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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 19, 2018 14:25:10 GMT -5
I still don't understand how "Channel Awesome" works. I know that it was (still is?) a web domain for people to upload content on where it's all grouped together, presumably with the idea that if someone will watch one Angry Nintendo Nerd knockoff they'll want to watch another, and I get that. What I don't get is how Doug Walker expected that to be an actual business. Like was he hoping to just rake in ad avenue and not paying the people making the videos for him because hey, he's the one getting them exposure? I think tat's it. Various former producers have mentioned that its a website model that made sense 8-10 years ago when posting on YouTube was becoming difficult and social media marketing hadn't become as efficient as it as. They're exposed via TGWTG.com, get their money from a site like Blip, and gradually the former could evolve to best promote the video creators. The problem of course is that they site didn't evolve, never developed a strong social media presence, and with YouTube alternatives collapsing alongside the development of subscription/reward programs, the site become outdated very quickly. A would be content creator now is far better suited using YouTube for content, Twitter for exposure, and Patreon for actual money. Channel Awesome is a 2009 concept wildly out of step with where the internet is now. |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 14:27:46 GMT -5
If Doug really wasn't paying them, then there's no excuse for that. But on the other side of the coin a lot of those people worked for Doug/CA for years and kept coming back to do project after project with him, so... yeah... they must not have had a problem with it for at least some time and nobody held a gun to their heads and forced them to do that.
I wouldn't trust Doug Walker to manage so much as my ant farm because he's pretty obviously shown himself to be terrible at dealing with people on both a professional and (maybe more importantly) a personal level, but you also have to consider the agendas of at least some of the players involved here making these accusations. Some of them have been known to... shall we say... exaggerate the truth to promote their agendas in the past.
So I don't think anybody has clean hands here including some of the former CA content creators who have been railing against Doug for years despite working for/under him for several years prior without making so much as a peep.
And I say all of this noting that I enjoy much of the content made by Doug, and a lot of the former CA people too. I think they're all talented in various areas and make funny, interesting, and often thought-provoking videos.
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Post by nickcave on Mar 19, 2018 14:42:59 GMT -5
Drama aside, their entire model for a site is incredibly outdated at this point. I think most people go to YouTube even for Nostalgia Critic. I'm not sure why people like Linkara who is one of the people that's been vocal in this recent blowup stay with them at this point. He doesn't need them anymore and has enough of a fanbase to be fine on his own.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 14:44:07 GMT -5
Drama aside, their entire model for a site is incredibly outdated at this point. I think most people go to YouTube even for Nostalgia Critic. I'm not sure why people like Linkara who is one of the people that's been vocal in this recent blowup stay with them at this point. He doesn't need them anymore and has enough of a fanbase to be fine on his own. Yeah, Linkara can (and probably should have) left years ago. Doug needs him way more than he needs them at this point. Maybe Linkara stays out of a sense of loyalty? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 15:05:45 GMT -5
Yeah I thought it was common knowledge from a couple of years ago that the walkers were not good people to work for to put it mildly so this news comes as zero surprise to me
I think it took me to Boldly Flee to realise how bad writers/directors they were. I enjoyed the first couple at the time, doubt I would now if I went back to watch them
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 15:08:46 GMT -5
Yeah I thought it was common knowledge from a couple of years ago that the walkers were not good people to work for to put it mildly so this news comes as zero surprise to me I think it took me to Boldly Flee to realise how bad writers/directors they were. I enjoyed the first couple at the time, doubt I would now if I went back to watch them Doug is at his best (and really only watchable, IMO) when he's doing straightforward reviews (like the first few years of Nostalgia Critic). It's when he tries to make his own skits and movies that I completely lose interest because he just doesn't know how to do satire or parody with any kind of subtlety or creativity. It's why I always avoid the "lipless" N.C episodes that are really just Demo Reel 2.0. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 19, 2018 15:15:06 GMT -5
Drama aside, their entire model for a site is incredibly outdated at this point. I think most people go to YouTube even for Nostalgia Critic. I'm not sure why people like Linkara who is one of the people that's been vocal in this recent blowup stay with them at this point. He doesn't need them anymore and has enough of a fanbase to be fine on his own. Yeah, Linkara can (and probably should have) left years ago. Doug needs him way more than he needs them at this point. Maybe Linkara stays out of a sense of loyalty? According to Linkara, he just doesn't care. They want to keep him around, he'll get a few extra views that way but he won't play by their rules so they're free to get rid of him. It's pretty telling that basically everyone on the site leaves as soon as they can support themselves. |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 15:24:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Linkara can (and probably should have) left years ago. Doug needs him way more than he needs them at this point. Maybe Linkara stays out of a sense of loyalty? According to Linkara, he just doesn't care. They want to keep him around, he'll get a few extra views that way but he won't play by their rules so they're free to get rid of him. It's pretty telling that basically everyone on the site leaves as soon as they can support themselves. I don't think it's that telling of very much (in and of itself). 6 or 7 years ago the site was a way to draw people to your brand of videos. These days it really isn't and you can do it yourself with social media and word-of-mouth. I don't think anyone really needs to join CA to make a name for themselves like they (maybe) used to years ago. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 19, 2018 16:09:19 GMT -5
Really, most of these allegations have been known about since the Lupa firing., people are just pouring fuel on the dumpster fire that is that site.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 16:24:17 GMT -5
Really, most of these allegations have been known about since the Lupa firing., people are just pouring fuel on the dumpster fire that is that site. She's done just fine for herself in the years since she was released from/left CA (in fact her videos are much better now than they were when she was with CA) so I don't really even know why she still feels the need to talk about Doug/CA several years later. Oh wait, yes I do. Lindsay's moved on to other career opportunities (by and large) and still makes her own videos on her own YouTube Channel yet she still won't stop talking about Doug/CA either. I mean, you'd think they would have moved on by now and just let CA die off like it probably is destined to do within the next few years, but no, they keep giving Doug and the site plenty of their attention and time. These are bitter, angry people who just can't seem to move on with their lives despite finding continued (and well-deserved) success after their time with CA ended. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 19, 2018 16:44:29 GMT -5
Really, most of these allegations have been known about since the Lupa firing., people are just pouring fuel on the dumpster fire that is that site. She's done just fine for herself in the years since she was released from/left CA (in fact her videos are much better now than they were when she was with CA) so I don't really even know why she still feels the need to talk about Doug/CA several years later. Oh wait, yes I do. Lindsay's moved on to other career opportunities (by and large) and still makes her own videos on her own YouTube Channel yet she still won't stop talking about Doug/CA either. I mean, you'd think they would have moved on by now and just let CA die off like it probably is destined to do within the next few years, but no, they keep giving Doug and the site plenty of their attention and time. These are bitter, angry people who just can't seem to move on with their lives despite finding continued (and well-deserved) success after their time with CA ended. They got prompted into it, it's not exactly like either of them do one of these blow ups 3 times a week, it's just whenever someone responds to a tweet with something that remind them of tea yet to be poured. Like, it was 3 years before Lindsay revealed the miserable time she had with To Boldly Flee |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 16:53:47 GMT -5
She's done just fine for herself in the years since she was released from/left CA (in fact her videos are much better now than they were when she was with CA) so I don't really even know why she still feels the need to talk about Doug/CA several years later. Oh wait, yes I do. Lindsay's moved on to other career opportunities (by and large) and still makes her own videos on her own YouTube Channel yet she still won't stop talking about Doug/CA either. I mean, you'd think they would have moved on by now and just let CA die off like it probably is destined to do within the next few years, but no, they keep giving Doug and the site plenty of their attention and time. These are bitter, angry people who just can't seem to move on with their lives despite finding continued (and well-deserved) success after their time with CA ended. They got prompted into it, it's not exactly like either of them do one of these blow ups 3 times a week, it's just whenever someone responds to a tweet with something that remind them of tea yet to be poured. Like, it was 3 years before Lindsay revealed the miserable time she had with To Boldly Flee So you're saying they just have no self-control whatsoever and have to respond whenever anyone tweets them about Doug/CA? Some of them must have some really gigantic chips on their shoulders, then. |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 19, 2018 17:01:48 GMT -5
Honestly there's been rumors and words about this stuff coming out for years. Lupa's made detailed complaints about the management, Nostalgia Chick's gone on record about some of the issues she had with the writing of the anniversary specials, and countless people have brought up the numerous problems specifically with To Boldly Flee. Lordkat of Until We Win's been absolutely brutal towards basically everyone at Channel Awesome on his podcasts but given his own skeletons and bitterness towards them means you have to take it with a grain of salt. The most significant development now has been Marzgurl speaking up and Linkara being far more open in pointing out the flaws of the site/management. Glad that Tom White left them years ago. Their "cut-away/guest gag" style didn't work for him, and he's been better off without them. Also : The "Content Creator" bubble is starting to crash, no? I think simple content of "Show footage of show/movie/comic/game, cut back to creator whom makes jokes/snark about said media" is dying a slow death as a viable career path. People like Angry Joe, Linkara, AVGN, or Cinema Snob that have consistent uploads and/or dedicated fanbases can be sustained, but they're more exception than rule. That entire genre's moved towards video analysis and visual essays, and even those are still pretty much kept alive via stuff like Patreon; the days of guaranteed money via Blip oor fat contracts more easily acquired from YouTube are long over. I will say I definitively prefer the Kyle Kallgren/Anthony Fantano style of legitimate in depth analysis. Brad Jones and Todd in the Shadows are pretty much the only snarky reviewers I have time for anymore, and even they approach things from a more intellectual bent. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,592
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 19, 2018 17:07:34 GMT -5
They got prompted into it, it's not exactly like either of them do one of these blow ups 3 times a week, it's just whenever someone responds to a tweet with something that remind them of tea yet to be poured. Like, it was 3 years before Lindsay revealed the miserable time she had with To Boldly Flee So you're saying they just have no self-control whatsoever and have to respond whenever anyone tweets them about Doug/CA? Some of them must have some really gigantic chips on their shoulders, then. Well, bad stuff happened, and was never apologised for, can imagine that'd be annoying. As for my previous point and that not being indicative, I'd still say it is. If these people were all finding success and things were fine, why wouldn't they continue working together for more success? As they've branched out they could still cameo or at least talk to CA. It's not like they've all gone off and left their past behind, a lot of the creators do still collaborate and tweet each other, quite a lot still seem to be friends. When there's about 17 employees all talking about 3 members of management, and they're basically all the employees you'd want to keep because they're successful and have a following and could make money if things could be cordial... I'll tend to side against the management everyone wants to get away from. |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 17:15:26 GMT -5
So you're saying they just have no self-control whatsoever and have to respond whenever anyone tweets them about Doug/CA? Some of them must have some really gigantic chips on their shoulders, then. Well, bad stuff happened, and was never apologised for, can imagine that'd be annoying. As for my previous point and that not being indicative, I'd still say it is. If these people were all finding success and things were fine, why wouldn't they continue working together for more success? As they've branched out they could still cameo or at least talk to CA. It's not like they've all gone off and left their past behind, a lot of the creators do still collaborate and tweet each other, quite a lot still seem to be friends. When there's about 17 employees all talking about 3 members of management, and they're basically all the employees you'd want to keep because they're successful and have a following and could make money if things could be cordial... I'll tend to side against the management everyone wants to get away from. The Walkers have no idea how to manage either a business, or people on an individual level- that much is obvious. But that doesn't mean that some of the ex-CA personalities don't have agendas or that they're not willing to play the victim(s) when it suits their need for publicity. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 17:22:42 GMT -5
Really, most of these allegations have been known about since the Lupa firing., people are just pouring fuel on the dumpster fire that is that site. She's done just fine for herself in the years since she was released from/left CA (in fact her videos are much better now than they were when she was with CA) so I don't really even know why she still feels the need to talk about Doug/CA several years later. Oh wait, yes I do. Lindsay's moved on to other career opportunities (by and large) and still makes her own videos on her own YouTube Channel yet she still won't stop talking about Doug/CA either. I mean, you'd think they would have moved on by now and just let CA die off like it probably is destined to do within the next few years, but no, they keep giving Doug and the site plenty of their attention and time. These are bitter, angry people who just can't seem to move on with their lives despite finding continued (and well-deserved) success after their time with CA ended.  Lindsay is doing well for herself (dont forget about that Rape Rap video) and Linkara should be happy that the stuff between him and Iron Liz happen a couple year ago instead today. |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 17:27:45 GMT -5
She's done just fine for herself in the years since she was released from/left CA (in fact her videos are much better now than they were when she was with CA) so I don't really even know why she still feels the need to talk about Doug/CA several years later. Oh wait, yes I do. Lindsay's moved on to other career opportunities (by and large) and still makes her own videos on her own YouTube Channel yet she still won't stop talking about Doug/CA either. I mean, you'd think they would have moved on by now and just let CA die off like it probably is destined to do within the next few years, but no, they keep giving Doug and the site plenty of their attention and time. These are bitter, angry people who just can't seem to move on with their lives despite finding continued (and well-deserved) success after their time with CA ended. Lindsay is doing well for herself (dont forget about that Rape Rap video) and Linkara should be happy that the stuff between him and Iron Liz happen a couple year ago instead today. Okay, I meant career-wise she's doing well for herself. I forgot about the run-in(s) with the law when I wrote that... |
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 19, 2018 17:33:41 GMT -5
They got prompted into it, it's not exactly like either of them do one of these blow ups 3 times a week, it's just whenever someone responds to a tweet with something that remind them of tea yet to be poured. Like, it was 3 years before Lindsay revealed the miserable time she had with To Boldly Flee So you're saying they just have no self-control whatsoever and have to respond whenever anyone tweets them about Doug/CA? Some of them must have some really gigantic chips on their shoulders, then. Nobody said that, and I'd ask that you please not use strawman tactics in such discussions. |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 19, 2018 17:36:51 GMT -5
So you're saying they just have no self-control whatsoever and have to respond whenever anyone tweets them about Doug/CA? Some of them must have some really gigantic chips on their shoulders, then. Nobody said that, and I'd ask that you please not use strawman tactics in such discussions. Okay, she didn't say it but I will say it. If they can't control themselves but to respond every time someone tweets them about CA then they lack basic self-control at best and are trying to paint themselves as victims years later at worst. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 19, 2018 17:41:23 GMT -5
Nobody said that, and I'd ask that you please not use strawman tactics in such discussions. Okay, she didn't say it but I will say it. If they can't control themselves but to respond every time someone tweets them about CA then they lack basic self-control at best and are trying to paint themselves as victims years later at worst. By all accounts, they hadn’t discussed it for years unless I really missed a collection of conversations after the last set 3 years ago so why suddenly discussing it now a bad thing? Especially when, as mentioned, nobody’s really addressed it even though they really should at this point. Heck, I’d much rather they talked about it more to get something out there in the same way more people should be speaking out who used to work at WhatCulture for their “Get rid of people when they’re too popular and want to be paid as such” policy that’s ditched, like, half the people they have. |
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