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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 14:48:23 GMT -5
Here's your problem; you keep using that as your argument, saying that if he had good matches in 2015, he will still have them. That was three years ago. Three years is negligible for a guy in his late 20s or early 30s, but once you reach 45+, it makes a world of difference. This logical fallacy can easily be remedied by watching two matches last year; the Royal Rumble, & Mania with Roman. In the Royal Rumble, they used every shortcut they could use & he looked very awful, as he was hobbling around and struggling to lift without grimacing. WrestleMania had the worst final match in modern history. The Rumble is legally up on YouTube & the Mania match will be in a few weeks. Go back & examine and then tell me if that's still 2015 Undertaker. The hobbling you speak of was due to the hip, which has been fixed. And again, since his late-2015 run he has only had 2 matches. The Shane match and the Reigns match. I'm not writing off Taker vs. Cena as not capable of having an entertaining 15-20 minute 3 to 4 star match. And, again, you seem to believe that a new hip means Undertaker is back to a more acceptable self. How people react to hip replacement or hip repair surgeries differs. Some people fail entirely, while other can thrive. I don't know what he will be, but honestly, I do not want to see fate tempted. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 14:54:39 GMT -5
but even then it's not like he's gotta lose to put someone over. Dean vs. Brock should have put Dean over as the terminator that could take mass amounts of punishment to put down... but Brock didn't want to do any of that... even if the WWE went with the Dean totally took Brock to the limit storyline... but that entire Wrestlemania seemed like it was non-canon. I'm not even a huge Ambrose mark, but that was brutal. Everyone talks about "missed chances" with this company, well, Ambrose taking an ass kicking and coming back for more, and really, *really* pushing Brock to the limit, could have been a 'bloody Austin in the Sharpshooter' moment. But instead, Brock acted like a little bitch and the moment, and what was actually a decent build, was sacrificed. Yea, and credit to WWE for continuing to try to push the narrative that Ambrose took Lesnar to the limit but everyone with eyes saw that wasn't the case. He wasn't willing to play ball in that instance which Dean was and I think still is pissed about |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 14:56:11 GMT -5
The hobbling you speak of was due to the hip, which has been fixed. And again, since his late-2015 run he has only had 2 matches. The Shane match and the Reigns match. I'm not writing off Taker vs. Cena as not capable of having an entertaining 15-20 minute 3 to 4 star match. And, again, you seem to believe that a new hip means Undertaker is back to a more acceptable self. How people react to hip replacement or hip repair surgeries differs. Some people fail entirely, while other can thrive. I don't know what he will be, but honestly, I do not want to see fate tempted. Right. Besides that as well, Taker gets something fixed every year after Mania He's breaking down, it's really that simple and he's tempting fate with getting back in the ring each time and the results we are getting is the Taker we got last year which looked old, slow and couldn't keep up |
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 11, 2018 15:00:49 GMT -5
I'm not even a huge Ambrose mark, but that was brutal. Everyone talks about "missed chances" with this company, well, Ambrose taking an ass kicking and coming back for more, and really, *really* pushing Brock to the limit, could have been a 'bloody Austin in the Sharpshooter' moment. But instead, Brock acted like a little bitch and the moment, and what was actually a decent build, was sacrificed. Yea, and credit to WWE for continuing to try to push the narrative that Ambrose took Lesnar to the limit but everyone with eyes saw that wasn't the case. He wasn't willing to play ball in that instance which Dean was and I think still is pissed about And I don't blame him. I'm not suggesting he'd be the next Austin/Rock/Cena/whoever, but had that match been booked differently, I'm 100% convinced that Ambrose would be in a far better spot than he is now |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 15:05:25 GMT -5
Yea, and credit to WWE for continuing to try to push the narrative that Ambrose took Lesnar to the limit but everyone with eyes saw that wasn't the case. He wasn't willing to play ball in that instance which Dean was and I think still is pissed about And I don't blame him. I'm not suggesting he'd be the next Austin/Rock/Cena/whoever, but had that match been booked differently, I'm 100% convinced that Ambrose would be in a far better spot than he is now Hmm I mean I don't think you can get in a much better spot than you are with Ambrose He's the 1B to Reigns 1 and Rollins 1A. He's also reliable and steady until this recent injury he's been a non stop machine. However, I get what you are saying in terms of "making him" and that goes on his video package Ultimately, WWE understood and has kept the course with him but that match was a big missed opportunity |
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 11, 2018 15:05:28 GMT -5
The hobbling you speak of was due to the hip, which has been fixed. And again, since his late-2015 run he has only had 2 matches. The Shane match and the Reigns match. I'm not writing off Taker vs. Cena as not capable of having an entertaining 15-20 minute 3 to 4 star match. But is bringing in a older and hobbled Undertaker really worth a 3 star match? I can throw Heath Slater vs Cesaro out there and expect more than that I think you're missing the point of wrestling if you think Cesaro vs. Heath Slater is in anyway comparable just because they could put on a technically-sound match. Slater-Cesaro won't have an atmosphere rivaling Rock-Hogan like Taker-Cena will. |
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 11, 2018 15:06:51 GMT -5
The hobbling you speak of was due to the hip, which has been fixed. And again, since his late-2015 run he has only had 2 matches. The Shane match and the Reigns match. I'm not writing off Taker vs. Cena as not capable of having an entertaining 15-20 minute 3 to 4 star match. And, again, you seem to believe that a new hip means Undertaker is back to a more acceptable self. How people react to hip replacement or hip repair surgeries differs. Some people fail entirely, while other can thrive. I don't know what he will be, but honestly, I do not want to see fate tempted. Fate tempted? That's a bit much. He wants to have another match. His last match wasn't billed as a retirement match like Flair's and it wasn't a 5-star classic like HBK's, so I don't think you're risking anything going with Taker-Cena. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:09:35 GMT -5
Short of The Rock wrestling again, Cena/Undertaker is still probably the biggest money match WWE can do right now but it’s crazy how even bigger it would have been 4 years ago.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 15:10:28 GMT -5
But is bringing in a older and hobbled Undertaker really worth a 3 star match? I can throw Heath Slater vs Cesaro out there and expect more than that I think you're missing the point of wrestling if you think Cesaro vs. Heath Slater is in anyway comparable just because they could put on a technically-sound match. Slater-Cesaro won't have an atmosphere rivaling Rock-Hogan like Taker-Cena will. Read what I said again and come back I asked is there a point in bringing in Undertaker for a 3 star match because if I wanted that I could throw those two out there Atmosphere is great and all but I want some type of delivery and having Taker hobble around to an at best 3 star match isn't going to cut it imo I want to be wrong about them having a good match but I just don't see it. Taker is 52 years old and Father Time is undefeated |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:11:07 GMT -5
hopefully these matches are back to back to close the show so that I can check out early.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:14:46 GMT -5
Taker and Cena both lost to Reigns this past year. Taker was embarrassed in that match and had a sendoff while Cena walked all over Reigns during promos but then got every single move of his crushed in their match, the guy did like 18 finishers and still got beat by 1 Spear. This is like seeing 2017 Lil Wayne go against 2017 50. Someone ain’t heard Dedication 6. Still need to hear the full thing but from what little I heard Wayne goes off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:15:09 GMT -5
And, again, you seem to believe that a new hip means Undertaker is back to a more acceptable self. How people react to hip replacement or hip repair surgeries differs. Some people fail entirely, while other can thrive. I don't know what he will be, but honestly, I do not want to see fate tempted. Fate tempted? That's a bit much. He wants to have another match. His last match wasn't billed as a retirement match like Flair's and it wasn't a 5-star classic like HBK's, so I don't think you're risking anything going with Taker-Cena. Not everybody is able to go out on their own terms. Except they treated the ending last year like a retirement. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:16:01 GMT -5
Both of those sound boring as hell.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 15:18:23 GMT -5
And, again, you seem to believe that a new hip means Undertaker is back to a more acceptable self. How people react to hip replacement or hip repair surgeries differs. Some people fail entirely, while other can thrive. I don't know what he will be, but honestly, I do not want to see fate tempted. Fate tempted? That's a bit much. He wants to have another match. His last match wasn't billed as a retirement match like Flair's and it wasn't a 5-star classic like HBK's, so I don't think you're risking anything going with Taker-Cena. It wasn't billed like a retirement but it sure was treated like one Taker broke away from his gimmick at the end of the show, kissing his wife and left his coat and jacket in the ring The only thing left he needed to do was take off his boots and leave those in the ring and announce to the crowd i'm done for the picture to be fully formed? |
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 11, 2018 15:42:54 GMT -5
Fate tempted? That's a bit much. He wants to have another match. His last match wasn't billed as a retirement match like Flair's and it wasn't a 5-star classic like HBK's, so I don't think you're risking anything going with Taker-Cena. It wasn't billed like a retirement but it sure was treated like one Taker broke away from his gimmick at the end of the show, kissing his wife and left his coat and jacket in the ring The only thing left he needed to do was take off his boots and leave those in the ring and announce to the crowd i'm done for the picture to be fully formed? Obviously it was intended to potentially be his retirement match as he didn't know how he'd feel after hip replacement. But they never confirmed his retirement because it was up in the air. Indications are he feels great now after the surgery. |
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 11, 2018 15:44:40 GMT -5
I think you're missing the point of wrestling if you think Cesaro vs. Heath Slater is in anyway comparable just because they could put on a technically-sound match. Slater-Cesaro won't have an atmosphere rivaling Rock-Hogan like Taker-Cena will. Read what I said again and come back I asked is there a point in bringing in Undertaker for a 3 star match because if I wanted that I could throw those two out there Atmosphere is great and all but I want some type of delivery and having Taker hobble around to an at best 3 star match isn't going to cut it imo I want to be wrong about them having a good match but I just don't see it. Taker is 52 years old and Father Time is undefeated I read what you said. The atmosphere adds everything to the match. Cesaro and Slater can go on Main Event and have a fairly heatless 3 star match but Taker and Cena will have the crowd in the palms of their hands similar to Rock-Hogan so the workrate willl be secondary. |
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jan 11, 2018 15:54:49 GMT -5
It's insane to think the amount of money they left on the table by never having Superman-era Cena vs Undertaker with the streak at stake.
The closest we got was Lesnar/'Taker in what would be the end of the thing, but hell, we forget, that Brock's aura had been so damaged in 2012/2013, that we all half-expected it to be a hard-fought 'Taker win. It added to the shock, in hindsight, but we never really got that credible superman versus the streak deal that could've been with Cena/Taker.
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Post by walterharrow on Jan 11, 2018 15:59:01 GMT -5
I know that no one, including Undertaker, said that his match with Reigns was his final match and that he was retired but that's exactly what it felt it. It was a perfect sendoff for the character (besides the loss) and having him return ruins that. It would be like Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels coming back for one more match
What does he do? Does he win and then disappear again? Does he lose yet again and repeat the same goodbye for no reason at all?
If he is coming back, wouldn't it make more sense for him to target Roman Reigns?
Undertaker returning for one more match just doesn't make sense in any way
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 15:59:34 GMT -5
Taker 2 years ago had a great match with Lesnar. Taker hasn't worked with a wrestler as good as Cena since his Punk match. I'm sure this will be a good match. Not HBK-Taker but a solid 3-4 star affair. I highly doubt it. Taker has not had a great match since HHH. His Brock match was trash tho he had a concussion, Bray was only okay, and punk was good Roman can work but Taker body is washed. Not even AJ Styles can get a good match out of him at this point He has two great matches with Bork in 2015 |
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 16:00:59 GMT -5
I said good, not great match. And I was referring to the rematches he had with Lesnar in late-2015. Looked up reviews for Summerslam 2015 and the match with Lesnar got 4 stars and 3.75 stars in the 2 reviews I saw. The rematch at Hell in a Cell got 4.25 and 4 stars. Okay but still that’s 2015 and this is 2018. Taker fell off a cliff last year. Brock and Taker had some good matches in 2015 but off my eyes recently Taker is washed and I can’t see too much denial in that He even has the “old man body” now He’d look younger if he cut his hair short too |
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