WON: The 2 top matches at WM are...

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

Jan 11, 2018 17:32:47 GMT -5 @kn said:

Hmm...

Has there ever been an accomplishment of Roman's that is solely his or at least his version is the best one? Out of all the Shield guys Roman's first win is the worst, most eliminations are trash, Lesnar matches are the worst and it goes on and on. It's really made me think. There's something that a lot of major guys have that's theirs and stands out but in Roman's case even his accomplishments don't measure up to everyone else's. How sad is it that even dude's accomplishments, the thing that's supposed to help identify him, just make him more in the crowd?

That's sad.

The dude is a failure because of how mass produced everything is about him. He can't cut a good promo, his moveset is by the numbers. He isn't awful as a worker but he is nothing special. He's good for a buzzword every now and again "I'm THE GUY", "THIS IS MY YARD NOW", etc. 

The problem is Roman is not someone they can build their future around just because he has the genes of one of the most successful wrestlers/entertainers to ever lace up the boots in The Rock. And they have hamfisted every single thing Roman has got and none of it feels genuine. He hasn't worked for anything to get organically over, he's just fed commentary praise, opponent after opponent, legend after legend, title after title, and getting out of losing clean time and time again because Roman needs to look strong. 

He is the poster boy Vince stubbornly wants but a large majority of the fans even more so than Cena at his super peak do not want to see be the flag bearer for the company when he's so overpushed and underdeveloped. Seriously all we're told is that he's amazing he's THE BIG DAAAAWG and we should cheer for the super badass and ignore all the boos cause Roman is great and beats everyone. This is the 80's WWF Hulk Hogan mentality if Hogan was hated. It worked them because Wrestling was an overbooked cartoon of itself with larger than life characters. Having moved into an era now where there is such a larger influx of talent, falling back on that crutch if you can call it that, is idiotic and has only lead to Roman looking absolutely terrible. What even hurts this further is Rusev gets RUSEV DAY organically over, crowds are cheering him in every venue, number one selling product in the shop. What have they done? Keep him and English heels and they just lost to Breezango this week. It's blatant favoritism and it's sickening. Why even try to get over and do different shit when it doesn't ever seen to matter to them? When Roman can just go out there and breathe and be handed a midcard belt? It's Bullshit dude.

Roman never grew from The Shield, a gimmick that if you believe CM Punk, he was thrust into instead of Kassius Ohno, a man who is still stuck in NXT having great match after great effing match. He still has the vest, the music, and while Seth and Dean grew as people and in their own angles of struggle and triumph, Roman just triumphs, and if he struggles a little bit, they ensure the dude he's facing gets nuked to make up for it. Roman has no equal, he has no obstacle, he is what basically constitutes as a Boring Efed Character who wins every title and beats everyone else and you go... "Now what?" 

And that is what will happen when Roman beats Lesnar at Mania, Now What? You gave Roman his five thousandth "Coronation", the boos aren't going away, Roman is still a flat stale character, and no one on the roster has been booked even close to his level to believable keep him down for the one two three. 

Roman Reigns is a detriment to the WWE more than The Guy, and that's not his fault, it's theirs.   

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2018 17:46:56 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

Jan 11, 2018 17:32:47 GMT -5 @kn said:

Hmm...

Has there ever been an accomplishment of Roman's that is solely his or at least his version is the best one? Out of all the Shield guys Roman's first win is the worst, most eliminations are trash, Lesnar matches are the worst and it goes on and on. It's really made me think. There's something that a lot of major guys have that's theirs and stands out but in Roman's case even his accomplishments don't measure up to everyone else's. How sad is it that even dude's accomplishments, the thing that's supposed to help identify him, just make him more in the crowd?

That's sad.

The dude is a failure because of how mass produced everything is about him. He can't cut a good promo, his moveset is by the numbers. He isn't awful as a worker but he is nothing special. He's good for a buzzword every now and again "I'm THE GUY", "THIS IS MY YARD NOW", etc. 

The problem is Roman is not someone they can build their future around just because he has the genes of one of the most successful wrestlers/entertainers to ever lace up the boots in The Rock. And they have hamfisted every single thing Roman has got and none of it feels genuine. He hasn't worked for anything to get organically over, he's just fed commentary praise, opponent after opponent, legend after legend, title after title, and getting out of losing clean time and time again because Roman needs to look strong. 

He is the poster boy Vince stubbornly wants but a large majority of the fans even more so than Cena at his super peak do not want to see be the flag bearer for the company when he's so overpushed and underdeveloped. Seriously all we're told is that he's amazing he's THE BIG DAAAAWG and we should cheer for the super badass and ignore all the boos cause Roman is great and beats everyone. This is the 80's WWF Hulk Hogan mentality if Hogan was hated. It worked them because Wrestling was an overbooked cartoon of itself with larger than life characters. Having moved into an era now where there is such a larger influx of talent, falling back on that crutch if you can call it that, is idiotic and has only lead to Roman looking absolutely terrible. What even hurts this further is Rusev gets RUSEV DAY organically over, crowds are cheering him in every venue, number one selling product in the shop. What have they done? Keep him and English heels and they just lost to Breezango this week. It's blatant favoritism and it's sickening. Why even try to get over and do different shit when it doesn't ever seen to matter to them? When Roman can just go out there and breathe and be handed a midcard belt? It's Bullshit dude.

Roman never grew from The Shield, a gimmick that if you believe CM Punk, he was thrust into instead of Kassius Ohno, a man who is still stuck in NXT having great match after great effing match. He still has the vest, the music, and while Seth and Dean grew as people and in their own angles of struggle and triumph, Roman just triumphs, and if he struggles a little bit, they ensure the dude he's facing gets nuked to make up for it. Roman has no equal, he has no obstacle, he is what basically constitutes as a Boring Efed Character who wins every title and beats everyone else and you go... "Now what?" 

And that is what will happen when Roman beats Lesnar at Mania, Now What? You gave Roman his five thousandth "Coronation", the boos aren't going away, Roman is still a flat stale character, and no one on the roster has been booked even close to his level to believable keep him down for the one two three. 

Roman Reigns is a detriment to the WWE more than The Guy, and that's not his fault, it's theirs.   

Amazing post.

When you think about it Roman's exactly their idea of a major superstar in today's era. Like Orton and Cena were their ideas of major stars in the previous decade, Roman is this version's. The CAW of today's WWE. He's gotta have a certain look to him and by that he's a decent height, decent build and he's got some type of "edge" to him so you can show that with facial hair because these days that's a positive. He's got long flowing hair as well so that makes his look work. He got over through The Shield so you keep the gear on him and then bring The Shield back in case Roman's doggy paddling in the water. He's got a symbol that's mysteriously similar to The Hardyz but either way he can use that for his merch (even though his Superman pose is very similar to AJ's Phenomenal Forearm).

Look at his lineage and friends next. He's connected to The Samoan Dynasty and besides that his family's currently working but at the same time Roman's got a unique enough look to standout from them. He's teaming with Ambrose and Rollins who were the two standout stars in FCW who both came up with Roman. They've earned their stripes in the indies so they've got the hardcore fans behind them and besides going in the ring, they can go on the mic (Ambrose especially) so if there's any one who can help Reigns learn along the way, these 2 can do it. Luckily they're all pretty much the same age as well so you can put Roman with them and see him soak it up.

Now you've got a guy on the main roster who's all about that good ol "hard work and hustling for the team" mentality. Reign is no stranger to hardwork, he's about that which is great but besides that he states he's here for the whole team. He's had a football background so when you in the office hears that? That's another plus for him. This isn't a negative though as all guys need to be this so that's good but the problem is even though Reigns says he's all about making everyone better, the company is not about that. They might say that in their interviews and their board meetings but they're only about the main guy right now ala Reigns. With that said Reigns has improved little by little from his ringwork to his attitude SLIGHTLY but most importantly? He's improved with public relations. In the beginning The Shield Reigns wasn't that great in interviews outside of the ring but over time he's improved in that. Out of everything he's improved in that's been the one with the most improvement and more than likely I'd say they just gave him some bullet points and told him to figure it out and he eventually did. That's a plus.

His ringwork...has improved a great amount. In the company's eyes, like Cena said years ago, they've moved towards a more in-ring product and Reigns is just good enough that they can give him a gold star on his report. He's not the best but he's really good and that's great enough for them. He's also got catchphrases. You need a catchphrase and this guy's got like 3 of em now.

I know I'm missing a lot of stuff but overall Reigns has so many boxes on lock that we can see why they keep pushing him above everyone else. It's like the perfect storm in their eyes. It doesn't matter if he fails in his matches, his promos, his angles, if he can't compare to others, it doesn't matter because to them? This is why he's in this spot.

Sadly they don't look at it from afar like we all do because once you do that you can see all the empty holes in the guy. It's sad they've ruined him. This is a guy we were cheering for in that Rumble match and now it's a guy we don't want to be world champion or even take out Brock Lesnar, someone who's stopped our favorites plenty of times. That. Is. Sad.

They've really f***ed up his character.

[héad.casé]

I actually like Roman, good look, awesome brawler when it comes to gimmick matches, dude can go. To think if WWE had listened and turned him a couple of years ago when the hate was at it's worst, he'd probably be over as a face again by now. Look at how quickly everyone turned around on the Uso's when they turned. They're faces again about a year after their turn. This could've been Roman if they'd listened to the reactions and let him do his thing.

[Toilet Paper Roll]

Taker/Cena five years too late.

Just throwing two big names together and saying "here you go"

[chazraps]

Jan 11, 2018 11:15:48 GMT -5 @kn said:

Taker and Cena both lost to Reigns this past year. Taker was embarrassed in that match and had a sendoff while Cena walked all over Reigns during promos but then got every single move of his crushed in their match, the guy did like 18 finishers and still got beat by 1 Spear.

This is like seeing 2017 Lil Wayne go against 2017 50.

One is going to no-show and one is going to gift me a delicious vodka?

[Jiren]

The only match that'll make me consider watching Mania is Nakamura/Styles.

These two matches, nah

[EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese]

In my opinion, Reigns is the push they may have screwed up the most out of anyone. And that’s because, in giving him every opportunity to succeed, he’s bearing the brunt of over a decade’s worth of reluctance to go all the way with other (in most case, arguably better) talents, many for Cena’s run but a lot for Reigns, too.

If they had a better track record in closing out hot angles, going with the hot hands and generally being more flexible to crowd reactions with their main event talents, then I’m certain there wouldn’t be as much resentment for Reigns because we’d know most everyone else got their fair shakes. Instead, you’re left with a guy who’s a solid f***ing hand in the ring, put in the spotlight as the face of a heel wrestling company.

(Take a screen cap, because that’s about as critical as I usually get )

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2018 18:44:53 GMT -5 chazraps said:

Jan 11, 2018 11:15:48 GMT -5 @kn said:

Taker and Cena both lost to Reigns this past year. Taker was embarrassed in that match and had a sendoff while Cena walked all over Reigns during promos but then got every single move of his crushed in their match, the guy did like 18 finishers and still got beat by 1 Spear.

This is like seeing 2017 Lil Wayne go against 2017 50.

One is going to no-show and one is going to gift me a delicious vodka?

One's stuck on social media messing around while the other you don't hear about unless it relates to bad news.

[Dub H]

Jan 11, 2018 18:51:28 GMT -5 EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese said:

In my opinion, Reigns is the push they may have screwed up the most out of anyone. And that’s because, in giving him every opportunity to succeed, he’s bearing the brunt of over a decade’s worth of reluctance to go all the way with other (in most case, arguably better) talents, many for Cena’s run but a lot for Reigns, too.

If they had a better track record in closing out hot angles, going with the hot hands and generally being more flexible to crowd reactions with their main event talents, then I’m certain there wouldn’t be as much resentment for Reigns because we’d know most everyone else got their fair shakes. Instead, you’re left with a guy who’s a solid f***ing hand in the ring, put in the spotlight as the face of a heel wrestling company.

(Take a screen cap, because that’s about as critical as I usually get )

If only they gave

Ryback

Ziggler

Ambrose

Samoa Joe

Braun


The pushes when they were red hot.There is so many opportunities wasted (and not just because they have to push Reigns) that it isn't even funny anymore

[chazraps]

Who Jackie?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 11, 2018 17:46:56 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

Jan 11, 2018 17:32:47 GMT -5 @kn said:

Hmm...

Has there ever been an accomplishment of Roman's that is solely his or at least his version is the best one? Out of all the Shield guys Roman's first win is the worst, most eliminations are trash, Lesnar matches are the worst and it goes on and on. It's really made me think. There's something that a lot of major guys have that's theirs and stands out but in Roman's case even his accomplishments don't measure up to everyone else's. How sad is it that even dude's accomplishments, the thing that's supposed to help identify him, just make him more in the crowd?

That's sad.

The dude is a failure because of how mass produced everything is about him. He can't cut a good promo, his moveset is by the numbers. He isn't awful as a worker but he is nothing special. He's good for a buzzword every now and again "I'm THE GUY", "THIS IS MY YARD NOW", etc. 

The problem is Roman is not someone they can build their future around just because he has the genes of one of the most successful wrestlers/entertainers to ever lace up the boots in The Rock. And they have hamfisted every single thing Roman has got and none of it feels genuine. He hasn't worked for anything to get organically over, he's just fed commentary praise, opponent after opponent, legend after legend, title after title, and getting out of losing clean time and time again because Roman needs to look strong. 

He is the poster boy Vince stubbornly wants but a large majority of the fans even more so than Cena at his super peak do not want to see be the flag bearer for the company when he's so overpushed and underdeveloped. Seriously all we're told is that he's amazing he's THE BIG DAAAAWG and we should cheer for the super badass and ignore all the boos cause Roman is great and beats everyone. This is the 80's WWF Hulk Hogan mentality if Hogan was hated. It worked them because Wrestling was an overbooked cartoon of itself with larger than life characters. Having moved into an era now where there is such a larger influx of talent, falling back on that crutch if you can call it that, is idiotic and has only lead to Roman looking absolutely terrible. What even hurts this further is Rusev gets RUSEV DAY organically over, crowds are cheering him in every venue, number one selling product in the shop. What have they done? Keep him and English heels and they just lost to Breezango this week. It's blatant favoritism and it's sickening. Why even try to get over and do different shit when it doesn't ever seen to matter to them? When Roman can just go out there and breathe and be handed a midcard belt? It's Bullshit dude.

Roman never grew from The Shield, a gimmick that if you believe CM Punk, he was thrust into instead of Kassius Ohno, a man who is still stuck in NXT having great match after great effing match. He still has the vest, the music, and while Seth and Dean grew as people and in their own angles of struggle and triumph, Roman just triumphs, and if he struggles a little bit, they ensure the dude he's facing gets nuked to make up for it. Roman has no equal, he has no obstacle, he is what basically constitutes as a Boring Efed Character who wins every title and beats everyone else and you go... "Now what?" 

And that is what will happen when Roman beats Lesnar at Mania, Now What? You gave Roman his five thousandth "Coronation", the boos aren't going away, Roman is still a flat stale character, and no one on the roster has been booked even close to his level to believable keep him down for the one two three. 

Roman Reigns is a detriment to the WWE more than The Guy, and that's not his fault, it's theirs.   

I want to disagree but I can't

The only real thing I can say is they've f***ed over his push more than people will admit so in their attempt to make him The Guy they've also f***ed over doing that same thing

Dude is talented and deserves to be at the top of the card but the square they tried to fit him into a circle is not working

[fw91]

there is still the HHH match and the Shane match that needs to be booked.

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

Jan 11, 2018 18:51:28 GMT -5 EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese said:

In my opinion, Reigns is the push they may have screwed up the most out of anyone. And that’s because, in giving him every opportunity to succeed, he’s bearing the brunt of over a decade’s worth of reluctance to go all the way with other (in most case, arguably better) talents, many for Cena’s run but a lot for Reigns, too.

If they had a better track record in closing out hot angles, going with the hot hands and generally being more flexible to crowd reactions with their main event talents, then I’m certain there wouldn’t be as much resentment for Reigns because we’d know most everyone else got their fair shakes. Instead, you’re left with a guy who’s a solid f***ing hand in the ring, put in the spotlight as the face of a heel wrestling company.

(Take a screen cap, because that’s about as critical as I usually get )

I want this shit framed on my wall. You know something is wrong when Excellence joins "The Dark Side"

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

Jan 11, 2018 19:16:32 GMT -5 fw91 said:

there is still the HHH match and the Shane match that needs to be booked.

Which will bump the card to four matches I can Nakamura Eyeroll at.

[sfvega]

I remember when WM was about giving the fans what they wanted. It is now. Let's go Reigns! /s

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 11, 2018 19:16:32 GMT -5 fw91 said:

there is still the HHH match and the Shane match that needs to be booked.

Watch them do HHH vs Strowman

and for Shane/DB we will get some type of tag match like Randy/ vs KO/Sami for control of SD

[Gus Richlen: Ruffian]

Jan 11, 2018 18:56:20 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 11, 2018 17:46:56 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

The dude is a failure because of how mass produced everything is about him. He can't cut a good promo, his moveset is by the numbers. He isn't awful as a worker but he is nothing special. He's good for a buzzword every now and again "I'm THE GUY", "THIS IS MY YARD NOW", etc. 

The problem is Roman is not someone they can build their future around just because he has the genes of one of the most successful wrestlers/entertainers to ever lace up the boots in The Rock. And they have hamfisted every single thing Roman has got and none of it feels genuine. He hasn't worked for anything to get organically over, he's just fed commentary praise, opponent after opponent, legend after legend, title after title, and getting out of losing clean time and time again because Roman needs to look strong. 

He is the poster boy Vince stubbornly wants but a large majority of the fans even more so than Cena at his super peak do not want to see be the flag bearer for the company when he's so overpushed and underdeveloped. Seriously all we're told is that he's amazing he's THE BIG DAAAAWG and we should cheer for the super badass and ignore all the boos cause Roman is great and beats everyone. This is the 80's WWF Hulk Hogan mentality if Hogan was hated. It worked them because Wrestling was an overbooked cartoon of itself with larger than life characters. Having moved into an era now where there is such a larger influx of talent, falling back on that crutch if you can call it that, is idiotic and has only lead to Roman looking absolutely terrible. What even hurts this further is Rusev gets RUSEV DAY organically over, crowds are cheering him in every venue, number one selling product in the shop. What have they done? Keep him and English heels and they just lost to Breezango this week. It's blatant favoritism and it's sickening. Why even try to get over and do different shit when it doesn't ever seen to matter to them? When Roman can just go out there and breathe and be handed a midcard belt? It's Bullshit dude.

Roman never grew from The Shield, a gimmick that if you believe CM Punk, he was thrust into instead of Kassius Ohno, a man who is still stuck in NXT having great match after great effing match. He still has the vest, the music, and while Seth and Dean grew as people and in their own angles of struggle and triumph, Roman just triumphs, and if he struggles a little bit, they ensure the dude he's facing gets nuked to make up for it. Roman has no equal, he has no obstacle, he is what basically constitutes as a Boring Efed Character who wins every title and beats everyone else and you go... "Now what?" 

And that is what will happen when Roman beats Lesnar at Mania, Now What? You gave Roman his five thousandth "Coronation", the boos aren't going away, Roman is still a flat stale character, and no one on the roster has been booked even close to his level to believable keep him down for the one two three. 

Roman Reigns is a detriment to the WWE more than The Guy, and that's not his fault, it's theirs.   

I want to disagree but I can't

The only real thing I can say is they've f***ed over his push more than people will admit so in their attempt to make him The Guy they've also f***ed over doing that same thing

Dude is talented and deserves to be at the top of the card but the square they tried to fit him into a circle is not working

I can disagree.

Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful?

Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 11, 2018 19:41:39 GMT -5 Gus Richlen: Ruffian said:

Jan 11, 2018 18:56:20 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

I want to disagree but I can't

The only real thing I can say is they've f***ed over his push more than people will admit so in their attempt to make him The Guy they've also f***ed over doing that same thing

Dude is talented and deserves to be at the top of the card but the square they tried to fit him into a circle is not working

I can disagree.

Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful?

Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try.

You're not wrong

I wouldn't call him some total failure that doesn't deserve to be in his spot because that would be flat out wrong. He deserves to be somewhere at the top of the card or be the guy, the problem lies in the fact as I said they've really done him no favors as whole. They haven't given him this continuous push that he should have as the Number One Guy and then they try overcompensate to justify his spot

As I said some fans won't really say WWE has f***ed up his Number One Guy push because of the "accolades" ignoring the fact as I stated they really go from one extreme to the next with him. Hell, he beat Taker at Mania last year and didn't win a PPV match for like 5 months but all people focused on was how he lost

[EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese]

Jan 11, 2018 19:16:54 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

Jan 11, 2018 18:51:28 GMT -5 EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese said:

In my opinion, Reigns is the push they may have screwed up the most out of anyone. And that’s because, in giving him every opportunity to succeed, he’s bearing the brunt of over a decade’s worth of reluctance to go all the way with other (in most case, arguably better) talents, many for Cena’s run but a lot for Reigns, too.

If they had a better track record in closing out hot angles, going with the hot hands and generally being more flexible to crowd reactions with their main event talents, then I’m certain there wouldn’t be as much resentment for Reigns because we’d know most everyone else got their fair shakes. Instead, you’re left with a guy who’s a solid f***ing hand in the ring, put in the spotlight as the face of a heel wrestling company.

(Take a screen cap, because that’s about as critical as I usually get )

I want this shit framed on my wall. You know something is wrong when Excellence joins "The Dark Side"

I mean, sure, I always go into every angle with an open mind and not let past failures try and dampen my expectations too much (because casual crowds can be surprisingly forgiving if a downtrodden talent gets their momentum back... Look how long it took for them to finally give up on Ziggler). But I’m not stupid. I just try to “pick my spots”, as it were.

[The Trashman]

Taker hasnt had a good match since the HIAC with HHH and HBK as ref. If he comes back and wrestles now it just makes last year look even stupider.