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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 15, 2018 4:55:05 GMT -5
I honestly think this is the worst rumble of all time. Not for Reigns winning or Bryan getting eliminated. Its just a bad match. Its clunky, disjointed and overall really boring. Honestly, I hate this Rumble with the passion of a thousand suns for neither of the reasons you mentioned but I consider 1999 worse only because it felt like a gigantic mess. Like, there were three seperate occasions in the match when the ring was empty and one person stood around waiting for the next person to come out. For me in a Rumble match, that’s unforgivable. One of them involved Kane eliminating himself running away from mental asylum workers. Agreed. And I really don't think this match is the write-off everyone says it is. Loads of guys got pops and support apart from Bryan. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 15, 2018 5:09:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I hate this Rumble with the passion of a thousand suns for neither of the reasons you mentioned but I consider 1999 worse only because it felt like a gigantic mess. Like, there were three seperate occasions in the match when the ring was empty and one person stood around waiting for the next person to come out. For me in a Rumble match, that’s unforgivable. One of them involved Kane eliminating himself running away from mental asylum workers. Agreed. And I really don't think this match is the write-off everyone says it is. Loads of guys got pops and support apart from Bryan. That’s another annoying thing about the overall booking of it. It wasn’t like people didn’t want to cheer someone after Bryan got eliminated. Hell, Sandow just teasing going in the ring got the pop of his career. And then he got promptly eliminated so you can’t blame the crowd for just going back to booing. That seemed to be the story of the match. It would be like if a super over tag team faced a heel tag team and the moment you got to the hot tag pop, the heel team just hit their finish and won. Now imagine that at least 5 times during one match. |
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Jan 15, 2018 5:16:25 GMT -5
How can we get Reigns cheered?
Okay we'll have the much hated Big Show and Kane eliminate all the crowd favourites so people will cheer on Reigns. We'll also have the evil nasty Russian heel eliminate the most beloved wrestler and then hide under the ring and try to sneak a win. That'll work! If not we'll have The Rock endorse Reigns! We've just created the new baby face star!
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 15, 2018 11:50:53 GMT -5
Agreed. And I really don't think this match is the write-off everyone says it is. Loads of guys got pops and support apart from Bryan. That’s another annoying thing about the overall booking of it. It wasn’t like people didn’t want to cheer someone after Bryan got eliminated. Hell, Sandow just teasing going in the ring got the pop of his career. And then he got promptly eliminated so you can’t blame the crowd for just going back to booing. That seemed to be the story of the match. It would be like if a super over tag team faced a heel tag team and the moment you got to the hot tag pop, the heel team just hit their finish and won. Now imagine that at least 5 times during one match. Yeah, one of my friends was calling the crowd assholes for only wanting Bryan and not giving anyone else a chance.... hell I think the WWE themselves have tried pulling that card once. and it's just bullshit. Dean got massive cheers, Ziggler got cheered, Ryback got cheered, Sandow got cheered... all of them came out post Bryan... and they all were unceremoniously dumped out of the ring. |
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 15, 2018 12:09:53 GMT -5
How can we get Reigns cheered? Okay we'll have the much hated Big Show and Kane eliminate all the crowd favourites so people will cheer on Reigns. We'll also have the evil nasty Russian heel eliminate the most beloved wrestler and then hide under the ring and try to sneak a win. That'll work! If not we'll have The Rock endorse Reigns! We've just created the new baby face star! They still to this day don't understand why people were cheering for Roman in the 2014 Rumble. It was literally down to four guys (Punk, Sheamus, Reigns, and Batista), and since they went with the infamous "Rey at #30" spot instead of the white-hot Bryan, they were going to latch onto anyone who wasn't rumored to be hand-picked to win the whole thing (basically, Batista of 2014 is what Roman has become for the last four years). |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 15, 2018 13:25:47 GMT -5
How can we get Reigns cheered? Okay we'll have the much hated Big Show and Kane eliminate all the crowd favourites so people will cheer on Reigns. We'll also have the evil nasty Russian heel eliminate the most beloved wrestler and then hide under the ring and try to sneak a win. That'll work! If not we'll have The Rock endorse Reigns! We've just created the new baby face star! They still to this day don't understand why people were cheering for Roman in the 2014 Rumble. It was literally down to four guys (Punk, Sheamus, Reigns, and Batista), and since they went with the infamous "Rey at #30" spot instead of the white-hot Bryan, they were going to latch onto anyone who wasn't rumored to be hand-picked to win the whole thing (basically, Batista of 2014 is what Roman has become for the last four years). Because Reigns was the last person left in the match not Batista. Nothing more, nothing less, really. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 15, 2018 14:44:04 GMT -5
I just re-watched it for the first time, too; my God, this match is a booking and layout disaster in almost every aspect imaginable.
You've all gone over the greatest hits of what made it so awful, but a couple of other points or points I think do need to be emphasized:
-Count me among those who completely forgot for awhile that Reigns was even in the match. I had forgotten about how invisible he became for a long stretch, likely because he didn't have the endurance to go from #18 to the end without a break.
-Rusev running in at the end because he never went over the top was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. There was no point, no rhyme or reason to that, except to possibly say that Rusev was the one guy from "the rest" that Kane and Big Show didn't dump out?
-Maaaaaaan, after watching this and the last little bit of the 2014 Rumble, they really, really wanted to drive home to fans to stop cheering Ziggler, huh? Guy was getting some really good reactions in both matches, but got tossed pretty casually both times.
-The crowd absolutely did have other people they were willing to cheer on to win. Had, say, someone like Ambrose, Ziggler, or even Cesaro, Ryback, or Barrett made the final two, I think the crowd would've gotten behind them to some degree or another.
This leads to my big point, though:
-WWE has conditioned its audience so thoroughly with its tropes and writing style that the audience could see through every damn thing that was happening the instant it all went down.
Here's the dirty secret behind the problem of this Rumble: fans would've been glad to cheer someone else besides Bryan, but they already knew full well that there was no prayer whatsoever that any of those guys would win. The writing was on the wall from the moment Roman entered, and fans were sitting there with the full knowledge that Lesnar would be champ at Mania and that WWE would in no way book him to face Ambrose, Ziggler, etc. There was no drama to speak of, because there's no mystery to how WWE writes its shows. Sure, they'll throw a swerve in here and there to "work the smarks" (see: Orton winnin the Rumble this year), but that's not a mystery, that's not a surprise, that's just a game of "GOTCHA!" with the fans.
Another part of this: The fans know that if you're not booked in the main event, then it typically means creative isn't really thinking about anything to do with you, and that was another reason they couldn't get hyped for anyone else. That shows in the way that this Rumble built up absolutely nothing going forward: no feuds, no Mania matches (besides the main event), just nothing. Shouldn't eliminating Bryan have been a source of mega heat for Wyatt, maybe leading to a "once and for all" blowoff grudge match at Mania? Nope, Bryan got booked in a horrifically built-up ladder match for the IC belt and Wyatt got fed to 'Taker. Just nothing.
And yeah, if they really wanted to get Roman over, then just man up and put Roman the hell over. Let him stand tall, let him look strong, let him look unstoppable; this match made him look like a lucky goober who just so happened to be fortunate enough to see Big Show and Kane start fighting at the end. Stop being apologetic for it, just go for it, the fans will see right through whatever it is you're doing because they know you have no plans for any of the other guys (e.g. Rusev at the end of the match) you're using as teases. More than that, have a storyline reason why it's happening, so fans can focus their like or dislike on the storyline and less on the talent involved. You can adjust from there, but all this starting and stopping and "Roman only got lucky here, so it's ok, guys!" or "But Rollins cashed in, you like that, right?" moments won't do anything to fix the underlying rot.
Ultimately, that's the problem with so much WWE booking, not just the Rumble: things don't happen for any particular reason. A does not lead to B. Matches for huge cards like Mania aren't made with a payoff in mind that will actually carry over into the "new year" of booking after the show. There is no story structure in mind when they arrange for given matches, or confrontations, or even just spots in big moments, it's all just tossing action figures together and hoping they'll "create moments" instead of telling a damn story. Some people want to talk about spotfest wrestling, this company specializes in spotfest booking, where it's all "LOOK AT THIS SHINY THING!" before moving on to the next would be "moment" as if the shiny thing wasn't important in the first place. Nothing has logic, nothing has a tangible payoff, nothing has a reason, it just is.
...That got really existential there at the end, sorry. I know I'm exaggerating for effect, here, but I don't think the company can dig its way out of the creative rut it's in until they learn from this. Just doing something like pushing somebody new won't fix the foundational issues they have with failing to put together consistently compelling stories and payoffs.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 15, 2018 17:39:40 GMT -5
I was there and I will never, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever stop reiterating that:
a) Reigns was being booed before the show even started. He'd show up on the screen for any reason and: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
b) People other than Bryan were cheered. Plenty of them, and loudly. This was NOT a Bryan thing; it was a Reigns/horrible match thing.
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Jan 15, 2018 18:10:11 GMT -5
And yeah, if they really wanted to get Roman over, then just man up and put Roman the hell over. Let him stand tall, let him look strong, let him look unstoppable; this match made him look like a lucky goober who just so happened to be fortunate enough to see Big Show and Kane start fighting at the end. Stop being apologetic for it, just go for it, the fans will see right through whatever it is you're doing because they know you have no plans for any of the other guys (e.g. Rusev at the end of the match) you're using as teases. That’s what probably bugs me the most out of any of the Reigns stuff. The whole blue balls thing they have with Reigns where they worry about the crowds enough to not push him so hard, but not worry about the crowds enough to push someone else. Like, we’re flexible. We’ll work with you if you’re willing to work with us and write the dude better. Remember, by the end of the year in the same arena, he was over like a motherf***er as a babyface in winning the world title, and that’s because they were writing the guy better. The relationship between the promotion and its fans should be way more co-operative, not combative. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jan 15, 2018 18:10:34 GMT -5
I was there and I will never, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever stop reiterating that: a) Reigns was being booed before the show even started. He'd show up on the screen for any reason and: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO b) People other than Bryan were cheered, Plenty of them, and loudly. This was NOT a Bryan thing; it was a Reigns/horrible match thing. Just curious, what was the crowd reaction like for Cesaro/Kidd/Rose? |
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Post by King Boo on Jan 15, 2018 18:17:34 GMT -5
I was there and I will never, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever stop reiterating that: a) Reigns was being booed before the show even started. He'd show up on the screen for any reason and: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO b) People other than Bryan were cheered, Plenty of them, and loudly. This was NOT a Bryan thing; it was a Reigns/horrible match thing. Just curious, what was the crowd reaction like for Cesaro/Kidd/Rose? Those three I can't specifically recall. But I guess that means not poor, since that'd probably be memorable. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 15, 2018 18:21:02 GMT -5
And yeah, if they really wanted to get Roman over, then just man up and put Roman the hell over. Let him stand tall, let him look strong, let him look unstoppable; this match made him look like a lucky goober who just so happened to be fortunate enough to see Big Show and Kane start fighting at the end. Stop being apologetic for it, just go for it, the fans will see right through whatever it is you're doing because they know you have no plans for any of the other guys (e.g. Rusev at the end of the match) you're using as teases. That’s what probably bugs me the most out of any of the Reigns stuff. The whole blue balls thing they have with Reigns where they worry about the crowds enough to not push him so hard, but not worry about the crowds enough to push someone else. Like, we’re flexible. We’ll work with you if you’re willing to work with us and write the dude better. Remember, by the end of the year in the same arena, he was over like a motherf***er as a babyface in winning the world title, and that’s because they were writing the guy better. The relationship between the promotion and its fans should be way more co-operative, not combative. but only losers watch wrestling  |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Jan 15, 2018 18:23:15 GMT -5
Just curious, what was the crowd reaction like for Cesaro/Kidd/Rose? Those three I can't specifically recall. But I guess that means not poor, since that'd probably be memorable. If I remember correctly, it was pretty decent given they were going up against the original face version of The New Day, which was dying on the vine. They were starting to get heel heat in their own right. |
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Post by King Boo on Jan 15, 2018 18:24:52 GMT -5
Those three I can't specifically recall. But I guess that means not poor, since that'd probably be memorable. If I remember correctly, it was pretty decent given they were going up against the original face version of The New Day, which was dying on the vine. They were starting to get heel heat in their own right. And THAT would be why I didn't remember - all I remember from that match is "NEW. DAY SUCKS. NEW. DAY SUCKS." |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jan 16, 2018 6:07:38 GMT -5
Those three I can't specifically recall. But I guess that means not poor, since that'd probably be memorable. If I remember correctly, it was pretty decent given they were going up against the original face version of The New Day, which was dying on the vine. They were starting to get heel heat in their own right. Yeah, Philly loved the "Brass Ring Club", and this is a landmark moment for New Day, as this was the night the crowd started chanting NEW! DAY SUCKS! while Xavier was pounding the mat. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 11:23:28 GMT -5
I'm glad it happened. I was "watching the Rumble" thru the official thread here, and when people lost their minds at that elimination I think I just logged off and went to bed. Didn't watch RAW the next night - something I'd be trying to do for years at that point - and I've watched almost zero WWE TV (except for YT clips every few weeks) since.
It broke my connection to watching wrestling; finally. I still post here (oh, I just like you guys darn it) but I'm not invested in the product beyond this. If anything, my enjoyment from wrestling comes when I learn of them doing something colossally stupid that pisses the fans off.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jan 16, 2018 11:59:35 GMT -5
Oooh I forgot unlike many other wrestling forums, this forum archives everything, I should go check how the Rumble thread went that night! PS Started at the Rumble beginning. So Bubba appears at #3 and there are 3 pages of people going "OMG! WOW!" followed by one person going "Oh not, not the Dudleys". That amuses me far more than it should.  |
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 16, 2018 12:30:26 GMT -5
I think even where I completely lost interest was the segment where Big Show and Kane were just tossing everyone. The way it went down was so utterly lazy and halfhearted as to be a work of art. That's an underrated aspect of the badness here. Not only was Reigns a nonexistent hero, as noted, but Big Show and Kane were totally phoning in being monster heels. It didn't help that both guys were so utterly stale and beyond salvaging as characters that putting them in that spot was insane to begin with.
I just don't get why they didn't just hold off a Bryan return until after the Rumble. Sure, him being in it may have made them a few extra bucks but it also set the expectation that he simply had to win. Given that Rollins cashed in anyway he could have done that on Bryan and then you keep Reigns strong in the IC or US match at WM.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 16, 2018 14:56:19 GMT -5
I think even where I completely lost interest was the segment where Big Show and Kane were just tossing everyone. The way it went down was so utterly lazy and halfhearted as to be a work of art. That's an underrated aspect of the badness here. Not only was Reigns a nonexistent hero, as noted, but Big Show and Kane were totally phoning in being monster heels. It didn't help that both guys were so utterly stale and beyond salvaging as characters that putting them in that spot was insane to begin with. I just don't get why they didn't just hold off a Bryan return until after the Rumble. Sure, him being in it may have made them a few extra bucks but it also set the expectation that he simply had to win. Given that Rollins cashed in anyway he could have done that on Bryan and then you keep Reigns strong in the IC or US match at WM. from everything I have heard Rollins cashing in was a pretty late decision, to salvage the end of Wrestlemania. |
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