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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 11, 2018 19:55:00 GMT -5
I wanted Taker vs. Cena like 3 or 4 years ago. Now no, Taker had the perfect sendoff last year, why ruin it so he can what do the same send off again and have lesser of of an impact? This is like having HBK comeback at WM 27 for a match after the send off in 26. This would be if the WWE let Flair come back at WM 25 for a match after what they did at 24. Taker of all people who carried for years so much about his character, why now start breaking that?
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 11, 2018 19:57:17 GMT -5
I actually like Roman, good look, awesome brawler when it comes to gimmick matches, dude can go. To think if WWE had listened and turned him a couple of years ago when the hate was at it's worst, he'd probably be over as a face again by now. Look at how quickly everyone turned around on the Uso's when they turned. They're faces again about a year after their turn. This could've been Roman if they'd listened to the reactions and let him do his thing. Hell don't even need to go years ago. go back to the Night after Mania when he was the biggest heel in the building. Run with that... and not just have a stupid line about "haha bizarro land they usually love him!" and then the next week have Roman backtrack with a weakass well of course I totally respect Undertaker... line. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 11, 2018 20:00:14 GMT -5
I actually like Roman, good look, awesome brawler when it comes to gimmick matches, dude can go. To think if WWE had listened and turned him a couple of years ago when the hate was at it's worst, he'd probably be over as a face again by now. Look at how quickly everyone turned around on the Uso's when they turned. They're faces again about a year after their turn. This could've been Roman if they'd listened to the reactions and let him do his thing. Hell don't even need to go years ago. go back to the Night after Mania when he was the biggest heel in the building. Run with that... and not just have a stupid line about "haha bizarro land they usually love him!" and then the next week have Roman backtrack with a weakass well of course I totally respect Undertaker... line. The moment I heard him say that, I’m glad he got destroyed by Braun. I like to think in kayfabe, he got fed up with Roman’s flip flop BS too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 20:10:14 GMT -5
I want to disagree but I can't The only real thing I can say is they've f***ed over his push more than people will admit so in their attempt to make him The Guy they've also f***ed over doing that same thing Dude is talented and deserves to be at the top of the card but the square they tried to fit him into a circle is not working I can disagree.
Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful? Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try. The problem with this is that they've done everything in their power to get Reigns over as The Guy rather than trying to get him over as being "another main eventer" here. This isn't a "they've failed at making Reigns" thing, this is a "they've failed at making him The Guy" thing and that's a fact. They've let him keep the Shield gimmick, given him all these accomplishments such as titles and wins and have even presented his particular matches in such a way that they want the guy to be the "next guy" and I don't see any possible way anyone can argue that it's not a failure. You mention people "giving Reigns a chance" but the reality of the situation is that if he were booked correctly then we wouldn't be saying this and if it worked we wouldn't be saying this. As for them going "all out" with Reigns...dawg...lemme break down every accomplishment of Roman Reigns these past few years... - Roman eliminated 4 out of 5 people and was the Sole Survivor in 2013's Surivor Series match - Roman has the most eliminations in a single Rumble out of anyone which he accomplished in 2014 - Roman is the only member of The Shield to beat CM Punk in a single's match (add onto the stuff Punk said too) in 2014 - Roman won the 2015 Royal Rumble by eliminating Big Show and Kane (guys who were dominating everyone) at the same time - Roman beat Daniel Bryan and Bryan had to give him the "handshake and congratulations, you're the better man" thing directly after so they could get some fans on Roman's side (which didn't work), happened in February 2015 - Roman only lost to Lesnar due to Rollins interfering with their WM31 match, he was straight up about to win - Roman beat HHH at WM32 - Roman lost his first single's match clean to Rollins in 2016 due to him having a Wellness Violation, Roman then lost clean to Ambrose at Battleground in the triple threat and then lost clean to Balor, all of this is due to him having that same Wellness Violation - Roman then won the US Title (as a demotion) directly after that in 2016 - Roman was the first person to pin Strowman in a single's match clean at Fastlane 2017 - Roman beat The Undertaker at WM33 - Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match - Roman lost to Strowman at GBoF 2017 due to the Spear into the ambulance but directly after Roman destroyed Strowman and it was setup as Roman being the overall winner like in their previous match - Roman defeated John Cena after taking 4 AAs one which was a Super AA, 2017 - Roman won the IC Title and became a Grand Slam Champion in 2017 - Roman is already a 3x World Champion and he's about to become Universal Champion which will likely add another mark to his resume which will be something no other has done which will happen in 2018 - Roman will beat Lesnar in 2018 at WM and with that said he'll be the only man to successfully conquer Lesnar since he broke The Streak besides Goldberg (who Lesnar destroyed directly after which, in turn, Goldberg was sacrificed to setup Lesnar who will be sacrificed to setup Roman), mind you Lesnar's ran over Ambrose, Cena, Goldberg, Rollins, Strowman, Joe, Styles, Taker and many many more on his conquest to Roman, everyone has been setup to set this man up for Roman to topple All of these things happened year after year, a steady build. I don't think most people even remember every accomplish he's had because this has been going on for a great while and looking at it laid out like this is insane. You mean to tell me that this isn't going all in? These are things that they only do for "The Guy" and in that sense yeah that boy is a failure. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 20:19:47 GMT -5
I actually like Roman, good look, awesome brawler when it comes to gimmick matches, dude can go. To think if WWE had listened and turned him a couple of years ago when the hate was at it's worst, he'd probably be over as a face again by now. Look at how quickly everyone turned around on the Uso's when they turned. They're faces again about a year after their turn. This could've been Roman if they'd listened to the reactions and let him do his thing. So true They just should have turned him a year or two again and then he’d probably be an organically over face by now. It would give him an edge like Austin and rock has transitioning from heel to anti hero |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 20:21:09 GMT -5
In my opinion, Reigns is the push they may have screwed up the most out of anyone. And that’s because, in giving him every opportunity to succeed, he’s bearing the brunt of over a decade’s worth of reluctance to go all the way with other (in most case, arguably better) talents, many for Cena’s run but a lot for Reigns, too. If they had a better track record in closing out hot angles, going with the hot hands and generally being more flexible to crowd reactions with their main event talents, then I’m certain there wouldn’t be as much resentment for Reigns because we’d know most everyone else got their fair shakes. Instead, you’re left with a guy who’s a solid f***ing hand in the ring, put in the spotlight as the face of a heel wrestling company. (Take a screen cap, because that’s about as critical as I usually get  ) If only they gave Ryback Ziggler Ambrose Samoa Joe Braun The pushes when they were red hot.There is so many opportunities wasted (and not just because they have to push Reigns) that it isn't even funny anymore Lesnar should put over braun at summerslam in a war I hope |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 20:22:17 GMT -5
there is still the HHH match and the Shane match that needs to be booked. Imagine if Steph has a match too ... |
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Jan 11, 2018 20:23:13 GMT -5
I can disagree.
Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful? Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try. The problem with this is that they've done everything in their power to get Reigns over as The Guy rather than trying to get him over as being "another main eventer" here. This isn't a "they've failed at making Reigns" thing, this is a "they've failed at making him The Guy" thing and that's a fact. They've let him keep the Shield gimmick, given him all these accomplishments such as titles and wins and have even presented his particular matches in such a way that they want the guy to be the "next guy" and I don't see any possible way anyone can argue that it's not a failure. You mention people "giving Reigns a chance" but the reality of the situation is that if he were booked correctly then we wouldn't be saying this and if it worked we wouldn't be saying this. As for them going "all out" with Reigns...dawg...lemme break down every accomplishment of Roman Reigns these past few years... - Roman eliminated 4 out of 5 people and was the Sole Survivor in 2013's Surivor Series match - Roman has the most eliminations in a single Rumble out of anyone which he accomplished in 2014 - Roman is the only member of The Shield to beat CM Punk in a single's match (add onto the stuff Punk said too) in 2014 - Roman won the 2015 Royal Rumble by eliminating Big Show and Kane (guys who were dominating everyone) at the same time - Roman beat Daniel Bryan and Bryan had to give him the "handshake and congratulations, you're the better man" thing directly after so they could get some fans on Roman's side (which didn't work), happened in February 2015 - Roman only lost to Lesnar due to Rollins interfering with their WM31 match, he was straight up about to win - Roman beat HHH at WM32 - Roman lost his first single's match clean to Rollins in 2016 due to him having a Wellness Violation, Roman then lost clean to Ambrose at Battleground in the triple threat and then lost clean to Balor, all of this is due to him having that same Wellness Violation - Roman then won the US Title (as a demotion) directly after that in 2016 - Roman was the first person to pin Strowman in a single's match clean at Fastlane 2017 - Roman beat The Undertaker at WM33 - Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match - Roman lost to Strowman at GBoF 2017 due to the Spear into the ambulance but directly after Roman destroyed Strowman and it was setup as Roman being the overall winner like in their previous match - Roman defeated John Cena after taking 4 AAs one which was a Super AA, 2017 - Roman won the IC Title and became a Grand Slam Champion in 2017 - Roman is already a 3x World Champion and he's about to become Universal Champion which will likely add another mark to his resume which will be something no other has done which will happen in 2018 - Roman will beat Lesnar in 2018 at WM and with that said he'll be the only man to successfully conquer Lesnar since he broke The Streak besides Goldberg (who Lesnar destroyed directly after which, in turn, Goldberg was sacrificed to setup Lesnar who will be sacrificed to setup Roman), mind you Lesnar's ran over Ambrose, Cena, Goldberg, Strowman, Joe, Styles, Taker and many many more on his conquest to Roman, everyone has been setup to set this man up for Roman to topple All of these things happened year after year, a steady build. I don't think most people even remember every accomplish he's had because this has been going on for a great while and looking at it laid out like this is insane. You mean to tell me that this isn't going all in? These are things that they only do for "The Guy" and in that sense yeah that boy is a failure. Yes, I do mean to tell you that. WWE has retreated almost every single time because of fan complaints, and the one time they didn't, he shot himself in the foot with a Wellness violation. None of those mean anything when they don't want to risk upsetting the fans and so keep holding him back. So no, his push isn't a failure because they're never able to keep going long enough to actually DO anything. Just because they've done stuff doesn't mean he's getting this horrible megapush. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 20:27:41 GMT -5
I can disagree.
Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful? Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try. The problem with this is that they've done everything in their power to get Reigns over as The Guy rather than trying to get him over as being "another main eventer" here. This isn't a "they've failed at making Reigns" thing, this is a "they've failed at making him The Guy" thing and that's a fact. They've let him keep the Shield gimmick, given him all these accomplishments such as titles and wins and have even presented his particular matches in such a way that they want the guy to be the "next guy" and I don't see any possible way anyone can argue that it's not a failure. You mention people "giving Reigns a chance" but the reality of the situation is that if he were booked correctly then we wouldn't be saying this and if it worked we wouldn't be saying this. As for them going "all out" with Reigns...dawg...lemme break down every accomplishment of Roman Reigns these past few years... - Roman eliminated 4 out of 5 people and was the Sole Survivor in 2013's Surivor Series match - Roman has the most eliminations in a single Rumble out of anyone which he accomplished in 2014 - Roman is the only member of The Shield to beat CM Punk in a single's match (add onto the stuff Punk said too) in 2014 - Roman won the 2015 Royal Rumble by eliminating Big Show and Kane (guys who were dominating everyone) at the same time - Roman beat Daniel Bryan and Bryan had to give him the "handshake and congratulations, you're the better man" thing directly after so they could get some fans on Roman's side (which didn't work), happened in February 2015 - Roman only lost to Lesnar due to Rollins interfering with their WM31 match, he was straight up about to win - Roman beat HHH at WM32 - Roman lost his first single's match clean to Rollins in 2016 due to him having a Wellness Violation, Roman then lost clean to Ambrose at Battleground in the triple threat and then lost clean to Balor, all of this is due to him having that same Wellness Violation - Roman then won the US Title (as a demotion) directly after that in 2016 - Roman was the first person to pin Strowman in a single's match clean at Fastlane 2017 - Roman beat The Undertaker at WM33 - Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match - Roman lost to Strowman at GBoF 2017 due to the Spear into the ambulance but directly after Roman destroyed Strowman and it was setup as Roman being the overall winner like in their previous match - Roman defeated John Cena after taking 4 AAs one which was a Super AA, 2017 - Roman won the IC Title and became a Grand Slam Champion in 2017 - Roman is already a 3x World Champion and he's about to become Universal Champion which will likely add another mark to his resume which will be something no other has done which will happen in 2018 - Roman will beat Lesnar in 2018 at WM and with that said he'll be the only man to successfully conquer Lesnar since he broke The Streak besides Goldberg (who Lesnar destroyed directly after which, in turn, Goldberg was sacrificed to setup Lesnar who will be sacrificed to setup Roman), mind you Lesnar's ran over Ambrose, Cena, Goldberg, Rollins, Strowman, Joe, Styles, Taker and many many more on his conquest to Roman, everyone has been setup to set this man up for Roman to topple All of these things happened year after year, a steady build. I don't think most people even remember every accomplish he's had because this has been going on for a great while and looking at it laid out like this is insane. You mean to tell me that this isn't going all in? These are things that they only do for "The Guy" and in that sense yeah that boy is a failure. Damn. Puts it in perspective. He was not nesecarily about to beat Lesnar at Mania 31 as Rollins interfered after Lesnar hit a fourth f5. Both were down |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 11, 2018 20:30:03 GMT -5
I recall a Roman coronation before someone cashed in at a summerslam I think with the confetti and all that
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 20:31:50 GMT -5
The problem with this is that they've done everything in their power to get Reigns over as The Guy rather than trying to get him over as being "another main eventer" here. This isn't a "they've failed at making Reigns" thing, this is a "they've failed at making him The Guy" thing and that's a fact. They've let him keep the Shield gimmick, given him all these accomplishments such as titles and wins and have even presented his particular matches in such a way that they want the guy to be the "next guy" and I don't see any possible way anyone can argue that it's not a failure. You mention people "giving Reigns a chance" but the reality of the situation is that if he were booked correctly then we wouldn't be saying this and if it worked we wouldn't be saying this. As for them going "all out" with Reigns...dawg...lemme break down every accomplishment of Roman Reigns these past few years... - Roman eliminated 4 out of 5 people and was the Sole Survivor in 2013's Surivor Series match - Roman has the most eliminations in a single Rumble out of anyone which he accomplished in 2014 - Roman is the only member of The Shield to beat CM Punk in a single's match (add onto the stuff Punk said too) in 2014 - Roman won the 2015 Royal Rumble by eliminating Big Show and Kane (guys who were dominating everyone) at the same time - Roman beat Daniel Bryan and Bryan had to give him the "handshake and congratulations, you're the better man" thing directly after so they could get some fans on Roman's side (which didn't work), happened in February 2015 - Roman only lost to Lesnar due to Rollins interfering with their WM31 match, he was straight up about to win - Roman beat HHH at WM32 - Roman lost his first single's match clean to Rollins in 2016 due to him having a Wellness Violation, Roman then lost clean to Ambrose at Battleground in the triple threat and then lost clean to Balor, all of this is due to him having that same Wellness Violation - Roman then won the US Title (as a demotion) directly after that in 2016 - Roman was the first person to pin Strowman in a single's match clean at Fastlane 2017 - Roman beat The Undertaker at WM33 - Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match - Roman lost to Strowman at GBoF 2017 due to the Spear into the ambulance but directly after Roman destroyed Strowman and it was setup as Roman being the overall winner like in their previous match - Roman defeated John Cena after taking 4 AAs one which was a Super AA, 2017 - Roman won the IC Title and became a Grand Slam Champion in 2017 - Roman is already a 3x World Champion and he's about to become Universal Champion which will likely add another mark to his resume which will be something no other has done which will happen in 2018 - Roman will beat Lesnar in 2018 at WM and with that said he'll be the only man to successfully conquer Lesnar since he broke The Streak besides Goldberg (who Lesnar destroyed directly after which, in turn, Goldberg was sacrificed to setup Lesnar who will be sacrificed to setup Roman), mind you Lesnar's ran over Ambrose, Cena, Goldberg, Strowman, Joe, Styles, Taker and many many more on his conquest to Roman, everyone has been setup to set this man up for Roman to topple All of these things happened year after year, a steady build. I don't think most people even remember every accomplish he's had because this has been going on for a great while and looking at it laid out like this is insane. You mean to tell me that this isn't going all in? These are things that they only do for "The Guy" and in that sense yeah that boy is a failure. Yes, I do mean to tell you that. WWE has retreated almost every single time because of fan complaints, and the one time they didn't, he shot himself in the foot with a Wellness violation. None of those mean anything when they don't want to risk upsetting the fans and so keep holding him back. So no, his push isn't a failure because they're never able to keep going long enough to actually DO anything. Just because they've done stuff doesn't mean he's getting this horrible megapush. Are you seriously trying to tell everyone that Roman's not a failure at being "The Guy" right now? Given all those who came before him and given all the accomplishments he's gained? Given that others in the company, who are more popular than he is, don't even have a fraction of his accomplishments? If you're trying to tell us this then you've straight up lost it. You can talk about the company retreating and all that all you want but that doesn't mean a thing when they go right back to the drawing board and they keep giving this guy accolades. When a guy only loses due to a wellness violation but then gets a title as soon as he returns that's not retreating. Your comments don't mean a thing when Roman's the whole reason why guys such as Ambrose, Rollins, Strowman, Joe and many other young stars aren't over more simply because they've kept Lesnar strong because of Reigns. You can't compare Reigns to any of the other "guys" ahead of him like Cena, Rock, Austin, HBK, Hogan, like what? How can you straight up say he hasn't failed at becoming The Guy if all the other guys in his spot has eclipsed him nor not been through as much shit as dude? I see no way someone can debate this. You gotta get some facts to back up your points because all I'm seeing is Roman in your signature right now. Damn. Puts it in perspective. He was not nesecarily about to beat Lesnar at Mania 31 as Rollins interfered after Lesnar hit a fourth f5. Both were down Yeah you're right about that, who knows. |
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Post by fw91 on Jan 11, 2018 20:37:37 GMT -5
Alright, I'll be that guy. Shit like this is why this board gets difficult to post in. I think all points on both sides in this Roman debate are well explained and defended, but we can't look to agree to disagree without walking a fine line of being disrespectful. Come on.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Jan 11, 2018 20:40:30 GMT -5
Yes, I do mean to tell you that. WWE has retreated almost every single time because of fan complaints, and the one time they didn't, he shot himself in the foot with a Wellness violation. None of those mean anything when they don't want to risk upsetting the fans and so keep holding him back. So no, his push isn't a failure because they're never able to keep going long enough to actually DO anything. Just because they've done stuff doesn't mean he's getting this horrible megapush. Are you seriously trying to tell everyone that Roman's not a failure at being "The Guy" right now? Given all those who came before him and given all the accomplishments he's gained? Given that others in the company, who are more popular than he is, don't even have a fraction of his accomplishments? If you're trying to tell us this then you've straight up lost it. You can talk about the company retreating and all that all you want but that doesn't mean a thing when they go right back to the drawing board and they keep giving this guy accolades. When a guy only loses due to a wellness violation but then gets a title as soon as he returns that's not retreating. Your comments don't mean a thing when Roman's the whole reason why guys such as Ambrose, Rollins, Strowman, Joe and many other young stars aren't over more simply because they've kept Lesnar strong because of Reigns. You can't compare Reigns to any of the other "guys" ahead of him like Cena, Rock, Austin, HBK, Hogan, like what? How can you straight up say he hasn't failed at becoming The Guy if all the other guys in his spot has eclipsed him nor not been through as much shit as dude? I see no way someone can debate this. You gotta get some facts to back up your points because all I'm seeing is Roman in your signature right now. Again, they've barely pushed him as IT because of fan reaction. They can give him whatever they want, doesn't mean he's THE ONLY PERSON that WWE cares about. Fan reaction, as evidenced both on TV and on this very board, is the biggest fact I can point to. THAT is the reason why WWE hasn't made him IT. So no, he's not a failure because they are too scared to go all-out and see what happens. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 20:49:54 GMT -5
Are you seriously trying to tell everyone that Roman's not a failure at being "The Guy" right now? Given all those who came before him and given all the accomplishments he's gained? Given that others in the company, who are more popular than he is, don't even have a fraction of his accomplishments? If you're trying to tell us this then you've straight up lost it. You can talk about the company retreating and all that all you want but that doesn't mean a thing when they go right back to the drawing board and they keep giving this guy accolades. When a guy only loses due to a wellness violation but then gets a title as soon as he returns that's not retreating. Your comments don't mean a thing when Roman's the whole reason why guys such as Ambrose, Rollins, Strowman, Joe and many other young stars aren't over more simply because they've kept Lesnar strong because of Reigns. You can't compare Reigns to any of the other "guys" ahead of him like Cena, Rock, Austin, HBK, Hogan, like what? How can you straight up say he hasn't failed at becoming The Guy if all the other guys in his spot has eclipsed him nor not been through as much shit as dude? I see no way someone can debate this. You gotta get some facts to back up your points because all I'm seeing is Roman in your signature right now. Fan reaction, as evidenced both on TV and on this very board, is the biggest fact I can point to. THAT is the reason why WWE hasn't made him IT. So no, he's not a failure because they are too scared to go all-out and see what happens. When you're The Guy that doesn't mean you're the only star they care about. That means you're their most important star who their focus is on, who's ahead of everyone else and the one who's the headliner. The guy sells the most merch and is basically the franchise at that point. The guy can cut a great promo, the guy makes fans excited for his matches, the guy is that guy you show off when people ask "ok who's your headliner" in a function promoting the company. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena, it's these dudes. They're The Guy. Reigns ain't competing with these dudes in any of that so he's a failure at being The Guy. It's not really that complicated dawg come on now. The reason they gave Reigns all of those accomplishments is because they wanted him to get over. You saying "they're not all in" when they've given him every accomplishment they can besides retiring Cena (and potentially Taker) is telling. That's what they do for these guys, that's why people win matches. The more wins and more accomplishments you get the bigger your resume is and the greater your legacy. When you do all of that for one man and he's still getting heavily booed there's a problem. Reigns is the worst The Guy they've ever had and is a failure in being that compared to his forefathers. If you deny this and say he's capable with those before him then I gotta see some receipts. We gotta see something because this would not be happening if it were any of those other men. It did not happen with them even Cena who got over and could cut an amazing promo whenever you needed him to. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 11, 2018 20:50:52 GMT -5
Are you seriously trying to tell everyone that Roman's not a failure at being "The Guy" right now? Given all those who came before him and given all the accomplishments he's gained? Given that others in the company, who are more popular than he is, don't even have a fraction of his accomplishments? If you're trying to tell us this then you've straight up lost it. You can talk about the company retreating and all that all you want but that doesn't mean a thing when they go right back to the drawing board and they keep giving this guy accolades. When a guy only loses due to a wellness violation but then gets a title as soon as he returns that's not retreating. Your comments don't mean a thing when Roman's the whole reason why guys such as Ambrose, Rollins, Strowman, Joe and many other young stars aren't over more simply because they've kept Lesnar strong because of Reigns. You can't compare Reigns to any of the other "guys" ahead of him like Cena, Rock, Austin, HBK, Hogan, like what? How can you straight up say he hasn't failed at becoming The Guy if all the other guys in his spot has eclipsed him nor not been through as much shit as dude? I see no way someone can debate this. You gotta get some facts to back up your points because all I'm seeing is Roman in your signature right now. Again, they've barely pushed him as IT because of fan reaction. They can give him whatever they want, doesn't mean he's THE ONLY PERSON that WWE cares about. Fan reaction, as evidenced both on TV and on this very board, is the biggest fact I can point to. THAT is the reason why WWE hasn't made him IT. So no, he's not a failure because they are too scared to go all-out and see what happens. Honestly, you’re both right to an extent. Here’s why: Yes, they’ve given him a lot of accomplishments but some of those you mentioned, kn, have astrixes next to them. Like when you mentioned Roman eliminating Kane and Big Show. The reason he was able to eliminate them? Because they argued pointlessly. So Roman eliminated two big men who killed everyone else, sure, but only because of an utter fluke. It would have really benefited him to get rid of those two by himself and even after he did it, he needed his more famous blood relative to save him from a beat down. On the other hand, it has never really seemed like WWE does things judging from fan reactions on that as much as you think. Sure, it might have influenced them but regardless of what happens to the guy, he’s always back to relevancy. He wins a title, he beats a threat, he wins a big match or gets a big win. He’s never had a cooldown period to let fans adjust to him. He’s there and even when he wasn’t near a belt, his stuff would he high on the card because that’s how they see him. I will agree that they never went full out regardless of those accomplishments but I put that down to booking incompetence rather than listening to fan reactions. Look at how easily told stories are put through the most overtly complex, over thought ringer every week. WWE hasn’t done a simple rivalry and not tried to act like they’re Game of Thrones for YEARS now. |
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Jan 11, 2018 21:13:18 GMT -5
Again, they've barely pushed him as IT because of fan reaction. They can give him whatever they want, doesn't mean he's THE ONLY PERSON that WWE cares about. Fan reaction, as evidenced both on TV and on this very board, is the biggest fact I can point to. THAT is the reason why WWE hasn't made him IT. So no, he's not a failure because they are too scared to go all-out and see what happens. Honestly, you’re both right to an extent. Here’s why: Yes, they’ve given him a lot of accomplishments but some of those you mentioned, kn, have astrixes next to them. Like when you mentioned Roman eliminating Kane and Big Show. The reason he was able to eliminate them? Because they argued pointlessly. So Roman eliminated two big men who killed everyone else, sure, but only because of an utter fluke. It would have really benefited him to get rid of those two by himself and even after he did it, he needed his more famous blood relative to save him from a beat down. On the other hand, it has never really seemed like WWE does things judging from fan reactions on that as much as you think. Sure, it might have influenced them but regardless of what happens to the guy, he’s always back to relevancy. He wins a title, he beats a threat, he wins a big match or gets a big win. He’s never had a cooldown period to let fans adjust to him. He’s there and even when he wasn’t near a belt, his stuff would he high on the card because that’s how they see him. I will agree that they never went full out regardless of those accomplishments but I put that down to booking incompetence rather than listening to fan reactions. Look at how easily told stories are put through the most overtly complex, over thought ringer every week. WWE hasn’t done a simple rivalry and not tried to act like they’re Game of Thrones for YEARS now. The point I was trying to make, though, was how can he be called a failure when we really haven't seen anything to prove it? Comparing him to Hogan or Cena in terms of matches or promo work doesn't count, and neither do his accomplishments, whatever annotations or asterisks anyone wants to put next to him. Compared to a lot of other top guys he hasn't exactly had the sort of push where he's indisputably IT, as in a world championship run. In fact, someone had posted on the board a while ago how his attendance numbers stacked up to other people WWE had on top, and he was actually more in the middle because he really only had one run over a month. There needs to be solid evidence that he is any sort of failure, not just opinion. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 22:27:31 GMT -5
Again, they've barely pushed him as IT because of fan reaction. They can give him whatever they want, doesn't mean he's THE ONLY PERSON that WWE cares about. Fan reaction, as evidenced both on TV and on this very board, is the biggest fact I can point to. THAT is the reason why WWE hasn't made him IT. So no, he's not a failure because they are too scared to go all-out and see what happens. Honestly, you’re both right to an extent. Here’s why: Yes, they’ve given him a lot of accomplishments but some of those you mentioned, kn, have astrixes next to them. Like when you mentioned Roman eliminating Kane and Big Show. The reason he was able to eliminate them? Because they argued pointlessly. So Roman eliminated two big men who killed everyone else, sure, but only because of an utter fluke. It would have really benefited him to get rid of those two by himself and even after he did it, he needed his more famous blood relative to save him from a beat down. On the other hand, it has never really seemed like WWE does things judging from fan reactions on that as much as you think. Sure, it might have influenced them but regardless of what happens to the guy, he’s always back to relevancy. He wins a title, he beats a threat, he wins a big match or gets a big win. He’s never had a cooldown period to let fans adjust to him. He’s there and even when he wasn’t near a belt, his stuff would he high on the card because that’s how they see him. I will agree that they never went full out regardless of those accomplishments but I put that down to booking incompetence rather than listening to fan reactions. Look at how easily told stories are put through the most overtly complex, over thought ringer every week. WWE hasn’t done a simple rivalry and not tried to act like they’re Game of Thrones for YEARS now. The best answer you can get out of this from both sides |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2018 22:29:50 GMT -5
I can disagree.
Everyone insists that his push has failed because why? Because WWE has screwed up his booking, because he's simply not someone who some people like and won't give him a chance even if WWE manages to fix his booking, or because WWE has been reluctant to go full-out with pushing him because they're afraid of the possible backlash? And if there's parts of the audience that DO cheer for him, and if they've been able to get normally hostile crowds on his side, is calling it a failure really truthful? Hard to call it a failure when WWE, quite frankly, has been too afraid of their fans to try. - Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match To be a clown because I know you not going to get all antsy me nitpicking one thing, didn't Strowman in kayfabe cause that injury to Roman? |
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 11, 2018 22:31:46 GMT -5
As inevitable as its been for a year as the Reigns coronation draws closer it just pisses me off more. The only person ive seen booked as strong as Roman wqs Austin 99-00. Reigns has done it longer and while Austin might have been the most over guy ever Reigns reeks of easily replacable midcarder.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 22:33:43 GMT -5
- Strowman only beat Roman at Payback 2017 because Reigns was kayfabe injured and then directly after the match Roman fended Strowman away and that's all the announcers talked about until their next match, didn't even mention that Strowman actually won the match To be a clown because I know you not going to get all antsy me nitpicking one thing, didn't Strowman in kayfabe cause that injury to Roman? I'm not positive but I think it happened when Strowman attacked Reigns during that ambulance flip thing? I think that's where he got injured but I'm not sure. I remember Reigns getting flipped and then next thing you know dude's walking out bandaged up at Payback lol. |
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