout history even had CTE (though many likely did) and to what degree they had it. Football has been around for over 100 years, but the recent past is BY FAR the most dangerous time to play in its history. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and more well-protected (except their brain) than ever before. So from what we know about the concussion epidemic that left players killing themselves in record numbers and hard science of it, Benoit had one of the more advanced cases of CTE studied. I mean, you could argue that someone throughout history maybe had a 400 IQ, but there is no real science behind it and it is just wild speculation that doesn't add anything to the argument. This seems to just be you moving the goal posts (no pun intended) on a stance that seemed very questionable to begin with. I'd say football was more dangerous in the early years, people were dying at such an alarming rate that Teddy Roosevelt called for reforms to the game. Aaron Hernandez had advanced CTE, but he also had known gang ties from his youth. Is CTE creating the monster, or letting the monster already within them take control? Or is there no real connection at all? Most people with CTE didn't seem to need to murder anyone. Brain damage has been around as long as brains have, and it seemingly hasn't caused too many people to murder their child. Football just went through a billion dollar lawsuit because people were still dying at an alarming rate, only after retirement instead of in games. The amount of retired players with neurological problems is overwhelming. Aaron Hernandez got in trouble at every level since HS. He had ties to 3 murders over several years. That's not really a comparable example, comparing a guy who was a constant criminal for most of his life before the end. Benoit was a guy who seemed to have his shit together for a long while and then went nuts. I mean, this is a guy who was injecting steroids into his autistic son at the end. I just don't think it's that big of a stretch to think he wasn't playing with a full deck of cards. And this is kind of BS. I hate Benoit, honestly. I never liked him as a wrestler, and I couldn't stand him after he murdered his family. But I think in people's haste to villify him (and he deserves it), they show a fundamental lack of understanding of CTE. Which is not to say CTE is 100% to blame and Benoit is off the hook, but it is a big factor in it I feel. But again, I go back to Arron Sears. He was a guy who came into the NFL clean as can be. Super nice kid, everyone liked him, never in trouble with the law. He was a good young lineman, then he had a couple concussions, one really bad one and quietly retired very early. The information surrounding the situation was oddly quiet. Then reports started coming out that he had total loss of function, that he was harming family members, that he battered a police officer (a felony), and that he was a danger to people around him. You need to understand my side of the argument REALLY clear. This is not a get out of jail free card, something to point to to absolve people of their choices. Which is what is implied with the Hernandez comparison, which is total BS. But when you look at Sears, you see someone who has very serious neurological problems who is acting very out of character and who is a danger to those around him. And Sears had 3 reported concussions through college and the pros. There are players out there who have had 3x as many and are still living normal lives. If you read what these doctors say and watch these specials on CTE, some concussions are different and brains are different. Sears can have less total concussions and still have more severe neurological problems. |
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Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
Posts: 12,104
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Jan 5, 2018 2:13:04 GMT -5
I'd say football was more dangerous in the early years, people were dying at such an alarming rate that Teddy Roosevelt called for reforms to the game. Aaron Hernandez had advanced CTE, but he also had known gang ties from his youth. Is CTE creating the monster, or letting the monster already within them take control? Or is there no real connection at all? Most people with CTE didn't seem to need to murder anyone. Brain damage has been around as long as brains have, and it seemingly hasn't caused too many people to murder their child. Football just went through a billion dollar lawsuit because people were still dying at an alarming rate, only after retirement instead of in games. The amount of retired players with neurological problems is overwhelming. Aaron Hernandez got in trouble at every level since HS. He had ties to 3 murders over several years. That's not really a comparable example, comparing a guy who was a constant criminal for most of his life before the end. Benoit was a guy who seemed to have his shit together for a long while and then went nuts. I mean, this is a guy who was injecting steroids into his autistic son at the end. I just don't think it's that big of a stretch to think he wasn't playing with a full deck of cards. And this is kind of BS. I hate Benoit, honestly. I never liked him as a wrestler, and I couldn't stand him after he murdered his family. But I think in people's haste to villify him (and he deserves it), they show a fundamental lack of understanding of CTE. Which is not to say CTE is 100% to blame and Benoit is off the hook, but it is a big factor in it I feel. But again, I go back to Arron Sears. He was a guy who came into the NFL clean as can be. Super nice kid, everyone liked him, never in trouble with the law. He was a good young lineman, then he had a couple concussions, one really bad one and quietly retired very early. The information surrounding the situation was oddly quiet. Then reports started coming out that he had total loss of function, that he was harming family members, that he battered a police officer (a felony), and that he was a danger to people around him. You need to understand my side of the argument REALLY clear. This is not a get out of jail free card, something to point to to absolve people of their choices. Which is what is implied with the Hernandez comparison, which is total BS. But when you look at Sears, you see someone who has very serious neurological problems who is acting very out of character and who is a danger to those around him. And Sears had 3 reported concussions through college and the pros. There are players out there who have had 3x as many and are still living normal lives. If you read what these doctors say and watch these specials on CTE, some concussions are different and brains are different. Sears can have less total concussions and still have more severe neurological problems. Fair enough, I get where you're coming from now. I wonder what issues (if any) were hidden beneath the surface to begin with though, psychopaths can seem to be friendly and charming. I don't doubt that brain damage was a factor, just to what degree. |
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jan 5, 2018 4:56:06 GMT -5
I would give him two years tops before dying from either a heart attack or CTE related suicide.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Jan 6, 2018 6:41:34 GMT -5
This is such a tragic event. Benoit was my favourite wrestler. This destroyed me.
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