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Post by ben:friendship frog on Apr 2, 2018 2:37:21 GMT -5
I wasn't at the show last night but apparently a bunch of people walked out for their match. Good stuff. twitter.com/blake2108/status/980520634466885632?s=19(Please do not embed tweets with unfiltered language - Tyger)
Also, to reply to a few people in this thread. Yes, they knew what the flag was, in a pre match promo Jay was staring at it whilst talking about the crowd being "second class citizens". It wasn't an ECW type brawl, he went into the crowd to specifically grab the flag. No, its not the same as a country's flag. If they used a Union Flag I wouldn't give a shit, but then, I haven't been attacked in the past for being British, and again it's not about heel heat, it's about the very real homophobic views of at least one of the brothers. And as for the person who said I'm too sensitive, this tweet sums it up really : |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 3:59:13 GMT -5
This is all an overreaction to a cheap heat tactic. The Briscos whole gimmick is basically that they're dumb rednecks. The stereotype of a dumb redneck typically aligns to homophobia. Sure, they may also be homophobic in real life. But that's irrelevant to their characters.
This would be no different than if New Jack was wrestling in the south and used a confederate flag as a weapon, or an American humping a Canadian flag. Yes, there's different contexts and different histories behind certain flags. But you're getting mad at a character that's supposed to be bad, for doing bad things.
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Post by JTG on Apr 2, 2018 4:22:37 GMT -5
I still think that you're way too sensitive, man. Just cool down. It's behavior like yours that feeds homophobia, because YOU take away yourself from the norm. I consider the LGBT flag as a normal flag, and I consider LGBT people like other people. And like other people, they could be used for cheap heat tactics.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 2, 2018 4:29:47 GMT -5
This is all an overreaction to a cheap heat tactic. The Briscos whole gimmick is basically that they're dumb rednecks. The stereotype of a dumb redneck typically aligns to homophobia. Sure, they may also be homophobic in real life. But that's irrelevant to their characters. This would be no different than if New Jack was wrestling in the south and used a confederate flag as a weapon, or an American humping a Canadian flag. Yes, there's different contexts and different histories behind certain flags. But you're getting mad at a character that's supposed to be bad, for doing bad things. No, it's very, very different because you have the Briscoes in real life publicly exposing vile actual hatred, and then it's crossing over into a medium that it has absolutely no place to exist in in 2018. "Cheap Heat" is a cheap way to make you want to see someone get their come-uppens, like insulting a local sports team. Miles of differences between that and continuing to mock a very persecuted, very victimized group of people based solely on how they were born. "Cheap heat" should make you want to see the person get beat, not make the person in the audience regret buying a ticket and feel uncomfortable with a performer. Even if it was just their "character" which, again, we have repeated proof that it isn't, that type of character has no place in the medium of wrestling in 2018. I still think that you're way too sensitive, man. Just cool down. It's behavior like yours that feeds homophobia, because YOU take away yourself from the norm. I consider the LGBT flag as a normal flag, and I consider LGBT people like other people. And like other people, they could be used for cheap heat tactics. You don't get the right to tell people what they're offended by. If it doesn't target you, you have no idea how that feels, nor are you in a position to dictate what someone who is victimized's reaction should be. I also think you should do some research as to where homophobia comes from, and really ask yourself if you're victim-blaming with that post. Please really think about what you're writing here. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 2, 2018 4:31:34 GMT -5
Didn't one of them make some homophobic comments on Twitter a few years ago? Yeah, i guess they're trying to make it their gimmick but f*** them. In Manchester, basically the gay capital of England, they pull that shit. Sections of the crowd left for their match, others turned their backs, EVERYONE joined in a "f*** YOU BRISCOES" chant. The sad thing is I bet they think they're being good heels. This is the wrong city to pull that shit. I'm actually disappointed in Trent Seven for booking them, and I'll never go to a show they're booked on again. Sorry but obviously this effected me. I go to wrestling for an escape, I don't go so my sexuality can be a cheap heel spot. Yeah I refuse to go to shows that have them booked on, or to promotions that have them as champions (given they might not be on a show but still be champions). Also, add me to the 'doesn't support ROH' list. "The Delaware Senate passed a bill yesterday that allows same sex couples to get married. If that makes you happy, then congratulations!!!!!! ... try and teach my kids that there's nothing wrong with that and I'll f***ing shoot you" It looks like that was his entire tweet on the subject. I don't have a problem with Jay not being supportive of homosexuality, it's his opinion and he's allowed to raise his kids how he wants. I can't condone threatening to shoot someone because of a difference of opinion though. It's amazing to me how people can judge someone on a few tweets when all they know of them is what they see on tv. Onto the flag stuff. Did they just use it to choke an opponent? Did they spit on it? Wipe their ass with it? Stomp it? It's hard to get actual heat these days as a heel, with the death of kayfabe and someone getting upset and wanting to boycott or ban a wrestler or promotion because they did something "offensive" I am not going to support a wrestler that uses my sexuality as heeling fodder. It's harder to be a heel these days? Tough. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 4:36:59 GMT -5
This is all an overreaction to a cheap heat tactic. The Briscos whole gimmick is basically that they're dumb rednecks. The stereotype of a dumb redneck typically aligns to homophobia. Sure, they may also be homophobic in real life. But that's irrelevant to their characters. This would be no different than if New Jack was wrestling in the south and used a confederate flag as a weapon, or an American humping a Canadian flag. Yes, there's different contexts and different histories behind certain flags. But you're getting mad at a character that's supposed to be bad, for doing bad things. No, it's very, very different because you have the Briscoes in real life publicly exposing vile actual hatred, and then it's crossing over into a medium that it has absolutely no place to exist in in 2018. "Cheap Heat" is a cheap way to make you want to see someone get their come-uppens, like insulting a local sports team. Miles of differences between that and continuing to mock a very persecuted, very victimized group of people based solely on how they were born. "Cheap heat" should make you want to see the person get beat, not make the person in the audience regret buying a ticket and feel uncomfortable with a performer. Even if it was just their "character" which, again, we have repeated proof that it isn't, that type of character has no place in the medium of wrestling in 2018. I still think that you're way too sensitive, man. Just cool down. It's behavior like yours that feeds homophobia, because YOU take away yourself from the norm. I consider the LGBT flag as a normal flag, and I consider LGBT people like other people. And like other people, they could be used for cheap heat tactics. You don't get the right to tell people what they're offended by. If it doesn't target you, you have no idea how that feels, nor are you in a position to dictate what someone who is victimized's reaction should be. I also think you should do some research as to where homophobia comes from, and really ask yourself if you're victim-blaming with that post. Please really think about what you're writing here. If it happened on a wrestling show. Then it falls under the umbrella of artistic expression. Sure, it might be bad or tasteless art, but it's still art. If they literally beat up someone and choked them with the rainbow flag in real life, that's a different story. You're allowed to not like it. But the idea that it's "too far" or the Briscoes should be banned or boycotted. Is no different than the groups that want the ban sexual content on TV, violence in rap, or "satanism" in heavy metal. It's extreme art, meant to get a reaction and piss you off. In your opinion homophobia may have no place in wrestling because it's the current year. But your opinion doesn't dictate whats allowed in an entire genre. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 2, 2018 4:45:15 GMT -5
No, it's very, very different because you have the Briscoes in real life publicly exposing vile actual hatred, and then it's crossing over into a medium that it has absolutely no place to exist in in 2018. "Cheap Heat" is a cheap way to make you want to see someone get their come-uppens, like insulting a local sports team. Miles of differences between that and continuing to mock a very persecuted, very victimized group of people based solely on how they were born. "Cheap heat" should make you want to see the person get beat, not make the person in the audience regret buying a ticket and feel uncomfortable with a performer. Even if it was just their "character" which, again, we have repeated proof that it isn't, that type of character has no place in the medium of wrestling in 2018. You don't get the right to tell people what they're offended by. If it doesn't target you, you have no idea how that feels, nor are you in a position to dictate what someone who is victimized's reaction should be. I also think you should do some research as to where homophobia comes from, and really ask yourself if you're victim-blaming with that post. Please really think about what you're writing here. If it happened on a wrestling show. Then it falls under the the umblella of artitisc expression. Sure, it might be bad or tasteless art, but it's still art. If they literally beat up someone and choked them with the rainbow flag in real life, thats a different story. You're allowed to not like it. But the idea that it's "too far" or the Briscoes should be banned or boycotted. Is no different than the groups that want the ban sexual content on TV, violence in rap, or "satanism" in heavy metal. It's extreme art, meant to get a reaction and piss you off. In your opinion homophobia may have no place in wrestling because it's the current year. But your opinion doesn't dictate whats allowed in an entire genre. But generating "cheap heat" isn't an art, it's a craft. It's a means of provoking a desired reaction out of people, which the Briscoes have failed in as proven by the reactions they've received for it that took the audience completely out of the suspension of disbelief. It's more comparable to when a stand-up comic goes off the rails with a racist rant or threatening an audience member with graphic sexual abuse. When your art takes place in a live medium, there's an objective element to it regarding the intended reaction that goes beyond if the Briscoes were just strangling each other with rainbow flags in their backyard. You can't compare wrestling as an art to music or TV. It's theater, if anything, because it requires a live audience as part of the creation. Homophobia, like racism or or sort of overt baseless prejudice, has no place in any sort of public exhibition. It's not about "entire genre," it's bigger than wrestling. Please really reexamine what you think you're defending here. |
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Apr 2, 2018 4:49:25 GMT -5
For what it's worth, last night The Briscoes lost, first match on the card, in/out in under 10 minutes. The people that did stick around gave them a massive "DON'T COME BACK" chant as they left.
So hopefully Fight Club has learned from the reaction.
And to the people still not getting it, here's a couple of tweets I found which explain it better than I ever could.
Removed a tweet because of a filtered word displayed ~ Ric
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 5:01:41 GMT -5
Please really reexamine what you think you're defending here. It all comes down to the corny saying, I'm done. "I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" |
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Post by JTG on Apr 2, 2018 5:13:24 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on"
Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 2, 2018 5:17:37 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on" Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists. “Pick a better hill to die on” just means “make a better argument” or find a better reason to attach your point to. |
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Apr 2, 2018 5:19:05 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on" Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists. Yes the people confronting the homophobes and those defending the homophobes are the intolerant ones. Tell me again how it's all my and other LBGT people's fault. I didn't get it the first 2 times. |
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 2, 2018 5:21:42 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on" Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists. People don't want anyone who isn't socially progressive to be part of the business. Deal with it, or stop watching if that bothers you. |
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 2, 2018 5:49:47 GMT -5
Are the Briscoes homophobic in real life...from the sound of it yes. Are they terrible people...most likely yes. But this is wrestling, people get offended by stuff and it gets the heels heat.
I know you don't want to hear this argument because it effects you personally but things like this get people heat. Watch Bubba Ray Dudley give a promo in ECW in 1998 and tell me that didn't offend people. Watch Muhammad Hassan do his schtick in 2005 and tell me that didn't offend people. Watch HBK hump the Canadian flag and tell me that didn't offend people. Goldust in 1995 was a much more offensive character than any of those and he gets praised today as a groundbreaking icon of the Attitude Era. Bret Hart ripped the US in his promos in 1997 and it's considered the best work of his career. The Nation of Domination was a black panther type stable and it's remembered fondly. Billy and Chuck had a fake gay wedding and it got national news.
Wrestling has always pushed the envelope. Now it sounds like the Briscoes pushed a button that turned people off instead of got them heel heat but it doesn't sound like what they did was out of line with what wrestling has been doing since Gorgeous George was throwing bobby pins into the crowd. I'm also not saying that you should be ok with what they did. It's well within your rights to be offended and never spend money or time on them again but I don't see this as any worse than watching Trish bark like a dog or the Unamericans threaten to burn the American flag.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 2, 2018 6:15:52 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on" Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists. So, people being upset by homophobia is why homophobia happens, and intolerance of intolerance is the biggest intolerance? These are some terrible hot takes and this "I'm not upset by this so you're inherently wrong for being" stuff is crap. The fact you want to pivot away from the discussion of why these homophobes are bad into "Yeah but sometimes gay people are also bad" isn't a good look at all, you're sort of coming out for the homophobes here with lots of victim blaming and moral relativism. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 2, 2018 6:40:20 GMT -5
All those tweets are showing real intolerance from those people, telling people who dont think like they do to "pick a hill to die on" Like there are homophobic c***s, some homosexuals are also among the biggest c***s on earth, because they are extremists. How dare people be angry at people defending the actions of someone that views them as less than human? Those monsters. People who don't face adversity for being who they are, who don't have to deal with abuse from people like Jay Briscoe are the real victims here. I forget this when I'm called horrible things by knuckledraggers and I'm left feeling about an inch tall, when people look at me like I'm a piece of crap the moment they find out about my sexuality, I shouldn't get offended, because that makes me as bad, or worse! |
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Apr 2, 2018 6:41:21 GMT -5
I don't have much to add here other than The Briscoe's are probably some of the most wasted what could have been talents in the history of the Indies because their attitudes are friggen poison. Proud Members of The Teddy Hart Hall of Shame.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Apr 2, 2018 7:01:21 GMT -5
Are the Briscoes homophobic in real life...from the sound of it yes. Are they terrible people...most likely yes. But this is wrestling, people get offended by stuff and it gets the heels heat. I know you don't want to hear this argument because it effects you personally but things like this get people heat. Watch Bubba Ray Dudley give a promo in ECW in 1998 and tell me that didn't offend people. Watch Muhammad Hassan do his schtick in 2005 and tell me that didn't offend people. Watch HBK hump the Canadian flag and tell me that didn't offend people. Goldust in 1995 was a much more offensive character than any of those and he gets praised today as a groundbreaking icon of the Attitude Era. Bret Hart ripped the US in his promos in 1997 and it's considered the best work of his career. The Nation of Domination was a black panther type stable and it's remembered fondly. Billy and Chuck had a fake gay wedding and it got national news. Wrestling has always pushed the envelope. Now it sounds like the Briscoes pushed a button that turned people off instead of got them heel heat but it doesn't sound like what they did was out of line with what wrestling has been doing since Gorgeous George was throwing bobby pins into the crowd. I'm also not saying that you should be ok with what they did. It's well within your rights to be offended and never spend money or time on them again but I don't see this as any worse than watching Trish bark like a dog or the Unamericans threaten to burn the American flag. I get what you're saying but there's a reason why all those examples were 10/20/30 years ago. The Nation of Domination wouldn't happen today, neither would the DX parody of them. Sandow did a lame ripoff of Gorgeous George in TNA and it was rightly universally panned. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 7:03:45 GMT -5
They because too obsessed with their redneck characters
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 7:58:03 GMT -5
No, it's very, very different because you have the Briscoes in real life publicly exposing vile actual hatred, and then it's crossing over into a medium that it has absolutely no place to exist in in 2018. "Cheap Heat" is a cheap way to make you want to see someone get their come-uppens, like insulting a local sports team. Miles of differences between that and continuing to mock a very persecuted, very victimized group of people based solely on how they were born. "Cheap heat" should make you want to see the person get beat, not make the person in the audience regret buying a ticket and feel uncomfortable with a performer. Even if it was just their "character" which, again, we have repeated proof that it isn't, that type of character has no place in the medium of wrestling in 2018. You don't get the right to tell people what they're offended by. If it doesn't target you, you have no idea how that feels, nor are you in a position to dictate what someone who is victimized's reaction should be. I also think you should do some research as to where homophobia comes from, and really ask yourself if you're victim-blaming with that post. Please really think about what you're writing here. If it happened on a wrestling show. Then it falls under the umbrella of artistic expression. Sure, it might be bad or tasteless art, but it's still art. If they literally beat up someone and choked them with the rainbow flag in real life, that's a different story. You're allowed to not like it. But the idea that it's "too far" or the Briscoes should be banned or boycotted. Is no different than the groups that want the ban sexual content on TV, violence in rap, or "satanism" in heavy metal. It's extreme art, meant to get a reaction and piss you off. In your opinion homophobia may have no place in wrestling because it's the current year. But your opinion doesn't dictate whats allowed in an entire genre. I would agree with this argument in most circumstances but Jay Briscoe was on thin ice as it were on this subject. It takes on a whole different context when a performer has expressed views as extreme in the past as he has. It crosses a line when not only does a performer think like he does, but now he's pulling an audience member that was the subject of his ire into the show. It's got to be uncomfortable for the LGBT members of the audience to play show business with the guy who has said what he said. You can debate what is and isn't a work here, and you can call it artistic expression, but art is open to scrutiny as well and the response to the art is valid. Everyone has a right to an opinion as Jay has to perform it, but it would do art a disservice to throw your hands up and say "it's art, my hands are tied here." |
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